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Transfers of ownership = unclean hands?


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NEWB here! Picking up the lingo, fellow defendants! And possible Plaintiffs!

I have this judgement against me. I'm paying it off. Suddenly, and monthly, as I pay this off, I am getting fees, charges, all kinds of craziness. Original amount is 4750, of which 3800 is paid.

So, now I'm ready to just... pay and be done with it. HOWEVER, the Original Creditor (OC!) is now calling relentlessly to my mobile phone.

Manymanymany questions: Please bear with me.

How is this possible? The OC told me in writing that they sold it to the JDB AND that as the OC, they are not bound by the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.

The credit reports say the account is sold to the JDB. So, therefore I should finish paying this to the... JDB?

Is it customary for an OC to sell the account to the JDB, and for the JDB to re-sell the account BACK to the OC for collection?

I saw a brief explanation of an affirmative defense of Unclean Hands as follows: "Plaintiff will be denied relief if he or she has engaged in misconduct (i.e. acting in bad faith, violating a law) directly relating to the complaint. " But the thing is, what I'm doing is NOT trying to defend against a complaint. I just want to be sure when I pay this judgement off, that it will DIE and STAY DEAD. Can I just pay it directly to the courts?

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First thing I would do, is to verify, the judgement with your local court. Make sure you are certain of who owns the judgment.

You may want to check your credit report as many times this will show if an OC sold the account after charge off.

Next you need to review the Rosenthal Act, in California. You can do a google search and it will pop up, or review California Civil Code 1788.0. An OC is not bound by the FDCPA, but the Rosenthal Act mirrors the FDCPA, but also has no safe harbor for OC's.

OC's collecting their own debts in California can be held to the same collection standards based on the Rosenthal Act.

Who is the OC?

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HOWEVER, the Original Creditor (OC!) is now calling relentlessly to my mobile phone.

This may in fact be a TCPA violation. Did you provide your cell number to them? Are they calling with an auto dialer, you can usually tell if there is a short delay before they answer when they call you? If you did provide them with your cell number, you need to send them a letter being specific to remove the cell number from their list as you revoke permission for them to call.

After that point it is at least $500 per phone call and quite possibly $1500 for violating the TCPA.

If you did not give them your number and they got it somehow else (i.e. someone told them that was a number to reach you at) then the above violations apply for every call they have made to you.

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While I would be skeptical that it was actually purchased by a JDB, then sold back to an OC, such a transfer could very well subject the OC to the FDCPA. I'm not saying that the courts would rule that way, but there is a possibility that they would. They would have purchased a defaulted debt. I would argue that they received assignment solely for the purpose of collecting the debt. If somebody steps in and posts some court rulings saying the opposite, I would quickly reverse my stance and just gripe that that's how it should be.

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This may in fact be a TCPA violation. Did you provide your cell number to them? Are they calling with an auto dialer, you can usually tell if there is a short delay before they answer when they call you? If you did provide them with your cell number, you need to send them a letter being specific to remove the cell number from their list as you revoke permission for them to call.

After that point it is at least $500 per phone call and quite possibly $1500 for violating the TCPA.

If you did not give them your number and they got it somehow else (i.e. someone told them that was a number to reach you at) then the above violations apply for every call they have made to you.

And just to CYA, make sure to save your phone bills showing the calls you have received AND do a "data dump" of your phone's call log, along with taking a PHOTO of your phones "caller ID" detailing the call for EVERY CALL. DO THIS BEFORE YOUR PHONE "rolls over" and loses this data!! DOCUMENT EVERYTHING!!! If you could tape the calls THAT would be gold!!! (be sure to check your state's laws on taping conversations first!)

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I called the courthouse this morning and the JDB secured this judgment, per the court records. I ordered copies of the complete record, so those should be here sometime next week. I was told there were no additional filings since "entry of judgement."

Also, on 2 of my 3 recent reports, this shows that the OC sold this to the JDB. The third is scarce on details as to WHOM it was sold to, but it states "chargeoff." (Equifax)

I sent a payment a few months ago to the OC's address. I got my payment back in the mail with a short letter from the OC stating that this payment should go to the JDB (listed their address) because it was sold to the JDB.

as far as giving away my number, I just got this phone number recently. I used to be with Alltel, then it merged with verizon, which reassigned a new number to me in the switch. This number isn't listed, and I don't include it in correspondence. There are new inquiries from the OC on my credit report, though. I see a few posts on how to dispute those, so maybe I can get those removed.

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And just to CYA, make sure to save your phone bills showing the calls you have received AND do a "data dump" of your phone's call log, along with taking a PHOTO of your phones "caller ID" detailing the call for EVERY CALL. DO THIS BEFORE YOUR PHONE "rolls over" and loses this data!! DOCUMENT EVERYTHING!!! If you could tape the calls THAT would be gold!!! (be sure to check your state's laws on taping conversations first!)

I'm curious. I dont think I can tape my calls without telling the other person on the line. can i tape them, write down what was said, and use that in the future?

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I'm curious. I dont think I can tape my calls without telling the other person on the line. can i tape them, write down what was said, and use that in the future?

legally--nope, don't think so. but I'm not a lawyer ;) but when they say that "calls are monitored for quality assurance", you can let them know you are doing the same :wink::mrgreen:

but you CAN have a notebook/word doc on computer to take notes WHILE you are talking to them.... :twisted: Make sure to get the persons FULL name, phone number and extention, and their employer's business name and address for EVERY call too!! :mrgreen:

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but when they say that "calls are monitored for quality assurance", you can let them know you are doing the same

Actually, when they advise you of that, they are asking for your consent. If you stay on the line, you consent. They consent by initiating the recorded call and asking that question. Once you have both consented, you are under no obligation then to ask permission to record as both parties have provided consent to recording already. I do not have any handy, but there is a long list of case law stating just that.

Bottom line, if they get to record, you can too.

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