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Another question - Is it permissible for a creditor and the creditor's attorneys obtain a copy of my credit report before filing a suit in court without written consent from me? Citibank and their attorney's have accessed mine multiple times during the past two years.

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Another question - Is it permissible for a creditor and the creditor's attorneys obtain a copy of my credit report before filing a suit in court without written consent from me? Citibank and their attorney's have accessed mine multiple times during the past two years.

SC has no case law on the subject. Other courts in the country are divided. The FCRA states:

(F) otherwise has a legitimate business need for the information —

(i) in connection with a business transaction that is initiated by the consumer; or

The attorneys would argue that they had permissible purpose because they had a legitimate business need for the information, because you had a business relationship and debt with their client.

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The attorneys would argue that they had permissible purpose because they had a legitimate business need for the information, because you had a business relationship and debt with their client.

But the FTC has said that attorneys do not. You could easily make out the arguement that the attorney pulled to determine if it was worthwhile to sue or craft a pre-litigation settlement. However if the lawyer also runs a collection operation outside of just litigation he can argue that the collection operation did the pull.

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But the FTC has said that attorneys do not. You could easily make out the arguement that the attorney pulled to determine if it was worthwhile to sue or craft a pre-litigation settlement. However if the lawyer also runs a collection operation outside of just litigation he can argue that the collection operation did the pull.

I agree with you. I don't think an attorney should be able to do that, but there's conflicting case law on the subject. Since SC has no precedent, it would up to the judge. But, it might be worth it to counterclaim with an FCRA violation.

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I think you'd have a stronger case if the account in question had been written off or closed and no other account existed with that creditor. What possible reason could they have then, other than to do a fishing expedition related to a potential law suit?

The account was closed by the creditor months ago, and the reports were all obtained recently. I do not have any additional accounts with Citibank. Another company who obtained a copy of my credit report recently? Citicorp Credit Services....the employer of the person who wrote the affidavit.... I also do not have any accounts with this affilliate of Citibank.

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CCSI services Citibank accounts and maintain an affidavit mill in Missouri. If I were CCSI and was defending against an FCRA lawsuit, I would be arguing that any permissible purpose that Citibank had to pull the report would also cover CCSI as a result of the servicing aspect.

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CCSI services Citibank accounts and maintain an affidavit mill in Missouri. If I were CCSI and was defending against an FCRA lawsuit, I would be arguing that any permissible purpose that Citibank had to pull the report would also cover CCSI as a result of the servicing aspect.

What permissible purpose would the creditor's attorney cite? They also made this public record with the reason given - collection purpose. Is this legal pre-judgment? Also, if they are a collection agency that has purchased the debt, isn't it fraud to present themselves as attorneys for Citibank? Or state Citibank is the Plaintiff?

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But the FTC has said that attorneys do not. You could easily make out the arguement that the attorney pulled to determine if it was worthwhile to sue or craft a pre-litigation settlement. However if the lawyer also runs a collection operation outside of just litigation he can argue that the collection operation did the pull.

TIME LINE

I was served, I filed a answer, I checked credit report, law firm did hard check on credit after I filed my answer, then another summons for a different cc, I must file answer within 1 week. What the take on that situation? I just checked and law firm is not a licensed collector in AZ nor is Midland funding.

Edited by Beergoggles
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@ Beer-In your case, the FCRA violation would be committed by the attorneys...

In 2008, I was sued by a JDB- after getting my CR, I noticed that both the JDB and the law firm did a hard pull on my CR 1 week before filing (in the wrong county to boot). When I filed suit, I did it for an FDCPA violation (venue) and FCRA violation (non-permissible purpose based on FTC opinion). After 17 months, I won on summary judgment on both points.

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What permissible purpose would the creditor's attorney cite? They also made this public record with the reason given - collection purpose. Is this legal pre-judgment? Also, if they are a collection agency that has purchased the debt, isn't it fraud to present themselves as attorneys for Citibank? Or state Citibank is the Plaintiff?

I'm not saying that they do have a PP, just that I would argue if it applied to Citibank, it also applies to CCSI.

A lot of what you mention would be fraud, but can you prove that it actually happened? If it did, and you start hitting them with legitimate discovery requests, they'll object like crazy, then run away. If it didn't and you start hitting them with legitimate discovery requests, they'll object like crazy, and then may or may not run away. A lot of the banks and their attorneys are so sloppy that it often looks like they aren't the real party of interest when they actually are.

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@ Beer-In your case, the FCRA violation would be committed by the attorneys...

In 2008, I was sued by a JDB- after getting my CR, I noticed that both the JDB and the law firm did a hard pull on my CR 1 week before filing (in the wrong county to boot). When I filed suit, I did it for an FDCPA violation (venue) and FCRA violation (non-permissible purpose based on FTC opinion). After 17 months, I won on summary judgment on both points.

So I would file a counter claim when I file my answer? I need to find the statute to quote. I am going to do that as well and kick it right back at them. Any info you have about my particular situation would be great. I would like to talk more about this. I want to put my foot so far up their a$$es they will be able to chew my toenails.

p.s. I show ask if they checked my credit in my discovery which I am sending in first of next week.

Edited by Beergoggles
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What permissible purpose would the creditor's attorney cite? They also made this public record with the reason given - collection purpose. Is this legal pre-judgment? Also, if they are a collection agency that has purchased the debt, isn't it fraud to present themselves as attorneys for Citibank? Or state Citibank is the Plaintiff?

Citibank is the Plaintiff. Smith Debnam is a debt collection law firm representing Citbank. I'm sure it's happened before, but it's not often that a law firm would purchase a debt, then claim to be suing for the OC.

Look at your credit report to see what Citi is reporting. If the account is merely charged off, then Citi still owns it. If Citi sold it, their entry would state "sold/transferred" or "sold to another lender".

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So I would file a counter claim when I file my answer? I need to find the statute to quote. I am going to do that as well and kick it right back at them. Any info you have about my particular situation would be great. I would like to talk more about this. I want to put my foot so far up their a$$es they will be able to chew my toenails.

You cannot counterclaim against the law firm - you have to file a separate suit against them.

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You cannot counterclaim against the law firm - you have to file a separate suit against them.

That's interesting, and this may be an NM thing, but I have seen instances where the law firm had third party claims leveled against them and the courts allowed it to proceed.

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Citibank is the Plaintiff. Smith Debnam is a debt collection law firm representing Citbank. I'm sure it's happened before, but it's not often that a law firm would purchase a debt, then claim to be suing for the OC.

Look at your credit report to see what Citi is reporting. If the account is merely charged off, then Citi still owns it. If Citi sold it, their entry would state "sold/transferred" or "sold to another lender".

Charged off

I don't see how either should have access - particularly the law firm.

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Charged off

I don't see how either should have access - particularly the law firm.

A credit card company has permissible purpose because they have a business relationship with you. I don't think law firms should have access either, but my opinion doesn't matter. It's what the judge thinks that counts. If SC had case law, we'd know for sure. Unfortunately, if any courts in the state have heard the issue, they haven't published any opinions.

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If I were CCSI and was defending against an FCRA lawsuit, I would be arguing that any permissible purpose that Citibank had to pull the report would also cover CCSI as a result of the servicing aspect.

Yes, but there has been no FCRA suit filed. I see this as a typical blatant attempt to conduct stealth discovery before the fact so as to avoid doing it properly if they even get a judgment. They do this to see if they have any grounds for a fraudulent transfer, which they would otherwise have a very difficult time proving, also to discover bank accounts, assets, etc. Just finished your car loan? OOOOH yeah. Be right there with the hook. I would sue. At the very least, I would send an intent to sue letter with a copy of the proposed complaint attached.

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If I were CCSI and was defending against an FCRA lawsuit, I would be arguing that any permissible purpose that Citibank had to pull the report would also cover CCSI as a result of the servicing aspect.

Yes, but there has been no FCRA suit filed. I see this as a typical blatant attempt to conduct stealth discovery before the fact so as to avoid doing it properly if they even get a judgment. They do this to see if they have any grounds for a fraudulent transfer, which they would otherwise have a very difficult time proving, also to discover bank accounts, assets, etc. Just finished your car loan? OOOOH yeah. Be right there with the hook. I would sue. At the very least, I would send an intent to sue letter with a copy of the proposed complaint attached.

Oh, I agree those are the likely reasons that they'd be pulling your reports, but it would turn into a he-said she-said game real quick. I'd prefer to avoid those kinds of battles.

BTW, since you love'em about as much as I do, you might be interested to know that Citi has not only pulled my report since the dismissal, they have also reported since the dismissal. I am in the long drawn out process of calling them on that. The paper trail is started and is only going to grow longer, and it's getting put together by somebody who has already been in the court system. I'll say hi to them for you if you want!

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Oh, I agree those are the likely reasons that they'd be pulling your reports, but it would turn into a he-said she-said game real quick. I'd prefer to avoid those kinds of battles.

I agree with Usagi. Unless you have proof of your claims, not only could you lose your case, but you could be stuck with your opponent's legal costs.

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Agreed, he would have to document everything from start to finish. I stick with permissible purpose versus a fishing expedition. Make them explain it to a judge, I doubt they can. No open account? You're suing me? Why pull my CR? Plan on issuing me another credit card, pal? I doubt it. We have no "relationship" other than litigation, which is not exactly consumer friendly. I'd hit them with rogs immediately on this, see what they do.

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This is for Arizona

See answers below in bold.

Thank you.

Have a great day.

Paula Calapez

Administrative Assistant II

Arizona Department of Financial Institutions

Licensing Division

2910 N. 44th Street, Suite 310

Phoenix, AZ 85018

More information about licensing and AzDFI can be obtained at Arizona Department of Financial Institutions

___________________________________________

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable federal or state law. It is solely for use by intended recipients. Unauthorized interception, review, use, copy or disclosure is prohibited and may violate applicable laws including the Electronic Communications Privacy Act. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or if it appears you may have received this email in error, please advise me by reply email and immediately delete the message and any attachments from your system.

From: Beergoggles

Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 4:00 PM

To: Licensing AZDFI

Subject: Collection Agencies?

Hello a quick question for you. Are collection agencies required to be licensed in Arizona? [Paula Calapez] Yes.

If yes: Company "A" is collecting without a license in AZ, but their "Parent" company "B" has a license in AZ, is that the same thing as company "A" having the license[Paula Calapez] No.

even though they are different names/companies?[Paula Calapez] Company A should also be licensed.

Thank You

Beegoggles

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