ATTACK AND DEFEND: Bill of Sale

[MrPunch]

Hi everyone!

Earlier I had an idea of trying to start a series of threads, called "ATTACK AND DEFEND", each dedicated to various parts of credit card suits, such as contracts, Bills of Sale, debt ownership, Statute of Limitations, etc., but ONLY ONE PART PER THREAT!!!. In each threat you can point out any specific defenses and objections, hopefully supported by any specific law and/or case citing, so we can all have a good collection of defenses and, hopefully, a little more organized way of preparing for each separate part of a lawsuit. Hopefully the site admins wouldn't mind me doing this I don't know if this is going to fly, but wanted to give it a try anyways, so here we go - this threat is dedicated to:

Defending and Objecting arguments about Bills of Sale!!!

Let's see what we have in our ammunition to fight these low-life-junk-cracker-heads! If you have a good defense idea or a specific law to point out, please go ahead and let us all know about it here. But also, please don't post anything that is NOT RELATED to this subject! Thanks everyone!

Edited April 8, 2011 by MrPunch

[MrPunch]

Some things to argue when it comes to Bill of Sale (BOS) presented by a JDB could be - "lack of account number", which would specifically show the court which account was actually purchased and/or transferred to the JDB. Most BOS's don't have that information listed.

Also make sure the dates on the BOS match any other information you might have about this account, including the information listed on your Credit Report (CR). It can also help you that the BOS is not valid evidence and is not admissible in court.

[calawyer]

This is from a previous post:

Proof of assignment is VERY important for several reasons.

JDBs purchase and sell debt frequently. The OC may sell to JDB #1, who turns around and sells to JDB #2, who later sells to JDB #3. Nothing at all wrong with doing so. However, if some JDB comes knocking at your door, you would be a fool to pay what it asks without satisfying yourself that such a payment would extinguish your obligation to the OC. THe only way you would know that, is proof that JDB #3 is the lawful owner of the original obligation.

Moreover, if JDB#3 sues to enforce the obligation, it must have standing to appear in Court. And, as a defendant, you want to make sure that a settlement or judgment will operate as res judicata as to that obligation (ie it will finally resolve the dispute about the debt). If JDB #3 did not really purchase YOUR debt, or if the assignment was ineffective, JDB #2 (or #4) will come knocking on your door. If you are in Court and are seeking the chain of assignment in discovery, it is important to explain to the Judge why you need it.

Here is the entire thread:

http://www.creditinfocenter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303532&highlight=standing

[fightemdontfold]

Yeah, is there any sort of method to that madness, of one of the scumsuckers enlisting the services of another scumsucker to collect for them.

I am not referring to a JDB actually selling to another JDB. In piecing together the account I was sued over I looked back over all of the letters I recieved over the last 3 years or so that I had more or less ignored but saved. I observed that along with it being sold from one JDB to another after it was charged off by the OC, that both JDB's had other scumsuckers send me letters. The communications did list the JDB that owned it on there.

Couple of questions, the important one first. Do they have to on the chain of custody have to document every JDB that tried to collect on it even if they didn't own the account. Just wondering for future reference.

Second question is just a curiosity, is there some kind of pecking order of method that is enlisted when these companies shuffle accounts off to other collectors,lol?? One JDB who had the account had like 4 different companies send me letters, a couple only one letter was sent,lol, they didn't put much effort into it.

Idea, maybe victims of the JDB's can enlist the help of the crusanders of enviromental conservation, all that paper these people send out to folks who just ignore their unprovable claims. Very wasteful of paper and all that garbage.

[antiquedave]

Some of these outfits have a half a dozen shell companies, you have to look at the documents filed with the State to see who the officers and board members are on the annual reports.

Then you can see if the companies are owned by the same group of people or lawyers.

So you create a corporation that buys defaulted debt

and they assign that debt to a corporation they created to start collection proceedings that sells the debt they can't collect on to another corporation they created that assigns the debt for a lawsuit to the corporation that consists of the lawyers who sit on the board of all of the other corporations

its a shell game and a tax dodge and a way to skirt responsibilities of FDCPA:conspiracy:

So one of your corporations does all the hardball collections and violations, when they do get caught and hammered its only the assets of that corporation that are subject to a suit unless the Attorney General or someone takes the time to connect the dots.

[fightemdontfold]

LOL sounds like a system that only the amoral scum of the earth out there could make sense of and conduct business within. At the end of the day your just left laughing at how crooked these people can be. not that it is funny, but you know.....

Thanks for the awesome explanation dave.

[samkay]

Some of these companies are truly scum. I won a case based on SOL which is 3 years in my state. I didn't go after the lawyer and DC that came after me knowing that the SOL had expired. Lo and behold I keep getting letters from other scum artists offering to settle this debt.

Edited April 9, 2011 by samkay
wrong title