londonhermit

The JDB lawyer is calling me as a witness

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Can anyone that has gone through the trial phase give me some advise about being on the stand? What questions were asked and how did you answer. Also they have a keeper of records to testify. I'm planning on objecting on the grounds of hearsay. That witness only has knowledge of the records at the JDB not the OC.

Thanks

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Your thinking on the right path. Look at it this way. You can't confirm the JDB owns the alleged account. It is impossible for you to do that. You don't work for the OC, just as their "keeper of the records" does not.

If they ask you if the bill of sale or assignment states they are the new owner, I would say yes it does. However, I have no idea of that is an legit document because I did not write it. All you can do is confirm the evidence they put in front of you. If they say is this your name and address on these statements? Then yes is the answer.

Without a witness from the OC they can't get around ownership. You don't have the knowledge to confirm ownership. Don't forget, even though your own the stand, assuming your pro se, you can still object.

Now I would do this, depending on your confidence level, you might want to try this. If they say does this document not state and show that XXXX (OC) lawfully sold this account to my client XXXX. I would say yes it does.

Then pull out my checkbook and already have ten million dollars written in the balance. Then I'd say this checkbook also says I have ten million dollars in XXX bank, however, just like the document you just laid in front of me, simply because something is in writing does not make it true.

Now if I get a representative from XXX bank to confirm I have ten million dollars in the bank and you can ask that rep questions, then yes, it can be determined I really do have ten million dollars in the bank. However, just like what you presented me with, unless one can talk to the person that made and signed that document, it's just an authenticated piece of hearsay evidence.

Then sit back and watch the fireworks !!

Edited by Coltfan1972

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Thanks Coltfan you're so awesome. I'm not sure what this sneak is up too. I plan on trying to do a summary judgement on my pre-trial date. I brought up the fact that the Plaintiff has not proven its complaint, they haven't proven that they own the debt, they haven't provided admissible evidence that I own the debt. One question can I cross examine their witness or do you think it would be foolish?

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One question can I cross examine their witness or do you think it would be foolish?

You not only cross examine their witness, you completely tear them to shreds and make them wish they had never taken the stand. You destroy them.

You hammer them on their personal first hand knowledge of the records. You get them to admit they don't work for the OC, did not originate the OC documents, and was not a direct party to the alleged sale of the contract.

Turn them into the first witness, in the movie My Cousin Vinny, when Vinny nails the guy that allegedly saw Vinny's client's drive off from a murder. He caught the guy testifying he cooks his grits in five minutes. Then Vinny asks if they are magic grits and do the laws of physics cease to exist on his stove. How can it take the whole grit eating community 15 minutes to cook their grits. Does water boiler quicker on your stove than any stove in America. Finally he asks if he got his grits from the same guy that sold Jack his beanstalk beans. :lol:

Does the witness for the JDB have magical powers. Is this witness like I Dream of Jeannie and can blink their eyes and appear thousands of miles away to witness an alleged sale of the alleged debt.

Hand the witness your checkbook that says your balance is 10,000,000 in the account. Ask them to prove or disprove you have 10,000,000 in the bank. When they say they can't, ask them why not. Ask them how they can look at somebody else business records, which they had no first hand part in making or maintaning then sit on the witness stand and testify so confidently about how true the records are, but can't take your business records and do the same with them. Why is that? How come it works for the records from Plaintiff but not for your records?

Do they have selective authenticating skills. Tell them they just testified that the records produced at trial are correct. However, if you hand them my records, say their correct, why can't you intelligently discuss my records. What is the reason you can't have that discussion with me.

Get out a piece of paper and write their name on it and put that person owes you one million dollars. Then hand it to the witness and say, do you owe me one million dollars. The answer will be no.

Your next question is why not? It's right their in writing and I am telling you it's true. Would it be different if I went into the gallery, took somebody outside, handed them this document saying you owe me one million dollars, told them it was 100% the truth. Then called that person to the witness stand and asked them if you owe me one million dollars. Then if that person says yes, do you now owe me one million dollars? No? why not, now it's in writing and we have somebody that was not a party to the alleged making of the debt with you and I, on the stand, under oath stating you owe me one million dollars.

Why don't you owe me? Would you want to cross examine this person? Would that help? of course you would, and why? Is it because anybody can write down anything, but that does not make it true? Are you trying to tell me that a person that did not witness the alleged making of the debt or contract can't possibly know if the debt or contract is indeed authentic and true?

So last question then. Why in the wold are you trying to do the same thing to me by sitting in that chair and testify like you know for sure the documents you had no part in creating are true and correct. Why are you trying to get this court to issue judgement against me for doing the exact same thing as I just used in my examples. This is no different. You only have records you were told are true, but it's impossible for you to know that. However, your here testifying they are true and correct. Why? Can you explain why the one million dollar sceniero is different than what your sitting in that chair trying to do to me?

Finally, explain again how these records are 100% legit? Explain again, just so their is no confusion for the court, how you can authenticate these documents, bill of sale, and assignment. Please explain, I'm dying to hear this?

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Oh yeah, get a blank checkbook register, put 10,000,000 in the balance. Stick an exhibit A sticker on it and send copy to the atty. Tell them your complying with discovery. :twisted:

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While you're at it, download a cardholder agreement from the OC, put it in Word format, and change it to suit yourself. Word it so that it proves you owe nothing. Submit it as evidence. Say that the Post Office didn't return it as undeliverable. (that's always their defense) Have it say that the choice of law is Saudi Arabia or some place where interest is illegal. It's just as good as the garbage they use as evidence. See how they like their own stuff tried on them.

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Londonhermit,

As fun as it sounds, I believe Coltfan and Legaleagle are blowing off steam. It is never a good idea to fabricate false evidence in a civil case. At best it ticks the judge off, at worst you could be sanctioned and made to pay a fine for submitting it.

While it is our belief that a lot of the evidence presented by JDB is fabricated, they still have a prima facia case without it. Generating your own invoice or agreement without a prima facia case could be interpreted as attempted to commit fraud upon the court.

Coltfan's first answer is your best. Tell just the truth and make NO assumptions. You cannot authenticate evidence from the OC or the JDB because they has not been in your possession or control. So when they ask you if you recognize it, tell the truth, this is your first time seeing it and you cannot authenticate it or you have seen it, but you have never seen authentication from a witness for the OC.

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You make it very clear your making the evidence up and just using it as an example. I wrote the Judge's name on a piece of paper and put Judge XXX owes me one million dollars, then asked the Judge if they owed me one million dollars since it's in writing?

So yes, I'd do everything I just suggested. It would be clear my bogus evidence is just to prove a point. However, as a disclaimer, I use a destroy the other side at all costs, not just burn any bridge but drop a nuke on it, and the more of a three ring circus (within the rules) the better. I also don't think about or care about the consequences if I lose (that's becuase I'm not going to lose :) So I have a I don't give a flip attitude and am walking in with a gas can looking to throw fuel on any fire.

Just so you know my mind set, to be fair, when weighing the advice I'm giving.

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Oh and don't forget about how to deal with facsimile documents:

If the document is a printout, a scan, etc. They have to present their IT guy to validate the document is a true copy of the original and that their records system is tamper proof.

Any joker with a scanner and a copy of a good word processor or pubishing app can alter a document and re-print it on a $100 printer.

Thank you Adobe for making the humble laser printer essentially obsolete as a source of evidence on its own. :-)

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Methuss where did you get the rule that they have to have their IT guide? I like to to know so I can site it. Also what questions did the JDB ask any of you if you were on the stand.

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Methuss where did you get the rule that they have to have their IT guide? I like to to know so I can site it. Also what questions did the JDB ask any of you if you were on the stand.

Specifically, that's in case law. More generally, it comes from the rules of evidence. Those records are hearsay, which means that for them to be admissible, they have to fall under a hearsay exception. The hearsay exception for in this instance would be "records of regularly conducted activity," i.e. business records. I have yet to see a state with hearsay rules that aren't patterned after the federal rules, and the federal rules require that business records be trustworthy.

(6) Records of regularly conducted activity. A memorandum, report, record, or data compilation, in any form, of acts, events, conditions, opinions, or diagnoses, made at or near the time by, or from information transmitted by, a person with knowledge, if kept in the course of a regularly conducted business activity, and if it was the regular practice of that business activity to make the memorandum, report, record or data compilation, all as shown by the testimony of the custodian or other qualified witness, or by certification that complies with Rule 902(11), Rule 902(12), or a statute permitting certification, unless the source of information or the method or circumstances of preparation indicate lack of trustworthiness. The term "business" as used in this paragraph includes business, institution, association, profession, occupation, and calling of every kind, whether or not conducted for profit.

Notice the bit about "unless the source of information of the method or circumstances of preparation indicate a lack of trustworthiness."

Here's a case on the issue:

American Express Travel Related Services Co. v. Vinhnee (In re Vinhnee) - Google Scholar

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cross-examination, direct, redirect, rebuttal and all the rest like objections from the witness stand.

Also if they did not list you as a witness how can they call you now.

and just say no alot.

and if they trip you up on cross examination ask yourself questions to dig yourself out.

here were the 5 questions they asked in my case.

1. did you have a providian card(never mentioned that during discover).

answer: I had one with different numbers but I can't recall the numbers because it wasn't at issue.

2. Did anyone other than you open mail at your address(blatent attempt to implicate my wife).

answer: No

3. Have you lived at the same address since 1994?

answer: yes

4. Did you sign up for a providian card?

answer: the other card mentioned earlier not the alleged one at issue.

5. Does your wife open mail when you are not present?

Court: Asked and answered counselor move along.

no further questions.

that was it.

Edited by Seadragon

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Thanks guys I did a bold move and moved for summary judgement. I also looked up case law about jdb faking documents to win. I'm nervous. I said in the beginning on another thread that the jdb who actually owns the collection company was disbarred for 8 years for illegal debt practices DISBARRED that's insane and embarrassing yet he continues to work in this business. I wanted to bring this up in cross exam but don't know how. Any suggestions.

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A JDB that was disbarred? Is this an Attorney owned JDB?

However the matter goes to impeachment of a witness and their reliability. When you get the witness on the stand you ask them if they have had any administrative actions taken against them. Then you present the documents about said proceedings and have them read specific highlighted passages into the record showing what the substance of the ruling was.

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Thanks Colt fan and kent. This JDB is horrible. You know whats funny way back in the summer when I had my case management conference the lawyer for the JDB said he was ordering documents from the OC and that he was moving for motion summary judgement. I waited and waited for him to file the MSJ but he never did. Ironically when I saw what he had after discovery I moved to file my own. He basically had three bills of sale that are not originals but facsimiles and faxes and a credit card statement that is also a facsimile with not charges or no reference to citi bank. He also said that the rest of the "evidence" he had was restricted due to attorney client privilege. I'll keep you guys posted.

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Thanks Colt fan and kent. This JDB is horrible. You know whats funny way back in the summer when I had my case management conference the lawyer for the JDB said he was ordering documents from the OC and that he was moving for motion summary judgement. I waited and waited for him to file the MSJ but he never did. Ironically when I saw what he had after discovery I moved to file my own. He basically had three bills of sale that are not originals but facsimiles and faxes and a credit card statement that is also a facsimile with not charges or no reference to citi bank. He also said that the rest of the "evidence" he had was restricted due to attorney client privilege. I'll keep you guys posted.

I was told the same thing about documents and MSJ. Gotta love the bully tactics. They don't have jack and just want you to fold.

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Thanks guys I did a bold move and moved for summary judgement. I also looked up case law about jdb faking documents to win. I'm nervous. I said in the beginning on another thread that the jdb who actually owns the collection company was disbarred for 8 years for illegal debt practices DISBARRED that's insane and embarrassing yet he continues to work in this business. I wanted to bring this up in cross exam but don't know how. Any suggestions.

I doubt you'll get anywhere with this motion, as it seems a bit premature. The judge will most likely deny this until the trial goes forward. As far as introducing evidence that the owner of the company was disbarred, they'll object to that as irrelevant and prejudicial. Unless he is actually illegally pursuing the case as the attorney, I doubt they'll allow in any information connected to him. He's legally allowed to make a living, he just can't practice law. You would have to cite actual violations committed by the people who are handling your case. The actions of other jdbs who may have faked documents is irrelevant to your case in my opinion. Kinda like introducing a criminal's past record at trial, or worse, somebody else's record as evidence of guilt.

That said, if you want to see what lenders are capable of, google Sharon Diane Hill, bankruptcy, Pennsylvania. Not a CC case, but it shows you what you're dealing with.

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Londonhermit,

As fun as it sounds, I believe Coltfan and Legaleagle are blowing off steam. It is never a good idea to fabricate false evidence in a civil case. At best it ticks the judge off, at worst you could be sanctioned and made to pay a fine for submitting it.

While it is our belief that a lot of the evidence presented by JDB is fabricated, they still have a prima facia case without it. Generating your own invoice or agreement without a prima facia case could be interpreted as attempted to commit fraud upon the court.

Coltfan's first answer is your best. Tell just the truth and make NO assumptions. You cannot authenticate evidence from the OC or the JDB because they has not been in your possession or control. So when they ask you if you recognize it, tell the truth, this is your first time seeing it and you cannot authenticate it or you have seen it, but you have never seen authentication from a witness for the OC.

Nobody here is suggesting that anybody "fake" evidence and try to defraud the court. As Coltfan said, you put on a little show for the judge to make a point. When you introduce your "evidence," you make sure you label it as such. For the life of me, I cannot understand why a major bank can get away with producing unverified documents that you allegedly agreed to, and demanding that they be accepted as gospel. One unverified, unprovable document is just as good as another. It seems that the rules of evidence only apply to the consumer in the mind of these banks.

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Massachusetts Guide to Evidence

Here is the current version of the Mass. rules of evidence in case you don't have it. Section 10 covers most of this. The only glitch you may run into is if they try the choice of law provision and claim that the rules of evidence of their chosen "fleece the consumer" state apply. In that case, you'll have to freshen up on those.

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