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Validation Letter


bloom01
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I sent out the validation letter (from this site) to a collection copy. I received a statement that only has my name and amount. No explanation on how they got to the amount. Nor any of this information:

Please provide me with the following:

"• Explain and show me how you calculated what you say I owe;

• Provide me with copies of any papers that show I agreed to pay what you say I owe;

• Provide a verification or copy of any judgment if applicable;

• Prove the Statute of Limitations has not expired on this account

• Show me that you are licensed to collect in my state

• Provide me with your license numbers and Registered Agent"

They hadn't reported anything on my credit report until today. Does that go against my 30 days to respond as stated below?

"If your offices are able to provide the proper documentation as requested in the following Declaration, I will require at least 30 days to investigate this information and during such time all collection activity must cease and desist."

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Was it a computer printout and did it have an account number on it?

They do not have to answer the bullet points you outlined. They do have to show you:

1.) A simple accounting of the debt.

2.) The name and address of the original creditor, and the original account number.

3.) Proof that you are licensed to collect in my state.

4.) Provide me with your license number and proof of ownership (if a JDB)

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Was it a computer printout and did it have an account number on it?

They do not have to answer the bullet points you outlined. They do have to show you:

1.) A simple accounting of the debt.

2.) The name and address of the original creditor, and the original account number.

3.) Proof that you are licensed to collect in my state.

4.) Provide me with your license number and proof of ownership (if a JDB)

Does MI law require the above? If not, they only have to provde the amount and the name of the OC.

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They need to show that they are licensed in the state of Michigan..If not, the AG will investigate if a consumer is under the impression that they are not licensed as a collection agency in MI.

I still would not engage a collection agency until they show they are licensed in your state and if a JDB, provide proof of ownership.

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"If your offices are able to provide the proper documentation as requested in the following Declaration, I will require at least 30 days to investigate this information and during such time all collection activity must cease and desist."

That statement is based on no law in any state. They will ignore it and probably accelerate the collection process on you. This will come off harsh, but it's not meant that way. They will probably hound you more and try even heavier handed tactics since you have tipped your hand your not aware of what the law really says and requires. That demand you just made to them carries as much weight as a dump truck that has a sign on the back that says not responsible for glass breakage due to falling rocks, keep back.

Also, unfortuantley, they don't, at this stage, have to show you they legally own the debt or are licensed to collect in your state. The key is at this stage. It dang sure has to be proven if they sue or you sue them for operating illegally.

Here is the unfortunate law, not what you or I wish it says or implies.

(B) If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector.

- No detailed accounting.

- No proof they are licensed in your state.

- No proof the statute of limitations has not run.

- No assignment.

- No bill of sale.

- No signed copy of the contract.

- No copy of the credit card agreement.

- No disclosure of the registered agent or their license number.

- No mention that after you receive what they sent your entitled to 30 days, in which time collection must cease, to review what they sent.

They must get information from the O.C. they have your name and information correct (meaning you allegdly owe) and the amount you allegedly owe.

What they can't do is say, yep we checked and you owe it. They almost can, but they have to at least get the info from the O.C. Now if they already have it from the O.C. they have gotten it from the O.C.

Generally speaking, they need to provide something like a credit card statement or an affidavit from the O.C. That is verifying with the O.C. and, for example, an old credit card statement would provide you enough info on the debt as it would have an account number and other info. They can't just write it down and send to you, they have to at least have a printout or something else showing the info came directly from the O.C.

As crazy as it it, they don't have to show it is correct, just the info they have and allege came from the O.C.

Once again, don't for a second confuse what I am saying for what would pass in a court of law as proof you owe the debt. It is a far cry from proof to get a judgement against you.

What I would do is send a letter back, CMRRR, and state that after reviewing what they sent, this alleged account and debt remains in dispute, in its entirety. Furthermore, all calls to me are inconvienent, please communicate with me by mail only.

No empty threats to sue or other demands. Just short, sweet, and right to the point. It will at least show the creditor that you caught up to speed on the FDCPA. Finally, if your state has some different and more protective consumer laws (many do, such as, Texas), you can look into those and see about violations that might have occured. I'm only giving my advice/opinion on the FDCPA and no specific state consumer protection law.

Rest assured though, there will be plenty that will come along and assure you I don't know what I'm talking about and the collector must provide certain other info. There are also some isolated cases where a court might have ruled the collector must do more. However, they are isolated, required a drawn out court battle with atty fees, and many times the collector dropped the case or settled after the allegation of improper valadation.

In other words it will appear because the case settled and the collector did not dispute the allegations the court ruled for the party bringing the action. Others are advisory opinions and others have been watered down or overturned on appeal.

It's the law so there are exceptions to every rule. Heck all the states in America can't even agree on if we should kill people that murder or not. So of course there might be some disagreement on what is valadation or not. However, what I have just wrote will be the case a huge majority of the time more than it won't, especially if your a non-atty pro-se litigant.

Send them your follow up dispute and see what they do next. Use the no calls and at least if they contact you (generally speaking) you have a strict liability FDCPA violation that will be totally independant of the underlying debt and can be used as a counterclaim if they sue you.

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