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Do I do a Debt Validation Now?


Merk
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So I get this in the mail:

Re: Original creditor: GE Money Bank, FSB

Current Creditor : Portfolio Recovery Associates, LLC

Debtor: My name

Acct No: 123456

Balance Due.: XXX

Dear Sir/Madam

Please be advised that the above referenced account has been purchased by PORTFOLIO RECOVERY ASSOCIATES, LLC. Our firm has been retained by PORTFOLIO RECOVERY ASSOCIATES, LLC for the purpose of collecting the above account.

We would like very much to resolve this in an amicable manner and would appreciate your contacting me at 111-111-1111 within the next 30 days to discuss how the account can be satisfied.

PLEASE FIND ATTACHED THE NOTICE REQUIRED BY THE FEDERAL FAIR DEBT COLLECTIONS PRACTICES ACT. THIS LETTER IS AN ATTEMPT TO COLLECT A DEBT AND ANY INFORMATION OBTAINED WILL BE USED FOR THAT PURPOSE.

YOURS VERY TRULY

John S. Doe

2nd page is

NOTICE REQUIRED BY THE FAIR DEBT COLLECTION PRACTICES ACT, (THE ACT), 15 U.S.C. SECTION 1692 AS AMENDED

1. THE PAST DUE AMOUNT IS XXXX

2 THE CREDITOR IS PORTFOLIO RECOVERY ASSOCIATES, LLC.

3. The debt described in the attached letter will be assumed to be vaild by the creditors law firm unless you the debtor within thirdy days after receipt of this notice, dispute the validity of the debt or any portion there of in writing.

4. if you the creditor notify the creditors law firm in writing within 30 days of the receipt of this notice that the debt is disputed, the creditors law firm will obtain verification of the debt and a copy will be mailed to you.

5. If the creditor named in paragraph 2 is not the original creiditor and if you make a written request to the creditors law firm with 30 days of the receipt of this notice the name and address of the original creditor will be mailed to you by the creditors law firm.

6. written requests should be sent to some lawyer blah blah

7. This notice should not be construed as a grace period and creditor may pursue collection immediately and not wait thirty days...ifyou request validation collection will suspend until that information is mailed to you...

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I haven't really read up on DV. I'm working on discovery with my other two cases. But now I realize I never read anything like this with my other two cases. Can anything be done about that? I know the fact that I never had a GE money bank card means nothing as it could've been some other card name, but I don't even recall what this is. What should my next step be and is there a sticky or link(s) for it. Thanks

Edited by Merk
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So I get this in the mail:

Re: Original creditor: GE Money Bank, FSB

Current Creditor : Portfolio Recovery Associates, LLC

Debtor: My name

Acct No: 123456

Balance Due.: XXX

Dear Sir/Madam

Please be advised that the above referenced account has been purchased by PORTFOLIO RECOVERY ASSOCIATES, LLC. Our firm has been retained by PORTFOLIO RECOVERY ASSOCIATES, LLC for the purpose of collecting the above account.

We would like very much to resolve this in an amicable manner and would appreciate your contacting me at 111-111-1111 within the next 30 days to discuss how the account can be satisfied.

PLEASE FIND ATTACHED THE NOTICE REQUIRED BY THE FEDERAL FAIR DEBT COLLECTIONS PRACTICES ACT. THIS LETTER IS AN ATTEMPT TO COLLECT A DEBT AND ANY INFORMATION OBTAINED WILL BE USED FOR THAT PURPOSE.

YOURS VERY TRULY

John S. Doe

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I haven't really read up on DV. I'm working on discovery with my other two cases. I know the fact that I never had a GE money bank card means nothing as it could've been some other card name, but I don't even recall what this is. What should my next step be and is there a sticky or link(s) for it. Thanks

I would send a DV letter CMRRR. Dispute the debt and keep it simple and to the point. According to the FDCPA, all they have to supply is the name of the OC and the amount. Once they get your letter, they cannot continue collection efforts until they validate.

The GE link lists some of the stores for whom they issue cards.

http://www.gemoneycards.com/contact_us/retail_partners/index.html

Edited by BV80
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7. This notice should not be construed as a grace period and creditor may pursue collection immediately and not wait thirty days...ifyou request validation collection will suspend until that information is mailed to you...

Does this not scream FDCPA overshadowing violation?

Talk about overshadowing the 30 day period by telling the debtor what the debtor should or should not think.

The LSC would defiantly feel a huge sense of urgency with this statement. I don't think the if you request validation collection will suspend can un-ring that bell.

While the statement is technically true, it overshadows in my opinion. It takes away and attempts to deflect the right of validation. The part about the grace period and pursuing collection during the DV period attempt to make the validation period not as important as the need to call and settle before there is further collection activity that takes place.

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Does this not scream FDCPA overshadowing violation?

Talk about overshadowing the 30 day period by telling the debtor what the debtor should or should not think.

The LSC would defiantly feel a huge sense of urgency with this statement. I don't think the if you request validation collection will suspend can un-ring that bell.

While the statement is technically true, it overshadows in my opinion. It takes away and attempts to deflect the right of validation. The part about the grace period and pursuing collection during the DV period attempt to make the validation period not as important as the need to call and settle before there is further collection activity that takes place.

I don't believe it is overshadowing. They're not saying OP must pay, only that they will pursue collection during the 30 days unless they hear from him. In #3, #4, and #5, they also mention the debtor contacting them within the 30 days. They make that 30 day notice pretty clear.

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Let's dispense with the wording of the dunning letter and put this guy on the right track for a good defense before he gets served. Request validation and see what they send, this gives you a heads up as to what they will produce in discovery. After that, if there is a suit, he can post it here. I think we can all agree that these cases are defensible. How much is the debt? Round it off. We'll give our astute opinion as to whether you should fight or do something else. I like to fight to the death, so does Coltfan. That's just us. Your situation may be different. In any event look into asset protection. Maybe two years down the line when they go to collect (if they win) your name will render a blank screen. Gee, what a shame.

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Portfolio usually runs real fast from a DV and sells it off. However since they have sent it to a lawyer, there is no telling how it can play out. They could have instructions to the lawyer to send it back to them if it is DV'ed. Or they could just let the lawyer decide what to do, which can get them into trouble with a determined consumer.

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Let's dispense with the wording of the dunning letter and put this guy on the right track for a good defense before he gets served. Request validation and see what they send, this gives you a heads up as to what they will produce in discovery. After that, if there is a suit, he can post it here. I think we can all agree that these cases are defensible. How much is the debt? Round it off. We'll give our astute opinion as to whether you should fight or do something else. I like to fight to the death, so does Coltfan. That's just us. Your situation may be different. In any event look into asset protection. Maybe two years down the line when they go to collect (if they win) your name will render a blank screen. Gee, what a shame.

1. Ok I haven't read much on DV because I have two cases that are already in discovery so it seems that DV'ing for those was a lost cause.

2. The debt on this one is right at Two thousand ( 2000.00 ) I know nothing about how to start a DV. Any help or a good thread?

3. I was reading this thread and it kinda discouraged me. creditinfocenter dot com/forums/there-lawyer-house/310627-need-critique-these-rogs-pod-admissions-please.html If they are just going to deny everything, should I even worry much about interrogs or admissions and concentrate more on DOC's? What are some good basic requests for a JDB? Do any of you all have a good thread or example that you have saved or that is stickied? I just end up reading and reading and never really figuring out which ones are good or are a waste, etc. There's so many threads I just lose track sometimes.

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I can help you with the DV letter.

Dear Creditor,

This debt is disputed in It's entirety. Please validate.

Sincerely,

You

or

Dear Creditor,

This debt is disputed in It's entirety. Please validate. Contact me only by mail.

Sincerely,

You

Discovery is a big game. Yes they, and as you should, will deny everything. If you are patient you can paint them into a corner with discovery.

Defiantly do discovery. However, I would concentrate on the request for documents. This will be what they use in court. You can get them to not produce and can sometimes get the evidence excluded.

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I can help you with the DV letter.

Dear Creditor,

This debt is disputed in It's entirety. Please validate.

Sincerely,

You

or

Dear Creditor,

This debt is disputed in It's entirety. Please validate. Contact me only by mail.

Sincerely,

You

Discovery is a big game. Yes they, and as you should, will deny everything. If you are patient you can paint them into a corner with discovery.

Defiantly do discovery. However, I would concentrate on the request for documents. This will be what they use in court. You can get them to not produce and can sometimes get the evidence excluded.

Certified return receipt should be standard I guess?

Any suggestions on the docs? It was suggested I make a separate thread for my case(s).... I guess I'll do that.

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  • 1 month later...
Just an update, I sent off the simplified above version type of letter last week. I should just sit back and wait and see what I get? Thanks

In the meantime, you could check your credit report to see if Portfolio is reporting. If they are, see if the date they "opened" the account matches the charge off date of any other card. Whether or not they're reporting, see if the balance they stated matches the balance of a charged off card.

I know GEMB issues cards for Lowes, Walmart and Old Navy. I'm sure there are others.

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3. The debt described in the attached letter will be assumed to be vaild by the creditors law firm unless you the debtor within thirdy days after receipt of this notice, dispute the validity of the debt or any portion there of in writing.

I had not noticed this before. This is a Violation in and of itself. There is plenty of case law that disputes do not need to be in writing and requiring a written dispute is a violation. You need to send a written dispute to preserve your rights for validation, but a dispute can be verbal.

Camacho v. Bridgeport Fin., No. 04-17126 [9th Cir. December 12, 2005]

Baez v. Wagner & Hunt, P.A., 442 F.Supp.2d 1273, 1274 (S.D. Fla. 2006)

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Unfortunately, there's no SC case law or 4th Circuit Court of Appeals case law on the subject, so hopefully the case law provided by KentWA would be persuasive.

The Baez case is perfect. Section 1692g(a) of the FDCPA states that a debt collector must, within five days of its initial attempt to collect any debt, send a letter to a consumer debtor containing:

(1) the amount of the debt;

(2) the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed;

(3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector;

(4) a statement that if the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, the debt collector will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment against the consumer and a copy of such verification or judgment will be mailed to the consumer by the debt collector; and

(5) a statement that, upon the consumer's written request within the thirty-day period, the debt collector will provide the consumer with the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor.

Notice that (3) simply says if you don't dispute the debt, it will be considered valid. It doesn't say that the dispute must be in writing for the debt collector not to consider it valid. In other words, a consumer could call the CA and dispute the debt, and that would be enough for the validity of the debt to be in question.

This has nothing to do with requesting validation. That's numbers (4) and (5). This is strictly about (3) and a debt collector considering a debt to be valid.

The agency in Baez inserted "in writing" in (3). They stated that for them to NOT consider the debt valid, the dispute must be in writing. The attorney in the OP's letter did the same thing.

If it were me, I'd send a basic DV letter first, then go from there depending upon their response.

Good catch, KentWA!

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