fr25

PayPal, fake name/telephone number, negative balance, debt collectors - what now?

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Self-explanatory title, I guess. Should I contact the debt collector and tell them that I'm willing to pay off the debt on behalf of this "alias" of mine?

My main concern is whether I'd be caught for fraud while attempting to pay off the debt now. The debt amounts to around $800.

Note that I did provide a genuine address. Also note that I'm in Australia (if that is of any relevance in any way).

Edited by fr25
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Self-explanatory title, I guess. Should I contact the debt collector and tell them that I'm willing to pay off the debt on behalf of this "alias" of mine? Note that I did provide a genuine address. Also note that I'm in Australia (if that is of any relevance in any way).

I would tell the CA that it is not your account and to go F*ck Off until they can prove otherwise. As you can see from my location, living in another country does provide a degree of safety. I have over $50,000 in USA creditors after me, none of whom I have heard a word from in over a year.

Edited by Flyingifr
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I would tell the CA that it is not your account and to go F*ck Off until they can prove otherwise.

That's it? I mean, if I were to do that, then wouldn't they start investigating or something...since they won't be able to find out the whereabouts of the account holder by any means?

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That's it? I mean, if I were to do that, then wouldn't they start investigating or something...since they won't be able to find out the whereabouts of the account holder by any means?

There are now 7 BILLION people on Earth. The one who owes them the money isn't me and it isn't you, so that leaves 6,999,999,998 to go after. "Get back to me when you have ruled them all out. Until then, F*ck off, Mate"

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There are now 7 BILLION people on Earth. The one who owes them the money isn't me and it isn't you, so that leaves 6,999,999,998 to go after. "Get back to me when you have ruled them all out. Until then, F*ck off, Mate"

Cheers for the advice! Although I'm still a bit dubious about whether the CA would simply give up and give me a bad credit rating after wasting a lot of effort to try to track me down, or hand it over to the police, I'm at a lot more ease now knowing that CAs normally don't take it too far. :D

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Cheers for the advice! Although I'm still a bit dubious about whether the CA would simply give up and give me a bad credit rating after wasting a lot of effort to try to track me down, or hand it over to the police, I'm at a lot more ease now knowing that CAs normally don't take it too far. :D

Debt is not a criminal act so the police have no interest in it. You are in Australia, what do you care about a USA credit rating? If they try to ding your Aussie credit rating, you sue them for libel and slander. No amount of dithering and lying will make the wrong person liable for this debt. If they don't want to understand that, maybe a Judge can explain it to them.

Debt and international boundaries is a topic that comes up regularly. Here is a thread I started some time ago on that topic that you should read: http://www.creditinfocenter.com/forums/collections/304502-debt-international-boundaries.html

How about it, Mods? I think that thread should be stickied.

Edited by Flyingifr
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Debt is not a criminal act so the police have no interest in it. You are in Australia, what do you care about a USA credit rating? If they try to ding your Aussie credit rating, you sue them for libel and slander. No amount of dithering and lying will make the wrong person liable for this debt. If they don't want to understand that, maybe a Judge can explain it to them.

Debt and international boundaries is a topic that comes up regularly. Here is a thread I started some time ago on that topic that you should read:

How about it, Mods? I think that thread should be stickied.

I understand that debt isn't a criminal act; but fraud is! They could track me down if they were to put in the effort, as I log into both my PayPal accounts from the same IP (rookie mistake, I know...although I can use the defence that I use a wireless hub at my home, so anyone could use my internet as long as they knew the password, which isn't exactly extremely well-hidden!).

After reading your posts, though, I understand that CAs may not even want to put in the effort to find out whether I'm upto anything fraudulent. They just care about the debt.

Edited by fr25
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Before they use the word "fraud" you need to realize that you are the VICTIM of the fraud, not the perpetrator.

Even if they do convince someone in Law Enforcement that you are the perpetrator of Fraud, and even if the District Attorney chooses to prosecute, and even if you do get convicted, and even if you do get sentenced to prison, how does all that get them paid? After all, that is what they want, isn't it?

(Did you count all the "even if"s?)

Fraud is one of those things that is easy to scream and hard to prove, and the burden of proof in a criminal trial is much higher than in a civil trial and is always on the Prosecution. Bill collectors love to scream "fraud" because consumers believe it now places a burden of proof on them to disprove fraud. WRONG.

Edited by Flyingifr
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To constitute fraud, the Plaintiff must prove that the Defendant intended for the Plaintiff to rely upon the misrepresentation [and/or omission]; that the Plaintiff did in fact rely upon the misrepresentation [and/or omission]; and that the Plaintiff suffered injury or damage as a result of the fraud.

Fraud, however immoral or illegal, is not in itself a crime or offence for want of a criminal intent. It only becomes such in the cases provided by law.

Frauds may be also divided into actual or positive and constructive frauds.

An actual or positive fraud is the intentional and successful employment of any cunning, deception or artifice used to circumvent, cheat or deceive another.

The act has to be intentional.

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Using a credit card to purchase a big ticket item the same day you signed papers with a lawyer to file for BK 7, signed the forms, but they have not been filed yet.

Read that "Buying a yacht with a credit card on the day you use that same credit card to retain a BK attorney and failing to list the yacht on the BK filings.."

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Wait wait...how am I victim of fraud here? I was operating two PayPal accounts, one with my genuine name, and one with a fictitious name; and I ended up getting a negative balance on the account with the fake name by abusing PayPal's "Instant Bank Transfer" scheme when purchasing items.

Or am I the victim of fraud due to a twist in legal jargon?

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Your original explanation was not so clear. So you did all of this by yourself?

Who is the debt collector trying to contact (you or the alias name)? Where is the debt collector (country)?

What scheme did you do or use?

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Your original explanation was not so clear. So you did all of this by yourself?

Who is the debt collector trying to contact (you or the alias name)? Where is the debt collector (country)?

What scheme did you do or use?

Yes I did this by myself.

The debt collector is some Aussie one. ARL-AU or something.

Basically, I was able to use PayPal's "Instant Bank Transfer" method to pay for items. One time, I emptied my bank account, then used IBT to pay for my items. When PayPal tried to withdraw the amount from my bank account later on, they were refused, since my account can't be overdrawn. Thus my PayPal account got a negative balance. Around 35 days later, they sent me an email saying that my account had been passed on to the collectors.

There has been some recent developments, though. PayPal emailed me on both of the email addresses linked to the two accounts, that they are permanently closing off both accounts on the grounds that I violated one or more of their policies (no sh*t, eh?!). Here is a copy of the email:

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Permanent account closure
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Dear XXXXX,

We’re sorry to let you know that the use of your account is not in
accordance with the terms and conditions of our User Agreement. As a
result, we’ve limited access to and will be closing your PayPal account.

What’s the problem?

Our system has detected that you have multiple PayPal accounts, and one or
more of these accounts have been closed for engaging in activities that do
not comply with our policies. The issue could be:

1. Excessive buyer complaints for:
a. merchandise or services not delivered or significantly not as
described; or
b. payments you received which your buyers did not authorise/approve to be
made; or

2. Negative balance(s) due to insufficient funds to cover refunds for
claims or chargebacks awarded in favour of the buyer; or

3. A violation of another PayPal policy or agreement you have with us.

What does this mean?

You will no longer be able to use PayPal’s services to send or receive
payments with this account or your other accounts which have been closed.
However, you can still log in to view your transaction history.

You will also be unable to open further PayPal accounts as we are unable to
provide future services to you.

What happens next?

In accordance with our User Agreement, any balance in your PayPal account
will be held for up to 180 days (or longer as required). We limit access to
your funds for up to 180 days so we can respond to any claims, chargebacks
or reversals filed against you during this period. We may use your PayPal
account balance to reimburse buyers who file claims, chargebacks or any
other reversals against you. You will be notified if we reimburse a buyer
or reverse a transaction, in accordance with our User Agreement.

After 180 days (or longer as required), if there is any balance remaining,
we’ll send you an email letting you know when and how you can withdraw the
funds from your closed PayPal account.

What do I do if I believe this is a mistake?

If you believe this decision has been made in error, you may appeal it.
Just go the Help Centre at wwwDOTpaypalDOTcomDOTauSLASHhelp and click Contact Us.

Where can I find a copy of PayPal’s legal agreements?

If you'd like to review our legal agreements, visit wwwDOTpaypalDOTcomDOTau and
click Legal Agreements at the bottom of any page.



Kind regards,
PayPal

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If PayPal has your bank account info, they know how you are.

Was the money transferred to yourself, or did you buy goods from someone else?

If it is the latter, PayPal is not the one stuck holding the bag, it is th poor sap who sold you the goods, because PayPal will block/hold their funds until this is resolved.

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