searchingforthebestanswer Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 (edited) I am hoping to find some beneficial advise as to how I should approach the Collection Agency to delete the derogatory tradelines off of my CR.Back in September of 2005 I had visited an emergency room in the state of Virgina for an injury I had sustained. I had insurance at the time and several of the providers that saw me in the ER were paid by my insurance company for their charges. There was one provider (the doctor who saw me) that was out-of-network and wasnt covered by my insurance company. During this time my permenant residency was in the state of Maryland, and since then I have changed my residency to West Virginia and now the State of Virginia. Just recently I discovered these collection accounts on my CR. There are two accounts open for the same date of service. The accounts that are open are an $8 account from the X-ray provider, and a $930 account open for the doctor that saw me (out-of-network). Both accounts are listed on my CR by the same CA. It is now March of 2011 and it would seem that the Statute of Limitations has expired on both of these accounts. My CR shows that the date of 1st delinquency was 09/2005 for both accounts. The collections were not opened until 05/2006 and 06/2006.I am looking for the most sensible approach to getting these accounts deleted off of my CR. I am not opposed to paying the amount owed, but I will not pay to have this account linger on my CR. My questions for this forum are as follows:1. Which state should I use to determine whether or not the statute of limitations on this debt has expired? Services were rendered while my permanant address was in MD, but I have currently been living in VA for about 1 year.2. Should I approach the CA with a DV, PFD, or a SOL letter?3. Should I dispute with one CRA and report any successful results to the others, or dispute with all three initially?4. Would anyone have any negotiation tactics for a PFD or an SOL letter?Thank you! Edited March 25, 2011 by searchingforthebestanswer changed title Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
searchingforthebestanswer Posted March 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal Jordan Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) This is a tougher one to determine which state applies buy my guess would be Virginia as that is where you got the service and where you live now. While it's a little bit tough to figure out just which state's SOL applies it doesn't really matter to the end result because regardless of which State they would try and sue you in they're all beyond the SOL. And they can not sue you. As long as you haven't re-aged this thing you're gtg on the SOL.Virginia is 5 years and Maryland is 3 years. So the SOL expired in Virginia on 09/2010 I would write a SOL letter first. If they won't budge atleast you have the peace of mind knowing they cant sue you and September of 2012 it will be gone off of your reports.If you just can't wait and you can't get it gone with the SOL letter (which I would definitely try first) You have a lot of power for a pay for delete. Basicly they either take your pfd offer and get paid or do not take it and get nothing (I would also offer something like 25-50% of the total too at first to see if they'd bite but only if you wanna try the pfd route).One member here had real good success with writing a letter that basicly said if you sue me you can't win in court but I can win against you for violations and he said they removed it (check the afni thread). Edited March 25, 2011 by Hal Jordan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
searchingforthebestanswer Posted March 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Hal Jordan, Thank you for the response. Those were my orignial thoughts as well. I just want to make sure that I am doing the right thing before I send out any letters to the CA. Would anyone happen to be familiar with statute of limitations law regarding this matter?What about HIPAA letter? Has anyone had any luck just calling up the OC (in my case the doctors office) and negotiate a PFD with them? The CA is reporting the tradeline on my CR but I am not sure who owns the debt. Please do share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal Jordan Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) Hal Jordan, Thank you for the response. Those were my orignial thoughts as well. I just want to make sure that I am doing the right thing before I send out any letters to the CA. Would anyone happen to be familiar with statute of limitations law regarding this matter?What about HIPAA letter? Has anyone had any luck just calling up the OC (in my case the doctors office) and negotiate a PFD with them? The CA is reporting the tradeline on my CR but I am not sure who owns the debt. Please do share.Like I said. The statute of limitations in your state has expired. They can't sue you that is the law. The OC can still try and collect the debt from you but they just can't sue you to get it. For example. You go in for service and they say you owe us $950 for some service we provided you 5 1/2 years ago. You say..."uh uh" that's beyond the statute of limitations for law that you can sue me for and they say.. while that may be true you will not receive any services from us or our affiliates until this is paid in full.They can't sue you but they can ask you for payment for the next 50 years if they want.HIPPAA will most certainly not apply here unless they violated your rights somehow by either providing information to the collection agency about other services you received that you paid for or seperate exclussive services not related to your bill.HIPAA definitely allows the Hospital to provide the CA with all the information regarding your debt. Hipaa law just states it has to be the minimum amount of information necessary. Which according to law is the who what when why where and how. Like Dr Johnson gave you an MRI on 05/01/05 of which costs $2000. Your insurance great western paid $1500 and you left $500 unpaid of which is why they are seeking it and the amount they are seeking. They can then add in legal recovery fees, interest etc. If they provide the CA and or you with a statement with this information it's perfectly 100% legal for them to do so. IF they include in the statement that you had your tonsils taken out by Dr Williams on 09/01/2001 and paid your bill in full and gave that to the CA then it's a hipaa violation.You can't get any money from Hipaa violations. And you can't sue for it. All You can do is just report it and then the government decides on the fine the hospital must pay. Typically minimum is $100 and max is $25K (which is very unlikely) for an infraction that the hospital does without purposely trying to violate your rights.I researched the hell out of this in the last week because of something personal I had going on so I'm sure on this.Now again. The CA is reporting to your CR's. So send them (the CA) a SOL letter and see what happens. That would be the next step for sure for me.If it doesn't work you can then discuss a PFD. At which point I would try and work something out with the OC. I did this twice last week actually and had success with both accounts. I paid the OC in full in exchange for them calling the CA and recalling the debt and asking the CA to delete the info from my credit reports. I also got it in writing. having them write that upon receipt of payment they would recall the debt from the CA and instruct the ca to remove all information regarding the debt from my credit reports.If you want to pay it.. by all means. Pay it. It would jsut be advisable to make a deal with the OC. Let them know you know it's outside the SOL and you will have some serious bargaining power. If it were me though I would try the SOL letter with the CA first and who knows.. they may just go ahead and remove the freaking thing with no further action required on your part.As long as you don't agree to a payment plan (if you do make sure you get a signed contract detailing a PFD) or admit that it belongs to you you won't reactivate the SOL. Edited March 25, 2011 by Hal Jordan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
searchingforthebestanswer Posted March 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 I just sent the CA an SOL letter regarding both accounts while simultaneously disputing the tradelines with the CRAs and the CA has already verified that the account is current and remains with experian. I have not recieved investigation results from the other two CRAs. To me, this sounds like a violation by the CA for false representation of the legal status of the debt. The CA has not even responded to the SOL letter yet. I sent the letter on monday 3/28, disputed with all three CRA's on 3/28, they recieved the letter on 3/29 (confirmed delivery) and has already responded to experian by 3/29(the same day). My guess is that they had already responded to experian before they had even recieved the SOL letter.Has anyone ever come accross a situation like this? Because they verified both accounts, it has dropped my experian credit score by nearly 60 points, this is ludicrous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal Jordan Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 It would be very tough to argue they are violating reporting based of the dv for two reasons. First, They can argue that they already validated the debt initially when they received the collection (like in the first 5 days of receiving of it) and that they already sent you your letter explaining you have 30 days to ask for validation etc.Second they verified the same day the letter was received. It's definitely plausable to assume they reported before they received and processed your letter.[15 USC 1692e] § 807(5) of the FDCPA states that a collector may not threaten action they cannot or will not take. Collectors can't threaten to sue or file charges against you, garnish wages, take property, cause job loss, or ruin your credit when the collector cannot or does not intend to take the action. So if they threaten you in any way with any of these types of actions they have just violated the FDCPA.It is beyond the statute of limitations and you've now let them know that you know it's beyond the SOL. You've just taken their teeth from them. They are completely powerless to do anything to you now about the debt. The letter basically lets them know that they can't do anything to you in court and win... but that you can win against them in court. Usually these get deleted at this point. It may get sold to another CA down the road though.. A PFD is a good option now.. but start out at like 25%. Wording a letter to state that they will get nothing if they don't accept your terms as they can not sue you, garnish you or have any other legal means to make you pay has quite a bit of power.Ultimately it's like saying you can either get this amount and delete it or you can leave it on there and get nothing.Let's see how the SOL letter pans out for you.Don't get discouraged you are still very early in this phase and haven't even entered into the negotiating part yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12o'clocksomewhere Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Does anyone know the SOL for medical collections in Arizona? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal Jordan Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 A medical collection is a "written agreement". The SOL would start at the Date of the first missed payment. And in Arizona it's 6 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest usctrojanalum Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Medical bills fall under contracts for purposes of SOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12o'clocksomewhere Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Thanks, that makes sense since they make you sign an agreement before services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest usctrojanalum Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 And even if you don't sign an agreement in like an emergency situation, the agreement to pay for the services is implied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal Jordan Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Medical bills fall under contracts for purposes of SOL.So a written contract is not the same thing as a written agreement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest usctrojanalum Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Not all contracts are written though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
searchingforthebestanswer Posted April 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 It seems that the CA might not budge with SOL letter.Would anyone happen to have a successful PFD letter?When sending a PFD letter, which might be more effective for getting the tradelines deleted off of my CR, sending it to the OC or the CA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal Jordan Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 (edited) Not all contracts are written though.Right... but no one referenced or mentioned "un"written contracts. I believe the terms written agreement and written contract are synonomous for this point. I was just quoting http://www.fair-debt-collection.com/SOL-by-State.html Kansas Statutes of Limitation Written agreement, contract or promise: 5 years.Expressed or implied but not written contracts, obligations or liabilities: 3 years.Relief on the grounds of fraud: 2 years. (I know we were talking about AZ but I just picked Kansas as that's where I'm from)I think you're just splitting hairs with this one man. But I could be wrong (it's happened before). You're the expert here so I'll defer to you since I've never been to Law school. Edited April 1, 2011 by Hal Jordan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal Jordan Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 It seems that the CA might not budge with SOL letter.Would anyone happen to have a successful PFD letter?When sending a PFD letter, which might be more effective for getting the tradelines deleted off of my CR, sending it to the OC or the CA?Did they ignore it or respond?If you wanna go PFD you could always start off offering them 25% with a "You're beyond the SOL on this alleged debt and while I dispute this debt in it's entirety I am willing to pay $xx to save us both time and trouble on the condition that you delete everything you've posted to my credit reports and consider the alleged debt as a paid. If you do not accept this offer I am more than willing to wait the small amount of time remaining before this erronious item automaticlly falls off of my credit report. So essentially you can take my offer and receive $XX or you can deny it and receive nothing. blah blah blah..http://credit.about.com/od/debtcollection/a/payfordelete.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest usctrojanalum Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Thanks' date=' that makes sense since they make you sign an agreement before services.[/quote']And even if you don't sign an agreement in like an emergency situation, the agreement to pay for the services is implied.I think you're just splitting hairs with this one man. But I could be wrong (it's happened before). You're the expert here so I'll defer to you since I've never been to Law school.I think you missed my second post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
searchingforthebestanswer Posted April 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 "QUOTE Hal Jordan"Did they ignore it or respond?If you wanna go PFD you could always start off offering them 25% with a "You're beyond the SOL on this alleged debt and while I dispute this debt in it's entirety I am willing to pay $xx to save us both time and trouble on the condition that you delete everything you've posted to my credit reports and consider the alleged debt as a paid. If you do not accept this offer I am more than willing to wait the small amount of time remaining before this erronious item automaticlly falls off of my credit report. So essentially you can take my offer and receive $XX or you can deny it and receive nothing. blah blah blah.."It has been less than a week since sending the CA the SOL letter, so they may still be in the process of investigating the accounts and drafting a response. I just want to make sure I have my ducks in a row if, and when they respond. Like I said earlier, they have already verified the trade lines with Experian and Transunion but not with Equifax. Also as stated before, "Because they verified both accounts, it has dropped my experian credit score by nearly 60 points, this is ludicrous! " Today I checked my Experian score and it has now went up 79 points, and the only difference noted on my report is that the consumer has disputed the account. My thoughts are that the CA notified Experian about my SOL/dispute of the debt. It also looks like the CA may have realized they jumped the gun with verifying the accounts before recieving the SOL letter, but I am still not sure why my score would have increased 79 points. By no means am I complaining, just a little skeptical. I was a very concerned before on why it would have dropped 60 points since this is an old account and no new activity has been conducted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willingtocope Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Just a word of caution....they CAN sue. And if unless you show up, and raise the SOL as an affirmative defense, and the judge agrees, they CAN get a judgement against you.Only in WI an MO do the SOL laws include a "statute of repose" which means the debt is null and void when the SOL expires. In all other states, the SOL only means that if you fight it, they can't use the courts to take your money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credithis Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Depending on the original State's laws moving might have 'tolled' the SOL. Florida's laws are bad in this regard. Might wanna check first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal Jordan Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 I think you missed my second post.You are correct sir!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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