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KWKSLVR

PRA Lying on CR

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So, the other day I get a call from Portfolio Recovery Services stating that I owe them right around $3400 for an account I've never heard of that was originally opened in 8/2007 and apparently went delinquent 8/2008. I asked them what to do to dispute and they told me, "Send us a letter but we can't tell you what to say in it". No shock there. I'm a bit of a consumer advocate and extremely Anti-Debt (I haven't had debt or owned a credit card in YEARS) so I know of PRA's deceptive practices. I immediately sent them a rather lengthy and complex Debt Validation letter (the one that is on this website) Certified Mail and then pulled my Credit Report. I rarely review my CR which I know is a mistake. I've always thought, "what's the point, I don't borrow money". Anyway, what I found is PRA reports:

Date Opened: 8/2009

Date Major Delinquency First Reported: 10/2009

Date of Last Payment: (blank)

Actual Payment Amount: $100

Date of Last Activity: N/A

So, if I'm reading this right, it sounds like they took this account over in 8/2009 I supposedly paid them $100 sometime in 9/2009 then I went delinquent. I've never paid them a dime for anything. I doubly confirmed this by reviewing bank statements from that time period from the ONE and only bank account I had at the time. I've never received anything in the mail from them either. So, even if it was legitimate they would still be guilty of lying on my credit report to reset the SOL! I fully expect them to either not respond to my written request all or to not provide me with sufficient validation.

Anyway, my question is what exactly do I need to do here? Not only is this not my debt, but they're lying about payments made, which we all know is to extend the SOL. What actions should I take next? Am I reading my credit report wrong in reference to these dates and this payment amount? When I talked to the woman ("Mrs. Smith" of course) and I heard the dates, I thought "Big Deal, it's almost outside of the SOL, I'll send them a letter and deal with the Big 3 to get any entries removed from my CB". Now that there's a plethora of false information, I'm a little clueless on where to go next with this.

I have some money saved and I have no fear of court (taking them or them taking me). Should that be my next step even if they send me some form of validation? With not receiving anything in writing, can I use phone records of their call as the same thing? (Why else would they be calling?) How do I MAKE them send me information (or sue me or sue them and force them to provide what they have during that process)? Thanks for any advice and guidance.

Edited by KWKSLVR

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Send a dispute to the CRAs... and see what happens.

Depending on the outcome, it will either be deleted, or you start building a paper trail for a FCRA suit.

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Does doing it online really matter? The extra 15 days via online filing doesn't really matter to me. I've disputed things online before and had them removed (just disputed one online to Equifax the other day, haven't heard from it yet).

Thanks for the advice. :)%

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Many on here - me included send disputes CMRRR.

According to the attorney that handled my suit against EX, FCRA suits have to be built methodically...this means a lot of documentation. I had to be able to prove letters sent, letters received, etc.

It's hard for a CRA to disprove receiving a CMRRR letter, after all, a US Postal employee delivered it.

If you dispute online, you have no independent way to verify they got your dispute.

What happens if the CRA doesn't investigate? Online, you have no paper trail and it makes proving your claims difficult. Also, what happens if there's a data glitch that erases your dispute (unlikely, but it can happen)? You have less chance of recourse by disputing online.

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Have they responded to your DV yet?

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No, they haven't responded to it and I really don't think they will (They have only had it since the 3rd though). I have NEVER received anything in the mail from them. The other thing I noticed on my Credit Report is that my "Current Address" is SEVERAL years old. I suppose that's the "bane" of not using credit for anything. I assume they've probably mailed the old address listed on my CR, and of course, I've never gotten anything since I don't live there anymore.

Let me ask you guys this on documentation to attach to go to the Credit Bureau's since I'm writing Equifax right now. I'm disputing the account that I previously disputed online (and noting that to them as well). It's an account for T-Mobile, which is silly, since I currently have T-Mobile and am in good standing. I'm sending them a copy of my current bill which shows that my account is paid in full and in good standing.

In regards to the PRA account, as I explained in my OP, it appears that they are claiming I made a $100 payment to them at some point since they are reporting that they took ownership of this account in 8/2009 and reported the date of "major delinquency first reported" as being 10/2009. To me, and I'd love clarification, it means that they're implying that at some point between 8/2009 and 10/2009 the account was current (hence a $100 payment to them despite not reporting a date of last payment). Does it do me ANY good to send Equifax a print out of my bank statement from the months of 8/2009-10/2009 which show NO payments to PRA and NO payments of an even $100 to ANYONE. I can't prove I didn't have any other checking accounts. I can't prove I didn't send a Money Order or some other form of payment, so how do I prove to Equifax I didn't do something because not doing something tends to reveal a lack of evidence that I did do something... hence the nature of not doing something. HOWEVER, at the end of the day, if someone legitimately sent them $100 on this account, it wasn't me, which I would think would be proof that this doesn't belong to me. AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH :lol:

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Not to mention that if they DID have electronic access to my checking account, why haven't they cleaned it out? Of course, they don't.

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If it were me, I'd simply send a letter stating the debt isn't mine, I never opened an account with anyone in 2007, and certainly never made a $100 payment. I'm not sure sending a copy of your bank statement would help, because as you said, you can't prove you didn't pay some other way.

It could be that PRA claims the $100 payment in an attempt to claim the debt would be within the SOL. Right now, PRA is in violation of the FDCPA.

If the debt comes back verified, they will be in violation of the FCRA. It'll be interesting to see what PRA sends you in response to your DV. Depending on what they send you, dispute the TL with PRA directly. Demand they prove they own the debt and have a right to report, and demand proof of the last payment.

When they can't provide those things, send a letter demanding they remove their TL or you will take legal action.

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Does it do me ANY good to send Equifax a print out of my bank statement from the months of 8/2009-10/2009 which show NO payments to PRA and NO payments of an even $100 to ANYONE. I can't prove I didn't have any other checking accounts. I can't prove I didn't send a Money Order or some other form of payment, so how do I prove to Equifax I didn't do something because not doing something tends to reveal a lack of evidence that I did do something... hence the nature of not doing something.

You can't prove a negative. Forget about the $100 payment--it's completely immaterial. Your course of action should be to demand that PRA prove the account is yours, and if they can't, they are required to remove it from your CR. Press both PRA and the CRAs on this.

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So basically, this is why addressing accounts listed to the CRA's is so important...because chances are the CA's are going to validate the debt to the CRA's, and then NOT be able to validate them to the consumer and by law they HAVE to if they validated them to the CRA's and you have all the paperwork from the CRA's that shows they validated it?

Thanks for the help guys. I just want to get this stuff cleared up and cleared out ASAP. I'm really tempted to put credit freezes on all 3 bureau's. I'm quickly discovering that I don't know nearly what I thought I knew!

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Ok, got the dispute letter mailed off to the CRA. I did a little reading on how they verify debt, so it looks like they'll probably validate it unless PRA doesn't respond for some reason (and I'm sure they will). I'll keep everyone updated on what happens!

Thanks again for the help so far.

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The $100 "payment" that is being reported could be an attempt to re-age the debt. If that's the case, its both a FDCPA and a FCRA violation.

Dispute the alleged payment via CMRRR. I would not send PRA any copies of bank statements, however I'd gather them just in case.

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The $100 "payment" that is being reported could be an attempt to re-age the debt. If that's the case, its both a FDCPA and a FCRA violation.

Dispute the alleged payment via CMRRR. I would not send PRA any copies of bank statements, however I'd gather them just in case.

That's what I thought. I assume the payment date being left blank is intentional on their part. Of course, I'm not sure if I'm reading my CR right, but those fields seem pretty cut and dry.

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That's what I thought. I assume the payment date being left blank is intentional on their part. Of course, I'm not sure if I'm reading my CR right, but those fields seem pretty cut and dry.

Considering you never opened an account, could there be possible identity theft? Or they've simply contacted the wrong person?

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No doubt. I'm waiting to see what all of this looks like before going that route. I just don't want to go filing police reports if it's a mistake on the part of some collector (not that I'd expect them to admit it). Plus I'd think there would be a LOT more on my credit report if someone stole my identity. I've disputed stuff in the past, before I started the process of buying my last house, and had no issues getting stuff removed. They were just gone, so I assume it was a situation where it was placed on my CR by mistake or the creditor just didn't respond to the request to verify within the 30 day window.

Edited by KWKSLVR

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Random thought. First, I'm still well within 30 days in all aspect of this.

PRA received a DV Letter on June 3rd

Equifax received my disputes one June 10th and 11th for two different disputes

(I know I'm out of order on those)

I was just reviewing the DV Letter I sent to PRA, in it I didn't mention the $100 payment because I didn't notice that it existed until after I pulled my CR. I do mention it in the dispute to Equifax though. Do I need to send PRA another letter mentioning the $100 payment or just wait until I hear from Equifax?

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One on the 10th and then the other the 11th. HOWEVER, like an idiot I did one of them online before I knew better (that's the one they then received via physical mail, certified, on the 10th). I still get those basically daily emails, so I'm going to assume that one will fall into the 45 day window despite the letter I sent a day or two later. I haven't checked my box yet today, hopefully there will be something in it. I'm planning on pulled my credit report from probably Trans Union next on around July 10th. I pulled the last one on June 5th, so hopefully they next one I pull will show that those accounts are currently being disputed.

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OK, PRA received my letter on June 3rd, here it is July 8th and I've heard nothing from them. I never expected to hear from them and they aren't obligated to reply. I get all that. Is there anything else I can do to further annoy them? (this is a fun hobby)

Also, if I pull Credit Report again in the next day or so should these accounts be properly updated as showing that they're currently in dispute?

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OK, PRA received my letter on June 3rd, here it is July 8th and I've heard nothing from them. I never expected to hear from them and they aren't obligated to reply. I get all that. Is there anything else I can do to further annoy them? (this is a fun hobby)

Also, if I pull Credit Report again in the next day or so should these accounts be properly updated as showing that they're currently in dispute?

I've noticed on my CR that furnishers tend to update on the same date every month. They received your letter on June 3rd. If they updated within a reasonable amount of time after that, they should have shown that the debt is disputed.

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Interesting, I just pulled my credit report from Trans Union. The PRA Account properly shows that it's currently being disputed by the consumer. The erroneous T-Mobile Account does NOT show up as being disputed.

* Again, disputes were received by the CRA on the 10th and 11th

* Sidenote, around June 26th I received a letter from Equifax dated June 15th (didn't check my mailbox for several days) stating that they needed additional info to confirm my identity because I was requesting everything to go to my UPS Store Mailbox over my home address (which, of course, is an address not on file with them). They also stated that, "We have received your request concerning your Equifax credit file and have addressed your concerns"...

I supplied the requested info which included a copy of my DL and SS Card and included a response letter essentially stating, "never mind my UPS Store Mailbox, send it to my home address which is XXXXXXXXXX" along with a copy of the letter they sent me. They received this stuff on June 29th. I still think it's funny that my "current address" listed on my Credit Report is three years old. :lol:

So I should probably assume that PRA properly updated the listing as disputed by me and NOT Equifax? Whoa, wait, that means these people actually did something they were suppose to? Incredible.

Edit: Also, there is no mention of a $100 payment amount/date or a date of last payment at all on my Trans Union Report. Erroneous info reported by Equifax possibly, or just information that Trans Union doesn't ask creditors for? In fact, I don't see "Terms/Payment Amounts" for any accounts other than my old mortgage and auto loan.

Edited by KWKSLVR

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Interesting, I just pulled my credit report from Trans Union. The PRA Account properly shows that it's currently being disputed by the consumer. The erroneous T-Mobile Account does NOT show up as being disputed.

* Again, disputes were received by the CRA on the 10th and 11th

* Sidenote, around June 26th I received a letter from Experian dated June 15th (didn't check my mailbox for several days) stating that they needed additional info to confirm my identity because I was requesting everything to go to my UPS Store Mailbox over my home address (which, of course, is an address not on file with them). They also stated that, "We have received your request concerning your Equifax credit file and have addressed your concerns"...

I supplied the requested info which included a copy of my DL and SS Card and included a response letter essentially stating, "never mind my UPS Store Mailbox, send it to my home address which is XXXXXXXXXX" along with a copy of the letter they sent me. They received this stuff on June 29th. I still think it's funny that my "current address" listed on my Credit Report is three years old. :lol:

So I should probably assume that PRA properly updated the listing as disputed by me and NOT Experian? Whoa, wait, that means these people actually did something they were suppose to? Incredible.

Edit: Also, there is no mention of a $100 payment amount/date or a date of last payment at all on my Trans Union Report. Erroneous info reported by Experian possibly, or just information that Trans Union doesn't ask creditors for? In fact, I don't see "Terms/Payment Amounts" for any accounts other than my old mortgage and auto loan.

Yes, PRA did something they are required to do. LOL!

As far as Trans Unions reporting requirements are concerned, the FCRA requires certain information. Are all the fields in the reports required? I'm honestly not sure. That's a good question that needs an answer.

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Here's another tidbit of information I find hilarious that I just noticed, I'm sure it will pop out as interesting, but I'll highlight it just for fun:

Balance: $3XXX

Date Updated: 6/2011

Original Balance: $3XXX

Original Creditor: 01 HSBC BANK NEVADA N A

Past Due: $3XXX

Pay Status: >Collection Account<

Account Type: Open Account

Responsibility: Individual Account

Date Closed: 6/2011

So let me get this straight. I disputed with them, they updated my Credit Report to reflect that it's been disputed and then promptly closed the account? Now why does that seem fishy? Isn't that a FDCPA violation to sell a debt that is being disputed? If the original JDB doesn't report that fact to the new JDB then the original is in violation and if the new JDB does know and they buy it anyway then they're in violation :?:

Edited by KWKSLVR

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Here's another tidbit of information I find hilarious that I just noticed, I'm sure it will pop out as interesting, but I'll highlight it just for fun:

Balance: $3XXX

Date Updated: 6/2011

Original Balance: $3XXX

Original Creditor: 01 HSBC BANK NEVADA N A

Past Due: $3XXX

Pay Status: >Collection Account<

Account Type: Open Account

Responsibility: Individual Account

Date Closed: 6/2011

So let me get this straight. I disputed with them, they updated my Credit Report to reflect that it's been disputed and then promptly closed the account? Now why does that seem fishy? Isn't that a FDCPA violation to sell a debt that is being disputed? If the original JDB doesn't report that fact to the new JDB then the original is in violation and if the new JDB does know and they buy it anyway then they're in violation :?:

They're reporting that they've closed the file. It doesn't they've sold it. To be honest with you, I'm not sure selling the debt would be a violation. A dispute doesn't necessarily mean the debt isn't valid. It simply means you've disputed it.

People dispute debts with JDBs all time. JDBs even sell debts that are outside the SOL for collecting and reporting. I don't know of a law that says a JDB can't sell any of those debts.

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