Does a collector know my number if I call their extension?

[BrokeIn2011]

As my credit card past due collection troubles are growing (due to losing my job and the recession), I have an aggressive collector on my tail, and it is a collector that has started calling my brother (we share a house, but have our own separate landline telephones). My brother is very upset that he is getting daily calls and voicemails from one collector asking for me, so needless to say, this is causing a lot of tension between my brother and I as of late. Yet my brother gave me the toll free telephone number and an extension of the person I need to talk to.

Since I know that when you call a toll free number, the telephone number calling the toll free number does not have blocking capabilities, yet I was wondering if I call such a number and then dial an extension, does that person still have the capability to see the number of where the call is originating from, since their telephone system has to transfer the call to the extension? In my case, I plan to call from my own home telephone number.

Since I do not want to upset my brother any further, I want to be able to call the collection company, tell them that the person they are looking for is not at this number, this person can only be reached on phone number xxx-xxx-xxxx, and please do not call this number xxx-xxx-xxxx again. I know that my brother can do this from his own telephone, but he is pretty upset with me already and I do not have access to his phone. Yet I need to try to do what I can to stop this collector from calling my brother.

[BV80]

Your brother can send a C & D letter. You can do the same. Send them CMRRR, and the agency will have no excuse if they continue to call.

[jq26]

They will capture your number if you call without blocking your number.

BV is correct. You can send a C&D and calls should stop. If they do not, then ding them for FDCPA violations.

[formerpara]

Call blocking doesn't work for 800 numbers because they pay for the call so even if you have an unpublished number the 800 number gets it. I learned the hard way years ago and NEVER call them back from a number I don't want them to have.

[BV80]

According to the Telephone Consumer Protection Act, "captured" numbers are not considered express consent. Yes, they can capture the number, but they can't legally claim you gave them permission to call as a result.

"However, if a caller's number is "captured" by a Caller ID or an ANI device without notice to the residential telephone subscriber, the caller cannot be considered to have given an invitation or permission to receive autodialer

or prerecorded voice message calls. Therefore, calls may be placed to "captured" numbers only if such calls fall under the existing exemptions to the restrictions on autodialer and prerecorded message calls."

http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/Common_Carrier/Orders/1994/fcc92443.txt

[jq26]

The TCPA does not apply to collections, as you have a relationship. TCPA is to prevent sales calls. The FCC apparently agrees:

36. Debt Collection Calls. In the NPRM, we observed that all debt collection circumstances involve a prior or existing business relationship. In addition, we tentatively concluded that debt collection calls are exempt from the TCPA's prohibitions against prerecorded message calls because they are commercial calls which do not convey an unsolicited advertisement and do not adversely affect residential subscriber rights.

[BV80]

The TCPA does not apply to collections, as you have a relationship. TCPA is to prevent sales calls. The FCC apparently agrees:

36. Debt Collection Calls. In the NPRM, we observed that all debt collection circumstances involve a prior or existing business relationship. In addition, we tentatively concluded that debt collection calls are exempt from the TCPA's prohibitions against prerecorded message calls because they are commercial calls which do not convey an unsolicited advertisement and do not adversely affect residential subscriber rights.

I agree that debt collectors can call and leave messages, but the TCPA does apply to them regarding the use of autodialers, cell phones, and "prior express consent."

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-232A1.pdf

"Captured" numbers do not appear to be considered consent under any circumstances.

"34 See 1992 TCPA Order, 7 FCC Rcd at 8769, para. 31 (citing House Report, 102-317, 1st Sess., 102nd Cong. (1991) at 13, “noting that in such instances the called party has in essence requested the contact by providing the caller with their telephone number for use in normal business communications”). The Commission also noted, however, that if a caller’s number is “captured” by a Caller ID or an ANI device without notice to the residential telephone subscriber, the caller cannot be considered to have given an invitation or permission to receive autodialer or prerecorded voice message calls. Id."

[jq26]

Interesting stuff...

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With this ruling, however, creditors and debt collectors may use predictive dialers to call wireless phones, provided the wireless phone number was provided by the subscriber in connection with the existing debt.52 We note, however, that where the subscriber has not made the number available to the creditor regarding the debt, we expect debt collectors to be able to utilize the same methods and resources that telemarketers have found adequate to determine which numbers are assigned to wireless carriers,53 and to comply with the TCPA’s prohibition on telephone calls using an autodialer or an artificial or prerecorded voice message

to wireless numbers.54

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So says the FCC. Have the courts affirmed or is this another FCC interpretation without teeth?

[BV80]

There's not much case law on it yet, but there's a few. Here are some court cases:

Sengenberger v. CREDIT CONTROL SERVICES, INC., Dist. Court, ND Illinois 2010

EDEH v. Midland Credit Management, Inc., Dist. Court, Minnesota 2010

Leckler v. Cashcall, Inc., 554 F. Supp. 2d 1025 - Dist. Court, ND California 2008

[TomnTex]

The thing here is, that almost all large companies as well as the JDB's have a ANI (automatic number identification) will be able to capture your number, even if you block it. They can unblock it. The safe thing to do is use a pay phone if one is still available in your area, or find a phone in an area where you won't be known.

The extension probably won't show your number, but you can bet they can backtrack your call to the incoming phone.

Tom

Edited April 6, 2011 by TomnTex

[johnwhite]

Yeah, 1800 # knows ur # even if you block it.

[BrokeIn2011]

Thank you all for this wealth of information. WOW!!! What you all have shared is very good to know, and is very educational.

Thanks so very much for your help. I appreciate it.