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Should you file appearance even if you don't plan on fighting that hard?


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I know it's not a good idea to ignore it and not even file an appearance, but what happens if you file an appearance without the intention of going through all the steps to fight it, mainly because you DO owe the money and you're trying to just get out from under the debt you simply cannot pay. Isn't that opening a big can of worms? He was able to pay the debt when he accrued it at that time, but then things dropped out the bottom and there was no work for almost 2 years. No payments were made and collectors calling like crazy, of course, which he ignored. Now the summons are rolling in. They are probably all legit debts. Just take the judgments or what? There's no way to find loopholes in contracts to get out from under the debt instead of filing bankruptcy? (which he can't afford to do either) What happened to the fact that it's UNSECURED debt? That doesn't hold any water? I'm not confident enough to fill out this paperwork correctly for the steps to come after the appearance, and I don't think he wants to have to go through all the steps or even appear in court, so I think he's giving up. Not sure what I'm asking for here... I guess some light at the end of the tunnel. I wish I could help but I'm so afraid that because of my lack of knowledge, I'll make matters worse if things aren't filled out correctly.

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Its up to him. It takes alot of work and stress to go to court and fight it. I had several times I wanted to give up because it was too much for me. Thank goodness people here spurred me on not to give up.

But its alot of work. If you don't want to do any work then yes, you will lose and you might as well just sit home and not answer but if you are working, they can garnish your wages in most states. Not sure about your state and they can seize your bank accts so you have to avoid leaving money in there and they may get other assets if you have more than BR allows. If you have alot of bills and don't want to fight them then maybe BR is the best option for you or you could pay the game for a year, ask to go to trial, and save your $$ for BR so you can file before right before trial.

Edited by chiquita55
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Yeah, I think I should go for Usaggi555's comment. This is actually a hard decision to make. When you go for a fight, you'd only give off a whole lot of money, which of course you have to pay the lawyers for even if you lose the case. However, it's still worth trying.

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Yeah, I think I should go for Usaggi555's comment. This is actually a hard decision to make. When you go for a fight, you'd only give off a whole lot of money, which of course you have to pay the lawyers for even if you lose the case. However, it's still worth trying.

I was willing to rack up $50k in attorney's fees and file for BK7 if I lost, thereby winning by not paying them a single dime. I think that attitude helped me chase them away.

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I was willing to rack up $50k in attorney's fees and file for BK7 if I lost, thereby winning by not paying them a single dime. I think that attitude helped me chase them away.

The old saying, "Fear a person with nothing to lose," is dead on in cases such as these.

If one is filing BK if they lose, that is a person with nothing to lose.

Throw into the mix that person with nothing to lose is willing to turn the case into a three ring circus, you really have an expensive fight on your hands.

There is a cheesy 80's comdey movie called From the Hip. It's about a young attorney. He takes the case of filthy rich guy. The client's only demand is he drag out the case for at least three days and cost the other side more than they will collect. He even tells the atty to not even try to win, just drag it out.

There is a scene where a witness uses the word a$$ and the judge strikes it from the record. The young atty then asks for a side bar and then a special hearing to determine the admissibility of the word a$$. He carts in thousands of books using the word a$$ and rambles on with absurb arguments.

When he is done the client just starts dying laughing. He is so happy he demands the law firm make the young atty a partner.

I love that scene. That's all I can think about when I read certain posters talking about court battles with junk debt buyers.

USAGI555,

Have you seen that movie, and if so, am I accurate about you? :D

Edited by Coltfan1972
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The old saying, "Fear a person with nothing to lose," is dead on in cases such as these.

If one is filing BK if they lose, that is a person with nothing to lose.

Throw into the mix that person with nothing to lose is willing to turn the case into a three ring circus, you really have an expensive fight on your hands.

There is a cheesy 80's comdey movie called From the Hip. It's about a young attorney. He takes a case of filthy rich guy. The client's only demand is he drag out the case for at least three days and cost the other side more than they will collect. He even tells the atty to not even try to win, just drag it out.

There is a scene where a witness uses the word a$$ and the strikes it from the record. The young atty then asks for a side bar and then a special hearing to determine the admissibility of the word a$$. He carts in thousands of books using the word a$$ and rambles on with absurb arguments.

When he is done the client just starts dying laughing. He is so happy he demands the law firm make the young atty a partner.

I love that scene. That's all I can think about when I read certain posters talking about court battles with junk debt buyers.

USAGI555,

Have you seen that movie, and if so, am I accurate about you? :D

I have not seen that movie. It could have been me had I not been so stressed out. It was more of a "you dirty sonsabitches ain't gettin' nothin' from me and its gonna cost you" attitude. I was getting prepared to go after their evidence first. If that didn't work, I was working on a whole line of other defenses. My case had some fairly unique factors that made that possible though. When their own statement says something like "purchases through 09/2004," and the credit limit plus the amount over the credit limit does not add up to the balance, it opens the door for all sorts of things.

However, all of that was rendered moot because they just couldn't help it when it came to doing really, really stupid things. I think what finally pushed them over the edge was when I noticed them that they and their client had failed to act in good faith, and sent them a disclosure statement that included most of the dirt that I had dug up on them. This dirt included a list of cases filed in a 3 month period that was almost complete with regards to both Citibank and their attorneys. I also included my affiant's blog. (That was probably not admissable as I had been stonewalled with regards to getting her info and had been unable to authenticate it, but hey, its worth a shot and I would have had a redoux had I failed anyway.) On top of that was all of the communications that they had sent me and I had sent them. Everything combined painted a pretty bad picture. Quite possibly bad enough result in a default in my favor. Boy, would that have been embarrassing.

My cousin said he would have been handing out sanctions upon request over some of the things that they tried to pull on me were it in his courtroom.

I also don't think that their attorneys wanted to argue about SEC filings either. 8-)

Edited by usagi555
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we can offer our own stories and experiences to help you. But know this the people suing you have real problems proving their cases because of the way they continually fire and lay-off people with actual knowledge about the proof. many judges are on the fence one way or another.

The deciding factor is: Can you work past your fear of failure, shame, and hopelessness(which are natural) and maybe try for a better deal. You see you can win if you devote 3 hrs. a day to learning how to win.

If not then default really won't save you any money as you cannot pay right now. Compared to the interest the will be able to charge(~22%) from default versus a judgment against you for the maximum allowed by your state (~10%) and attorneys fees of rough;y 400-500 dollars you will see that fighting is going to seriously reduce the amount you will have to pay.

It is a matter of doing the necessary things to reduce the amount you have to pay. They are using the court to bully you, use it against them to reduce the overall amount you have to pay, make them lose face in court and potentially make the court rule in defendant's favor more, mess up the default proceedings by making the court look askew at their default evidence, and delay paying for up to a year while you save up for a settlement poke.

It is up to you but if it where me since they could have set up a repayment plan but refused, have probably smashed your credit rating, possibly ruined chances for advancment or new job, would make them pay and put up or shut up.

If you do things correctly you will see them sculk off.

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Time is of the essence on this matter, one, because the return date is January 24, and two, because neither one of us has a lot of time to devote to research and filling out forms and papers. I'm not sure about the garnishment part... I think he's at the "who cares" part of the whole thing. I offered to do the best I could, but wasn't sure if I could be successful, and felt that if it failed, it would just make matters worse. So you're saying even if he fails, it would be better than the default judgment? And if he DOES fail, he can then just file bankruptcy and make it go away anyway? If he wins for a dismissal, does that mean the debt goes away, or is it still out there for OTHER CA's to snatch up? From what I understand, as of February, the SoL will be up on this one. His last payment was Feb 2009. Do they go according to the last payment made or the date of charge off or what? I've heard different things on that and can't find anything in the CT Practice Book.

If I can talk him into doing this, I'll be here daily picking everyone's brain, you know... LOL! I work full time and only have evenings and weekends to do this. He works in the food service industry and doesn't get home until after 9 pm and by that time, he's pretty burned out and probably wouldn't be able to focus on anything this complicated. If this DOES go through, I'll be sure to get him on his laptop on weekends to research what happens in court and what he should be prepared for in any occasion. I have a hard time even dragging him to the computer for me to type the form! He's just so done with the whole thing...which I'm sure is what CA's and such hope for.

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Time is of the essence on this matter, one, because the return date is January 24, and two, because neither one of us has a lot of time to devote to research and filling out forms and papers. I'm not sure about the garnishment part... I think he's at the "who cares" part of the whole thing. I offered to do the best I could, but wasn't sure if I could be successful, and felt that if it failed, it would just make matters worse. So you're saying even if he fails, it would be better than the default judgment? And if he DOES fail, he can then just file bankruptcy and make it go away anyway? If he wins for a dismissal, does that mean the debt goes away, or is it still out there for OTHER CA's to snatch up? From what I understand, as of February, the SoL will be up on this one. His last payment was Feb 2009. Do they go according to the last payment made or the date of charge off or what? I've heard different things on that and can't find anything in the CT Practice Book.

If I can talk him into doing this, I'll be here daily picking everyone's brain, you know... LOL! I work full time and only have evenings and weekends to do this. He works in the food service industry and doesn't get home until after 9 pm and by that time, he's pretty burned out and probably wouldn't be able to focus on anything this complicated. If this DOES go through, I'll be sure to get him on his laptop on weekends to research what happens in court and what he should be prepared for in any occasion. I have a hard time even dragging him to the computer for me to type the form! He's just so done with the whole thing...which I'm sure is what CA's and such hope for.

We cannot say what's best for him. He may already qualify for BK7, in which case, that might be the best option. As for the debt going away, that's not always true. They can dismiss without prejudice, then come back at him, or sell the debt to a JDB who can come back at him. I can also attest to the fact that even when you have a dismissal with prejudice, backed by a letter with a judge's signature stating that the matter had been adjudged, they'll still sometimes try to collect. It's just that you have much more leverage to go away when you have that kind of documentation. The entire industry is completely bullheaded and refuses to listen.

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The SOL should start the month and year you first became delinquent on the account. The last time you paid something on the acct.

I am one of those people who had nothing to lose. My only income was a disability check they could not garnish and I had no other assets they could garnish so I fought them.

I would think heavily on filing a BK if you have alot of debt. Get rid of it all and start new. Stop paying on things and save the $$ to file the BR. If you were both working I would say to forget about it but with you both working, perhaps they could garnish you both.

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They cannot do anything to me. This is not my debt - I'm not involved with the account in any way, shape or form. We are not married. I just moved back here about 2 years ago. His account went delinquent before I even got here!

He's decided to fight it, but I'm thinking he'll probably end up in BK anyway, considering the fact that there are two other accounts out there that are in collections. Just haven't gotten summons for them yet.

So the debt doesn't go away even if you win with prejudice? Some other collector can come along and try to collect, yes? If that's the case, he needs to rethink BK. I think he was going to do that anyway, but because of things I read here, decided to fight. I just wish I knew which was the best answer! Easier but not cheaper to go BK, I guess... but it does make it ALL go away if he qualifies, which I'm sure he should be able to with what he makes...

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They cannot do anything to me. This is not my debt - I'm not involved with the account in any way, shape or form. We are not married. I just moved back here about 2 years ago. His account went delinquent before I even got here!

He's decided to fight it, but I'm thinking he'll probably end up in BK anyway, considering the fact that there are two other accounts out there that are in collections. Just haven't gotten summons for them yet.

So the debt doesn't go away even if you win with prejudice? Some other collector can come along and try to collect, yes? If that's the case, he needs to rethink BK. I think he was going to do that anyway, but because of things I read here, decided to fight. I just wish I knew which was the best answer! Easier but not cheaper to go BK, I guess... but it does make it ALL go away if he qualifies, which I'm sure he should be able to with what he makes...

In my case, it should have gone away. I'm just pointing out what a cluster the financial industry is so that you know what you're dealing with. People don't communicate what's going on, even within the same company. There are stories of collectors going after people for debts that were discharged in BK7. It's not always about whether or not you actually owe the debt, it's sometimes about whether or not they can make you pay it.

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I have PM'd you extensively, and you seem not to listen to what I told you. Your boyfriend has no clue as to how the courts work and he does not have the desire to fight this. Also, he does not have the time to learn. He is facing the exact same law firm and plaintiff in the exact same courthouse as myself. I know this place. I know the judges and how they rule. I also know how the law firm operates. They are completely incompetent and break all the rules because they know you won't know any better. This court works fast, they do not allow cases to languish for years with no activity. This law firm works fast and sloppy, they will hit you with several things at once and hope you won't respond. I intend to teach them a very valuable lesson, but that's me. I gave you the name of an excellent local bankruptcy attorney, I suggest you contact him. Be advised judgments in CT are good for 25 years with interest accruing. That means you can't own anything under the homestead limit for that period of time. This may not be what he wants to hear, but take my word for it, that's the way it is.

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I know you did, Legal, but then I read a few other posts basically saying there's really nothing to lose since BK can always be filed even if a judgment is ruled by losing.

I think he mainly filed the appearance to prevent the default judgment and is planning on speaking to a BK attorney in the meantime. I don't know if that's the smart thing to do, but he was trying to avoid the default judgment to get a bit of time to talk to an attorney. I gave him the name you gave me.

The BK atty can file a new appearance or amended or whatever, right?

He's gonna kill me pretty soon cuz I keep going back and forth with doing this then not doing this.

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I know you did, Legal, but then I read a few other posts basically saying there's really nothing to lose since BK can always be filed even if a judgment is ruled by losing.

I think he mainly filed the appearance to prevent the default judgment and is planning on speaking to a BK attorney in the meantime. I don't know if that's the smart thing to do, but he was trying to avoid the default judgment to get a bit of time to talk to an attorney. I gave him the name you gave me.

The BK atty can file a new appearance or amended or whatever, right?

He's gonna kill me pretty soon cuz I keep going back and forth with doing this then not doing this.

Let me restate my take on the situation:

He is being sued over a debt.

He is not willing to fight like the dickens, but does not want a default entered in the plaintiff's favor.

He did file a response.

Is this correct? If so, he should certainly talk to the BK attorney, because barring some fluke, that's probably going to be his only way out of this. I personally see very little room for waffling on that, assuming that what I posted above is correct.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I get your boyfriends position on this whole thing. He is confused and scared and thinking everyone is coming to the trough. well he filed an appearance and now has time to dance. Believe me I can help anyone to overcome the fear of court.

If he wants to fight a little to try to make a better deal then he should file an answer this will kick the can further down the road. frankly He is going to need this time to save up for the BK attorney. they answer like the ones typically filed here should kick the can down the road.

If he just says Fugit then that is valid also.

and lastly My most important point, we are here to help either way. Personally you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink, but if you walk away and leave him he will drink after a day in the hot sun.

BK is going to run a pretty penny(believe me I know) so if he wants to be stubborn about it breakdown the economics I pointed out in my first post.

If he doesn't want help I know about 100 people who do.

Darwin was correct I guess

Edited by Seadragon
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We offered good advice that lives on and may help other people with it.

My final thoughts on this If you are a loved one or a spouse on here to help someone who doesn't want to even come here and read a little to help the situation, it will usually end in judgment for plaintiff.

The ostrich theory of litigation only works for plaintiffs

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