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HSBC/Beneficial - need help understanding what to do


parkway28
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Hi! Brand-spankin' new here, though I have been reading for awhile. Here's the scoop:

I have had an account with Beneficial for awhile, paid on it like I was supposed to for years, of course never got anywhere with paying it down (wish I had never gone with them!). My husband had an account with them too - that is for a different discussion. We both did their modification for six months, and at the end of that time, the payments and interest shot back up, we paid for awhile, but then could not continue and decided to stop paying them, sacrificing one account instead of several others. I have a medical collection on my credit report from 2008 (two actually, one big one small) and HSBC/Bene was the only other dark mark on the credit report.

For the last couple of months, Bene hasn't been on my credit report at all - my husband's credit report did not show his either, now it does, as a charge-off, so I feel that's coming for me too.

I got a letter beginning of November 2011 from ACE (Associated Creditors Exchange) about this account, and one time actually answered the phone because I was tired of getting the calls and was ready to just face it. "Silvia" lead me to believe she was with Bene (not ACE) and we spoke briefly, mainly me telling her I didn't have time to talk but wanted to, I took down her info and checked it on the net, to discover it was ACE...I did not call them back.

Fast forward to now, January 2012. I have had calls from Alan at the office of Larry Roach, as a rep for CACH LLC. Alan is rather decent, though I do not trust him. We have talked a couple of times (probably too much) and he is trying to iron out a deal for me. :? I have recorded every conversation we've had. I was supposed to call him back last night, and decided to try calling Bene instead. When I finally got someone at Bene, they told me I needed to call this other number, which turned out to be ACE - I thought it was another part of Bene. I think I got lucky and spoke with a new guy, only his third day on the job. He was nicer than he probably should have been and I am sure he told me more than he should. He told me, 'good news! it's not charged off, and it's not with us, it's going back to Beneficial. It's just in limbo right now...give it about a week or so, it should be back at Beneficial by then." He supposedly got that info from his supervisor.

Anyway back to alan/Roach/CACH - the letter from Roach (dunning?) dated 1/19/2012 states that 'CACH has purchased my HSBC account and they are giving me another opportunity to resolve the outstanding balance due'. What do I do? Send letter of debt validation? I do/did have an account with HSBC, and I would like to settle, but I don't want to keep paying over and over for this....CACH is a junk debt buyer, yes? How do I end this?? What do I do next? And I'm guessing I should no longer talk to Alan about a settlement? Does any good ever come from talking with someone? (btw, Alan was saying that I had until Jan. 31st to make a deal...apparently bad things happen after that.)

Thank you for reading through this, and for any constructive help you can provide. This disappearing from my credit report is a little confusing...too bad it can't just *poof* to nowhere for good.

Best to you~parkway28

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It appears to me that initially Beneficial hired ACE to try to collect on the debt.

But now, they have sold it to CACH. Yes CACH is a Junk Debt Buyer. So Beneficial and ACE are out of the picture.

CACH has hired Larry Roach to try to get money from you. The only Larry Roach I can find with Google is in Ohio. Which means they can't sue you in North Carolina. Larry Roach is acting as a debt collector, trying to subtly intimidate you with the fact that they are a law firm. Their business model is "Hire us to collect your debts. A letter from an attorney is more effective at getting debtors to settle."

It appears that Roach has complied with the FDCPA by sending you a dunning letter after their initial phone contact. (They're supposed to do this within 5 days)

I would totally stop talking to any of these people on the phone. Unless you get some sort of perverse pleasure from it.

In your shoes, (and I've been in them) I would send a DV letter. In my DV letter I tell them I dispute the debt, request verification of the debt, and request the name and address of the original creditor. (This parrots the language in the FDCPA). Then I tell them that verification is to include proof I owe money, proof they are the ones to whom money is owed, and a complete accounting of how the amount was arrived at including charges, payments, interest, penalties and fees. Yes, I know, many forum members will jump to point out that this is not required for "verification." I don't care. This is what I require to work this out. How can you negotiate a reasonable settlement without having any idea of what they might have done to inflate the amount.

Then I tell them I request all communication to be in writing so I can keep them in my records. Yes, I know, the FDCPA doesn't have the means to enforce this (although this is the subject of another debate). But this lets them know they won't be able to reach me by phone.

Now, it's my guess that since the debt collectors don't really like to work hard, especially the ones hired by CACH, upon getting your DV letter, they will send it back and eventually you'll hear from another collector, and you start the DV process over again.

Oh, and the bad things that happen if you don't settle by Jan. 31? Alan won't get a monthly bonus. I can't tell you how many "ultimatums" I got from one company. But until the contact comes from a lawyer licensed in your state, collectors are pretty toothless.

Good luck.

DH

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If Beneficial's entry on your CR doesn't state the account was "sold/transferred" or "sold to another lender", I'd contact Beneficial. Ask them if they still own the account or if they've sold it.

Right now, it's not on my credit report *at all* - totally gone. Needless to say, my CR and scores look better now (except for a few hard inquiries from HFC/Bene). My husband's account and mine were about 2 weeks apart on due dates and reporting, with anything on his account seeming to happen before mine. His disappeared from his CR, and now is back as a charge-off, so I suppose that will happen with me too.

I plan to keep trying to call Bene next week to see what I can find out, and today getting a DV letter out to Roach/CACH.

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To Whom It May Concern:

I am responding to your letter received 1/23/2012 regarding the creditor listed above. Per my rights under the FDCPA, I request that you validate this debt.

Please attach copies of the following documents:

1. Agreement with your client that authorizes you to collect on this alleged debt.

2. Agreement that bears signature of the alleged debtor where he promises to pay the original creditor.

3. Complete payment history on this account, to prove that the amount you wish to collect is accurate.

4. A complete accounting of how the amount was arrived at including charges, payments, interest, penalties and fees.

I request that all communication be in writing. Please respond within 30 days. Thank you for your assistance.

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To Whom It May Concern:

I am responding to your letter received 1/23/2012 regarding the creditor listed above. Per my rights under the FDCPA, I request that you validate this debt.

Please attach copies of the following documents:

1. Agreement with your client that authorizes you to collect on this alleged debt.

2. Agreement that bears signature of the alleged debtor where he promises to pay the original creditor.

3. Complete payment history on this account, to prove that the amount you wish to collect is accurate.

4. A complete accounting of how the amount was arrived at including charges, payments, interest, penalties and fees.

I request that all communication be in writing. Please respond within 30 days. Thank you for your assistance.

Unfortunately, none of what you've requested is required by the FDCPA in order to validate a debt. All that's required is the name of the original creditor and the amount (and a copy of a judgment, if one exists).

In addition, they don't have to respond within 30 days. I take i, the letter sent by the Roach office contained the 30 day notice? That simply means if you request validation within that period, they cannot attempt collection until they validate. They can wait 6 months to validate. They just can't attempt to collect during that 6 months.

I would omit the list and the 30 day sentence. Short, simple, and to the point.

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I don't think so. Once an account goes to a lawyer licensed to practice in your state, he/she's going to send you a letter first.

Regards,

DH

Perhaps they're supposed to, but that's not always the case. If the JDB has sent letters attempting to collect and hasn't gotten anywhere, they simply go right for the lawsuit.

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Unfortunately, none of what you've requested is required by the FDCPA in order to validate a debt. All that's required is the name of the original creditor and the amount (and a copy of a judgment, if one exists).

In addition, they don't have to respond within 30 days. I take i, the letter sent by the Roach office contained the 30 day notice? That simply means if you request validation within that period, they cannot attempt collection until they validate. They can wait 6 months to validate. They just can't attempt to collect during that 6 months.

I would omit the list and the 30 day sentence. Short, simple, and to the point.

Their letter references Creditor (CACH) Original Creditor (HSBC) Acct #, Original Acct#, and Total claimed due.

Dear parkway28,

CACH, LLC has purchased your HSBC Consumer Lending USA Inc. account. On behalf of the new creditor, we would like to give you another opportunity to resolve the outstanding balance due.

If you, the consumer, notify us in writing within the next 30 day period that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, we will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of a judgement against you, the consumer, and a copy of such verification or judgement will be mailed to you by our office.

Upon your written request within the 30 day period, we will provide you with the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor.

Please take this opportunity to contact an account representative at our toll free number (blah). We look forward to your anticipated cooperation.

blahblahblah

Larry Roach

In essence, haven't they verified the debt by virtue of their letter? Sorry, this is a little confusing to me. (and thank you for talking about this!)

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When Alan was talking with me, the end of January thing was that by the end of January, my settlement amount could be 10xxx.xx as opposed the 15xxx.xx that they are listing as everything I owe. I suppose there's no mercy on Feb. 1, more interest/fees are added....a scare tactic I guess (and probably right about his January bonus!).

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But until the contact comes from a lawyer licensed in your state, collectors are pretty toothless.

Good luck.

DH

What about some 'national attorney network' that we heard about in relation to husband's Bene account...is that baloney, or do they have some network from state to state to handle things in states they are not able to? Another scare tactic?

Thank you!!

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Their letter references Creditor (CACH) Original Creditor (HSBC) Acct #, Original Acct#, and Total claimed due.

Dear parkway28,

CACH, LLC has purchased your HSBC Consumer Lending USA Inc. account. On behalf of the new creditor, we would like to give you another opportunity to resolve the outstanding balance due.

If you, the consumer, notify us in writing within the next 30 day period that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, we will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of a judgement against you, the consumer, and a copy of such verification or judgement will be mailed to you by our office.

Upon your written request within the 30 day period, we will provide you with the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor.

Please take this opportunity to contact an account representative at our toll free number (blah). We look forward to your anticipated cooperation.

blahblahblah

Larry Roach

In essence, haven't they verified the debt by virtue of their letter? Sorry, this is a little confusing to me. (and thank you for talking about this!)

They could argue that they validated with that letter by stating they purchased it from HSBC, but look at what else they stated: "if different from the current creditor". The current creditor is Cach. HSBC is different from the current creditor.

Where did you hear about a "national attorney network"?

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Where did you hear about a "national attorney network"?

That's the other story. My husband's Bene account - we got calls on it first and the person there at Nations Recovery Center, Inc. (NRC) said they were a part of a national attorney's network, that they themselves couldn't do anything in our state, but someone in their network could. I am embarrassed to say that we ended up working something out with them and I only hope they stick to their word. All conversations were recorded. I wish we had known more before talking with them. :(

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That's the other story. My husband's Bene account - we got calls on it first and the person there at Nations Recovery Center, Inc. (NRC) said they were a part of a national attorney's network, that they themselves couldn't do anything in our state, but someone in their network could. I am embarrassed to say that we ended up working something out with them and I only hope they stick to their word. All conversations were recorded. I wish we had known more before talking with them. :(

They are a debt collection agency. How they would be part of a national attorney network, I don't know. If they represented themselves as attorneys when they're not, that's an FDCPA violation.

You don't need to be embarrassed. Most people are afraid of debt collectors. On the other hand, you were very wise to record the conversations, because you've protected yourself. Nothing to be embarrassed about there.

Are they collecting for the original creditor? If so, I'd make sure the OC is getting paid.

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They are a debt collection agency. How they would be part of a national attorney network, I don't know. If they represented themselves as attorneys when they're not, that's an FDCPA violation.

You don't need to be embarrassed. Most people are afraid of debt collectors. On the other hand, you were very wise to record the conversations, because you've protected yourself. Nothing to be embarrassed about there.

Are they collecting for the original creditor? If so, I'd make sure the OC is getting paid.

Looking at a dunning letter we got after the fact, I see a reference to "Atlantic Credit" so looks like a similar situation to mine, except no mention of an attorney's office on the paper. Are we totally screwed? We unfortunately did checks by phone for a sum now and six months of payments :| I didn't want to but I felt like there was no choice.

Does this need to be a different thread? It is ultimately also about a Bene account.

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Looking at a dunning letter we got after the fact, I see a reference to "Atlantic Credit" so looks like a similar situation to mine, except no mention of an attorney's office on the paper. Are we totally screwed? We unfortunately did checks by phone for a sum now and six months of payments :| I didn't want to but I felt like there was no choice.

Does this need to be a different thread? It is ultimately also about a Bene account.

Do you mean the account you settled with NRC was for Atlantic Credit? If so, Atlantic Credit appears to be a JDB. Did you get anything in writing regarding the amount to be paid?

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Do you mean the account you settled with NRC was for Atlantic Credit? If so, Atlantic Credit appears to be a JDB. Did you get anything in writing regarding the amount to be paid?

Not yet. Just my notes and the recorded conversation for proof.

Edited by parkway28
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Not yet. Just my notes and the recorded conversation for proof.

If it were me, I'd get written confirmation that once the agreed upon amount is paid, the debt is considered paid and settled. I'd also contact Atlantic to make sure they're getting paid. Everything is probably fine, but that's just how I've handled CAs.

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So, I mailed the DV letter to the Law Office of Larry Roach on Saturday, and got the little green card back today - but no signature or anything on it. No date, nothing. Is there a best way to document at least that I received the card back today? (thank you!!)

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So, I mailed the DV letter to the Law Office of Larry Roach on Saturday, and got the little green card back today - but no signature or anything on it. No date, nothing. Is there a best way to document at least that I received the card back today? (thank you!!)

You don't really need the date the card was returned to you. You need the date Roach received it. It should be stamped with a date. Also, you can go to the USPS website and enter the tracking number. That will show the date the letter was delivered to the law office address. I'd print it out.

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You don't really need the date the card was returned to you. You need the date Roach received it. It should be stamped with a date. Also, you can go to the USPS website and enter the tracking number. That will show the date the letter was delivered to the law office address. I'd print it out.

I figured if I at least showed when I received it, and when it was sent from the PO, it would suggest a chain of events. I'm really surprised there was nothing on it at all, except for whatever I wrote. Thank you - I've printed out the delivery detail (duh! didn't think about tracking), and now I suppose I wait.

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So, I mailed the DV letter to the Law Office of Larry Roach on Saturday, and got the little green card back today - but no signature or anything on it. No date, nothing. Is there a best way to document at least that I received the card back today? (thank you!!)

I had this happen to me once.

So I went down to the post office and complained to the postmaster. They "investigated", allegedly called the postmaster in Delaware or wherever, but in the end they couldn't provide me with any proof of delivery.

So I made them allow me to send another letter, also CRRR, for free. In it I put a copy of the original letter, plus a new cover letter explaining the ineptitude of the post office and their failure to confirm delivery, and saying that since my first letter was within the 30 day period I expected my rights under the FDCPA to be in effect.

Good luck.

DH

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