Im making payments, collector keeps hounding me

[clearit]

I hope you can help me with this situation. About 3 years ago I was sued by a finance company for the remainder of debt after my car was repossessed and auctioned off. I agreed to make payments of $50.00 per month to the collector that was hired by the finance company (I'm only assuming they hired him because I make my checks out to the finance company and not his company). Like clockwork, I make my payment every thirty days. Here is the problem; every 2 or three payments I make, I keep getting an email from this collector guy that states we need to meet. I know he's just fishing for assets or employment info to lean on, attach, or sell in order to pay my debt to his client. He doesn't say much more in his email but that we need to meet and talk; however one time he did say if I don't contact him he will be forced to take legal action. I find this emailing thing harassing; does he have the right to do this? How can I stop his pursuit? I live in Arizona, in case that makes a difference in your answer.

[Prosay]

I hope you can help me with this situation. About 3 years ago I was sued by a finance company for the remainder of debt after my car was repossessed and auctioned off. I agreed to make payments of $50.00 per month to the collector that was hired by the finance company (I'm only assuming they hired him because I make my checks out to the finance company and not his company). Like clockwork, I make my payment every thirty days. Here is the problem; every 2 or three payments I make, I keep getting an email from this collector guy that states we need to meet. I know he's just fishing for assets or employment info to lean on, attach, or sell in order to pay my debt to his client. He doesn't say much more in his email but that we need to meet and talk; however one time he did say if I don't contact him he will be forced to take legal action. I find this emailing thing harassing; does he have the right to do this? How can I stop his pursuit? I live in Arizona, in case that makes a difference in your answer.

First thing I would do is advise this guy that in the future, he must communicate with you by FIRST CLASS US MAIL ONLY, and CEASE ALL FUTURE CORRESPONDENCE BY E-MAIL at the e-mail address he has on file.

Secondly if you are making your payments as agreed, advise him in writing by Certified mail, return receipt requested, that in view of your honoring the payment agreement, that you consider his threats to take legal action to be harassment, and that by threatening to take any legal action which he cannot take or does not intend to take is a violation of the FAIR DEBT COLLECTION PRACTICE ACT, which provides up to $1000.00( PER INCIDENT) penalty in your favor.

LET THE JERK KNOW that all of your payments have been made as agreed and you intend to honor your agreement until the matter is paid in full.

Close by saying " you have 15 days to reply, explaining why you are continually harassing me with your threats of "taking legal action", or I intend to take legal action against you personally.

You are directed to reply within 15 days and state your intentions. Either reply, or I reserve the right to commence litigation.

I will ,without hesitation, submit a complaint to those entities listed below.

You have been advised, govern your actions accordingly.

Sincerely yours,

____________________ ( your name)

REGARDING ACCOUNT NUMBER

___________________________

CC. Attorney General, State of (your state)Department of Consumer Affairs

CC. Federal Trade Commission Complaints Department( online and by US Mail)

CC BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU, Department of Consumer Affairs

PS. Have you saved any of his e-mails ? if so, make copies and send them to him as evidence. Otherwise, save any future e-mails you might receive for evidence of the harassment as well as the fact that he has violated your demands to "cease all correspondence by e-mail"

[clearit]

Thank you Prosay! I take it that what he is doing is highly unethical and against the law based on your response to my question.

I did keep a lot of the emails that he sent me, and I can make copies copies of them. :0)

[Flyingifr]

Try this on for size:

"Look, fool - you didn't like it when I didn't make payments and you don't like it when I do. Make up your damned mind."

[Achilles]

Thank you Prosay! I take it that what he is doing is highly unethical and against the law based on your response to my question.

I did keep a lot of the emails that he sent me, and I can make copies copies of them. :0)

Or take it that he doesnt know anything.

Take a look at your contract, they can pull it anytime they want. They do have to send it to their legal department, which will then take it out of his hands. He doesnt want to lose the account, but after a certain amount of time he will get sick of you and send it to them. They will then request the judge to garnish your pay.

The collector himself may not know where you work, but their legal depart sure as hell can find out. They pay to have access to a database like "One click employment search" which will automatically fill in your employment information in whatever program they use. It is linked to how you pay your social security taxes, and also some other databases from companies which do taxes, ect. They can tell everything youve ever done, and it costs them about a buck.

The only reason you are getting this lucky is because the system within the lawfirm is playing in your favor. Not all lawfirms work like this, in fact, most lawfirms will let the post-settlement collector keep the file regardless of if they have to take your assets or not. In fact, they encourage them to follow up on new jobs and garnish people. You simply got lucky. Deal with his crap, and whatever you do, dont piss him off.

Also, he is not violating the FDCPA, people love to make up all the crazy ideas of a law which lets them grab lawfirms by the balls, but it doesnt work like that.

The only time it really works is when you have already settled in full, or when they call before the hours they are allowed to call. Otherwise, the rules have exceptions for everything. FOR INSTANCE: They can call your work without an issue at all, because the FDCPA states that they only are barred from calling when they themselves determine the work does not allow incoming calls. So, if you can take ANY incoming calls, they can call you. All they cant do is leave messages, and only then if they do it more than once.

If you somehow gave them your work number as personal number, you are responsible for this, not them. Their programs record the order and time of information which is entered, and so if the file comes in with your work number, they are off the hook. The programs are specifically set up so that records cannot be deleted, and any information which can be changed is also recorded. They record what it was, and what it was changed to.

So pretty much, dont count on the FDCPA getting you anything unless they call you after you have settled the entire debt, and even then, only when it has been reported to the credit companies.

Dont risk screwing with the lawyers, the debt collection agencies will give you a bigger break than any Judge, seeing as the Judges never give an inch.

Just dont piss the collector off, or they will go back to the Judge and garnish you. You got lucky with this payment plan, dont blow it.

[Prosay]

Or take it that he doesnt know anything.

Take a look at your contract, they can pull it anytime they want. They do have to send it to their legal department, which will then take it out of his hands. He doesnt want to lose the account, but after a certain amount of time he will get sick of you and send it to them. They will then request the judge to garnish your pay.

The collector himself may not know where you work, but their legal depart sure as hell can find out. They pay to have access to a database like "One click employment search" which will automatically fill in your employment information in whatever program they use. It is linked to how you pay your social security taxes, and also some other databases from companies which do taxes, ect. They can tell everything youve ever done, and it costs them about a buck.

The only reason you are getting this lucky is because the system within the lawfirm is playing in your favor. Not all lawfirms work like this, in fact, most lawfirms will let the post-settlement collector keep the file regardless of if they have to take your assets or not. In fact, they encourage them to follow up on new jobs and garnish people. You simply got lucky. Deal with his crap, and whatever you do, dont piss him off.

Also, he is not violating the FDCPA, people love to make up all the crazy ideas of a law which lets them grab lawfirms by the balls, but it doesnt work like that.

The only time it really works is when you have already settled in full, or when they call before the hours they are allowed to call. Otherwise, the rules have exceptions for everything. FOR INSTANCE: They can call your work without an issue at all, because the FDCPA states that they only are barred from calling when they themselves determine the work does not allow incoming calls. So, if you can take ANY incoming calls, they can call you. All they cant do is leave messages, and only then if they do it more than once.

If you somehow gave them your work number as personal number, you are responsible for this, not them. Their programs record the order and time of information which is entered, and so if the file comes in with your work number, they are off the hook. The programs are specifically set up so that records cannot be deleted, and any information which can be changed is also recorded. They record what it was, and what it was changed to.

So pretty much, dont count on the FDCPA getting you anything unless they call you after you have settled the entire debt, and even then, only when it has been reported to the credit companies.

Dont risk screwing with the lawyers, the debt collection agencies will give you a bigger break than any Judge, seeing as the Judges never give an inch.

Just dont piss the collector off, or they will go back to the Judge and garnish you. You got lucky with this payment plan, dont blow it.

Who cares about "pissing them off" ? They should be more concerned about getting "pissed on".

No one is required to be harassed by anyone...collectors or LAWYERS..

I MEAN AFTER ALL, THERE'S ALWAYS "EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS, PANIC ATTACKS, LOSS OF CONSORTIUM, LOSS OF SLEEP, HAVING TO TAKE MEDICATION FOR YOUR NERVES, SINCE YOUR DOCTOR TOLD YOU THAT YOUR NERVE PROBLEMS WERE MORE THAN LIKELY CAUSED BY ALL THE HARASSMENT.. See where I"m going with this ?

[Methuss]

Did you get the payment plan in writing? And I don't mean e-mail... but a signed and countersigned agreement?

e-mail is inadmissible as evidence if all you have is a print-out. You have to have an affidavit from an IT employee swearing it is a true copy of the data on the server it came from otherwise it will be defeated easily. All they have to say is anyone with word processing software could have typed it up. *and yes I have seen that exact defense used in court to quash printed emails*

If you have a written agreement (even better if it was filed with the court), then Prosay is actually correct. It's an FDCPA violation and the collector can be sued for $1000 plus court costs. The FDCPA is a strict liability statute so you get the $1000 plus court costs just if you show they violated the law, regardless of what their intent was. If you can prove actual damages, that can be added on to the complaint as recovery sought.

If you do not have a written agreement, then the judgment stands alone as the evidence of what you owe and the collector would simply be taking payments toward the balance.

How much was this judgment anyways? Are you aware there is statutory interest on unpaid judgments? The annual percentage depends on the State, but in Arizona it's 10%. Your payments go toward the accumulated interest first...

Edited March 23, 2011 by Methuss

[jasen]

...

[Collector-like typing detected]

[Methuss]

[Collector-like typing detected]

Maybe, but only if he's doing it from his house.

[Flyingifr]

Or take it that he doesnt know anything.

Take a look at your contract, they can pull it anytime they want.

Not true - the contract says nothing about it. FCRA does, and they can pull a CRA file to "assist in collecting" but cannot overdo ir - that is called "file poisoning" an dthere is case law about that.

They do have to send it to their legal department, which will then take it out of his hands. He doesnt want to lose the account, but after a certain amount of time he will get sick of you and send it to them.

Not necessarily so. In most collection departments as long as you are paying they will try to hold the account. Why take someone who is paying and send them to a BK lawyer?

They will then request the judge to garnish your pay.

They better get a Judgment first, and observe all the legal niceties (like service of the summons) along the way.

The collector himself may not know where you work, but their legal depart sure as hell can find out. They pay to have access to a database like "One click employment search" which will automatically fill in your employment information in whatever program they use. It is linked to how you pay your social security taxes, and also some other databases from companies which do taxes, ect. They can tell everything youve ever done, and it costs them about a buck.

Hogwash. No one outside the Social Security Administration and IRS has access to how you pay your Social Security taxes, and a company that does taxes and then shares this information with private collectors would be in some MAJOR trouble with the IRS.

quote]The only reason you are getting this lucky is because the system within the lawfirm is playing in your favor. Not all lawfirms work like this, in fact, most lawfirms will let the post-settlement collector keep the file regardless of if they have to take your assets or not. In fact, they encourage them to follow up on new jobs and garnish people. You simply got lucky. Deal with his crap, and whatever you do, dont piss him off.

[Methuss]

Hogwash. No one outside the Social Security Administration and IRS has access to how you pay your Social Security taxes, and a company that does taxes and then shares this information with private collectors would be in some MAJOR trouble with the IRS.

I seem to recall reading recently about two credit-bureau like companies that have started collecting actual payroll data and making individual salary history reports....one place is called "The Work Number" if I recall.

They don't do it by collecting SS or tax info, but by collecting credit applications and payroll data from participating employers and creditors.

[Methuss]

Correction. Rapid Reporting (part of Equifax) out of Fort Worth, Texas can pull income history from the IRS and the SSA.

[Flyingifr]

Correction. Rapid Reporting (part of Equifax) out of Fort Worth, Texas can pull income history from the IRS and the SSA.

Only with the consumer's written consent. I am going under the supposition that in the OP's case there is no written consent.

[lheart]

The only time it really works is when you have already settled in full, or when they call before the hours they are allowed to call. Otherwise, the rules have exceptions for everything. FOR INSTANCE: They can call your work without an issue at all, because the FDCPA states that they only are barred from calling when they themselves determine the work does not allow incoming calls. So, if you can take ANY incoming calls, they can call you. All they cant do is leave messages, and only then if they do it more than once.

If you somehow gave them your work number as personal number, you are responsible for this, not them. Their programs record the order and time of information which is entered, and so if the file comes in with your work number, they are off the hook. The programs are specifically set up so that records cannot be deleted, and any information which can be changed is also recorded. They record what it was, and what it was changed to.

I second Flyingifr's Hogwash. I have a check to prove that you only need to inform them that you are not allowed to receive collection calls at work. After they have been informed, it is an FDCPA violation, no matter where they got the number.

I hope you try to collect from me. I will school you on FDCPA violations.

[jasen]

Maybe, but only if he's doing it from his house.

Could be on a business-class DSL/Broadband connection. Sometimes it's hard to tell just going by the DNS name.

Or, he's at home.

[clearit]

Try this on for size:

"Look, fool - you didn't like it when I didn't make payments and you don't like it when I do. Make up your damned mind."

This is a great thought, I was thinking something along these lines but was afraid to say it.

[clearit]

Or take it that he doesnt know anything.

Take a look at your contract, they can pull it anytime they want. They do have to send it to their legal department, which will then take it out of his hands. He doesnt want to lose the account, but after a certain amount of time he will get sick of you and send it to them. They will then request the judge to garnish your pay.

The collector himself may not know where you work, but their legal depart sure as hell can find out. They pay to have access to a database like "One click employment search" which will automatically fill in your employment information in whatever program they use. It is linked to how you pay your social security taxes, and also some other databases from companies which do taxes, ect. They can tell everything youve ever done, and it costs them about a buck.

The only reason you are getting this lucky is because the system within the lawfirm is playing in your favor. Not all lawfirms work like this, in fact, most lawfirms will let the post-settlement collector keep the file regardless of if they have to take your assets or not. In fact, they encourage them to follow up on new jobs and garnish people. You simply got lucky. Deal with his crap, and whatever you do, dont piss him off.

Also, he is not violating the FDCPA, people love to make up all the crazy ideas of a law which lets them grab lawfirms by the balls, but it doesnt work like that.

The only time it really works is when you have already settled in full, or when they call before the hours they are allowed to call. Otherwise, the rules have exceptions for everything. FOR INSTANCE: They can call your work without an issue at all, because the FDCPA states that they only are barred from calling when they themselves determine the work does not allow incoming calls. So, if you can take ANY incoming calls, they can call you. All they cant do is leave messages, and only then if they do it more than once.

If you somehow gave them your work number as personal number, you are responsible for this, not them. Their programs record the order and time of information which is entered, and so if the file comes in with your work number, they are off the hook. The programs are specifically set up so that records cannot be deleted, and any information which can be changed is also recorded. They record what it was, and what it was changed to.

So pretty much, dont count on the FDCPA getting you anything unless they call you after you have settled the entire debt, and even then, only when it has been reported to the credit companies.

Dont risk screwing with the lawyers, the debt collection agencies will give you a bigger break than any Judge, seeing as the Judges never give an inch.

Just dont piss the collector off, or they will go back to the Judge and garnish you. You got lucky with this payment plan, dont blow it.

Wow! I was really under the impression that when you are making a payment every 30 days that they couldn't legally bother me; but apparently that is not true by what you are saying here. Am I understanding you correctly that they can still pursue me even tho I am making monthly payments?

[clearit]

Who cares about "pissing them off" ? They should be more concerned about getting "pissed on".

No one is required to be harassed by anyone...collectors or LAWYERS..

I MEAN AFTER ALL, THERE'S ALWAYS "EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS, PANIC ATTACKS, LOSS OF CONSORTIUM, LOSS OF SLEEP, HAVING TO TAKE MEDICATION FOR YOUR NERVES, SINCE YOUR DOCTOR TOLD YOU THAT YOUR NERVE PROBLEMS WERE MORE THAN LIKELY CAUSED BY ALL THE HARASSMENT.. See where I"m going with this ?

Yes, I'm getting the picture... and that's really how I feel a lot of the time.

[clearit]

Did you get the payment plan in writing? And I don't mean e-mail... but a signed and countersigned agreement?

e-mail is inadmissible as evidence if all you have is a print-out. You have to have an affidavit from an IT employee swearing it is a true copy of the data on the server it came from otherwise it will be defeated easily. All they have to say is anyone with word processing software could have typed it up. *and yes I have seen that exact defense used in court to quash printed emails*

If you have a written agreement (even better if it was filed with the court), then Prosay is actually correct. It's an FDCPA violation and the collector can be sued for $1000 plus court costs. The FDCPA is a strict liability statute so you get the $1000 plus court costs just if you show they violated the law, regardless of what their intent was. If you can prove actual damages, that can be added on to the complaint as recovery sought.

If you do not have a written agreement, then the judgment stands alone as the evidence of what you owe and the collector would simply be taking payments toward the balance.

How much was this judgment anyways? Are you aware there is statutory interest on unpaid judgments? The annual percentage depends on the State, but in Arizona it's 10%. Your payments go toward the accumulated interest first...

No, they never offered anything in writing but I did. I offered the payment plan and the collector accepted the terms but not in writing just verbal and with an indication in an email. He said in an email that his client would not take anymore legal action as long as they were receiving monthly payments. However he also stated in the same email that the payment would have to be more than $50 each month. I have been making these $50 payments every month for the past 3 years.

[clearit]

Thank you all for your input; it has been a lesson indeed. I have inform this guy several times in the past that $50 is all I can afford at this time and that going bankrupt was the only other solution but that hasn't seemed to effect his determination at all.