64Dart270 Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Received Letter from Moore Law Group in Santa Ana, CA. Letter states as follows:Notice of intention to sue and incur court costs and legal fees.California Code of Civil Procedure Section 1033((2)Our client has authorized us to file a lawsuit to collect the balance owing on the above referenced account. In addition to seeking a judgement for principle and interest, we will ask the court to award court costs and reasonable attorney's fees.You may be able to settle this account for less than the full balance or to arrange to make payments on the account over time. But, if we cannot reach an agreement to resolve your obligation within ten (10) business days from the date of this letter, we will file a lawsuit.Facts-This is the first and ONLY letter received by this debt collector.Letter is addressed to former married name which was never used on the original (suspected) account.No information regarding account referenced appears on my credit report.Original creditor (American Express) shows a different amount on their online account page. Account listed as closed.Questions;Is it legal to threaten action in ten days?Is it legal to threaten action without offering opportunity to dispute or validate the debt?Can they sue if I request validation.I am NOT going to pay anyone without verifying that they have legal means to collect on the debt. I want to have some ammunition before calling them. I feel they are trying to intimidate me into settling with them for an amount which is not valid. Also, I they they expect a default judgement if I do not pay them. If I owe them, I will pay. But, not until I am sure that they are a legitimate agent of American Express. I will only pay them for the amount actually owed and, only against an agreement received IN WRITING. Any advice?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usagi555 Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Facts-This is the first and ONLY letter received by this debt collector.They have 5 days. Period. If you don't have a letter informing you of your rights pursuant to 15 usc 1692g, sue their asses.Letter is addressed to former married name which was never used on the original (suspected) account.Could be a big deal, could be a curable defect. I don't know enough about the situation.No information regarding account referenced appears on my credit report.There is no requirement to report. There is a requirement that if you report, you report accurately. Original creditor (American Express) shows a different amount on their online account page. Account listed as closed.So you are dealing with an OC, specifically AMEX? Questions;Is it legal to threaten action in ten days?Yup, however, if they don't, you may be able to sue them for not suing you.Is it legal to threaten action without offering opportunity to dispute or validate the debt?You may wind up in a gray area here regarding whether the 1st letter overshadows the (unsent) 1692g letter, assuming they actually send that 1692g letter. Can they sue if I request validation.Not until they validate. However, if you ask for validation, it will likely remove any liability that they have for not suing within 10 days, assuming that they don't. I am NOT going to pay anyone without verifying that they have legal means to collect on the debt. Excellent! Just know that no matter what course of action you take (including paying,) you may get sued. Send a DV tomorrow, and for this particular instance.I dispute this debt in its entirety and demand you validate it.I want to have some ammunition before calling them. I feel they are trying to intimidate me into settling with them for an amount which is not valid. Also, I they they expect a default judgement if I do not pay them. If I owe them, I will pay. But, not until I am sure that they are a legitimate agent of American Express. I will only pay them for the amount actually owed and, only against an agreement received IN WRITING. They are absolutely trying to intimidate you. Any advice??Learn your rules of civil procedure, and start now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadragon Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Then based on the complaint demurre or answer or Motion to dismiss.as far as the Robbins/rosenthal fair debt collections practices act Cal. Civ. Code 1788 violations these are best to accumulate more.If they don't answer the BOP in ten days motion to compel or preclude the giving of evidence.It will cost a bit to answer or respond unless you have a fee waiver(it is worth a shot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coltfan1972 Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Not enough info to know if the atty sending the letter is considered under the FDCPA. If they are, then you have some violations if this is all the letter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64Dart270 Posted February 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 I talked to a friend who is a paralegal at a civil rights law firm. She is calling on the letter today to demand validation. This debt has been bounced around. I have sent validation letters to last two lawyers with no response. This however, is the first time legal action has been threatened, and the first time the lawyer has been located in the state and county I live in. No matter what, I'm likely to end up in court. Just wondering if I should settle the debt directly with Amex and show up to court with a paid receipt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coltfan1972 Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 If you settle the debt you have a 99.9999% chance of them not suing you. They are telling you in the letter they are suing you in 10 days. AMEX would have to auth the lawsuit. Obviously they are not going to auth a lawsuit if you have settled. On a side note, a paralegal can't represent you and calling on your behalf to demand validation is representing you. If the law firm the paralegal works for gets wind of this, your friend, most likely, will be looking for a new employer. I got turned down for a job at a law office just because they were scared of my posts on this website. I don't exactly hide my real real I.D. and they told me somebody might try to sue them for me giving legal advice on the net and then somehow it trickle back to the law firm. They wanted me to sign an agreement to never post online while employed by them. I told them to go pound sand. Your friend is getting ready to most likely get themselves in a ton of trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiquedave Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 I agree that your friend should not be calling on your behalf, not good, besides you really want to have everything documented and recorded if legal in your state.threatening to sue within 10 days when FDCPA gives you 30 to request validation, I know there is precedence on this I have to dig it out.If you are not comfortable with this then try contacting a consumer attorney, why put yourself through hell if you can find someone to take this on a contingency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentWA Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 This is the very same Moore Law Group that has lost so many FDCPA suits it is not funny. I believe I even remember a case they lost on overshadowing from their 10 day law suit letter, but I can not find it at the moment. Now that would be funny to use a case captioned with their name as case law citation in your Motion for Summary Judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64Dart270 Posted February 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Apparently, after doing a little research, these guys are real slime balls. Multiple accounts of filing suits and false service of summons. They prey on defaulters. They often file suit and get a dfault without the defendant ever knowing until it's too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64Dart270 Posted February 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Calling Amex, they stated the debt is owned by NCO group. I have never received any letters or contact from them. Now Moore wants money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legaleagle Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 If your friend wants to help, have him / her (the paralegal) ask one of the attorneys she works for to make the call. Better yet, just send a letter, best to have it on paper when dealing with creeps like this. You wouldn't want some law firm coming back with an unauthorized practice of law charge. It could hurt her employer, attorneys are responsible for the actions of their employees per the rules of professional conduct. I wouldn't be so quick to settle until you find out who you are dealing with. Probably some junk debt buyer. It isn't clear who the potential plaintiff is....aren't they supposed to say? "Our client" doesn't tell you much. I could be their client for all you know. I could use the money, though, if you want to settle...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64Dart270 Posted February 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Drafted letter:02/09/12From: XXXXXXMoore Law Group3710 Susan Street Ste 210Santa Ana, CA 92704Dear Debt Collector:I am writing in response to the letter received from you on date 02/08/12. Pursuant to my rights under federal debt collection laws, I am requesting that you provide validation of this debt. Note this is not a refusal to pay, but a request that your offices provide me with evidence that I have a legal obligation to pay you. Please note that under the FDCPA § 809, I am legally entitled to validation of the aforementioned debt. Validation is requested within 30 days of receipt by certified mail of this letter. Please see FDCPA § 809 Validation of debts: as attached to this letter.Sincerely,XXXXXXX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64Dart270 Posted February 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 They have the wrong name. Wondering which to use. Don't exactly want to disclose my current name to them in case I have some deniability. I am extremely sceptical about the validity of this debt holder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64Dart270 Posted February 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 I wouldn't be so quick to settle until you find out who you are dealing with. Probably some junk debt buyer. It isn't clear who the potential plaintiff is....aren't they supposed to say? "Our client" doesn't tell you much. I could be their client for all you know. I could use the money, though, if you want to settle......They post an AMEX account number on the letter however, AMEX claims NCO owns the debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64Dart270 Posted February 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 I asked my paralegal friend not to do anything without the advice and consent of her Attorney employer. She says she was going to ask her about the case anyway. The attorney is a non-profit civil rights attorney and is generous with advice, and may even make a phone call. Granted, consumer law and civil law are two different disciplines, she is still more of an attorney than I am. In the meantime, I am sending a validation letter. That should at least establish ownership of the debt, provided they comply. If they don't it will be followed up with a second letter disputing validity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentWA Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Make your letter simpler than you have there. "I am writing in response to the letter received from you on date 02/08/12, which is the first communication from you. I dispute this debt, Validation is demanded."Let them figure out what law applies, after all they claim to be FDCPA experts and conduct training for CAs and JDBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legaleagle Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Don't mention the name issue, just attach a copy of the letter they sent. "Validation requested per federal law" is all you really need to say. Love those slant sixes. I have a 300K, betcha know what that is. 413 traffic killer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coltfan1972 Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Calling Amex, they stated the debt is owned by NCO group.Your case (the underlying debt) just went from an almost guaranteed sure fire loss to an almost sure fire winner. On a side note, take the advice below. Shorten that DV letter to the bare basic. You're not the legal counsel for the other side, if they don't know what law(s) apply, let them find out when you sue them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64Dart270 Posted February 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Love those slant sixes. I have a 300K, betcha know what that is. 413 traffic killer.Mine sat for nine years but started right up and ran like a top. Back to legal matters. Sent bare bones simple, "responding to letter/validate me a-holes" letter. Very basic. If they don't validate or sue in 30 days perhaps the second letter will be a stronger assertion of my rights. The only reasonI stated as much in the sample letter was to show I'm not ignorant of my rights. However, I believe other posters may be correct. I want to give them a rope to hang themselves with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coltfan1972 Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 The only reasonI stated as much in the sample letter was to show I'm not ignorant of my rights.Trust me, by sending the simple letter you have shown them you're not ignorant of your rights. They are used to seeing the four page demand everything letters. Those are the letters that actually show the ignorance. Sending the simple letter shows a calm confidence that you know your rights and you don't have to spout off a ton of unnecessary legal jargon to confidentely assert those rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64Dart270 Posted February 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 02/09/12To: Moore Law Group3710 Susan Street Ste 210Santa Ana, CA 92704Dear Debt Collector:I am writing in response to the letter received from you on date 02/08/12. I am requesting that you provide validation of this debt.Sincerely,XXXXXThat's it. The addressee as "debt collector" is intentional. They are asserting themselves as a legal firm. I think they believe that I am too ignorant to understand that regardless of title, they are debt collectors and bound by FDCPA. But mostly, it's intended as an insult by way of minimization. If slimeball were effective, I would use that instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usagi555 Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 I really wouldn't call them slimeballs. There are words out there that are far, far more pejorative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64Dart270 Posted February 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 WTF????Now I arrive home to find a very politely worded letter saying they understand debts happen...It's a settlement letter with several "attractive" offers.Ok, However AMEX claims that NCO owns the debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coltfan1972 Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 WTF????Now I arrive home to find a very politely worded letter saying they understand debts happen...It's a settlement letter with several "attractive" offers.This is the very same Moore Law Group that has lost so many FDCPA suits it is not funny. I believe I even remember a case they lost on overshadowing from their 10 day law suit letter, but I can not find it at the moment.You mean something like this poster just received? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BV80 Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 WTF????Now I arrive home to find a very politely worded letter saying they understand debts happen...It's a settlement letter with several "attractive" offers.Ok, However AMEX claims that NCO owns the debt.Moore Law Group could be collecting for NCO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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