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Arizona Alert HB 2664 makes easy to get judgement


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The Republicans in the Arizona House has passed out of committee HB 2664 which makes it easy for junk debt buyers to easily get judgements with no proof of ownership, no original agreement, only a copy of the last statement send to the alleged debtor.

Local 10pm news ran the story including the story of someone who had their id stolen and under the proposed new law would make it easy to get a judgement with no proof needed.

It is expected to be introduced in the Arizona Senate in the next few days.

We are controlled by Republicans that do all they can to support the banks not debtors and with a Republican govennor unless people in AZ make the case to elected officials, Arizona will be the easiest state to get a judgement based on no proof of debt or ownership other than a statement in the name of a debtor.

The bill is at AZ HB 2664 - Arizona State Legislature - 50th-2nd-regular - Legislation - MyGov365

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....:shock: It's so sad to me that lawmakers in Arizona have such a profound grudge against people who've gotten into financial difficulty. It's not like people are going out, getting into debt and purposely defaulting...like some sort of scam. This kind of law suggests seems to suggest that what people are doing, and that is hardly the case.

But please know, republicans aren't the only ones in the corporate pocket (so to speak)...sadly. There are (too) many on the left that work a bit too hard to protect big corporate interests, even when it is going to hurt their constituents. It's a disease (imo) that can affect anyone (greed), of any political party.

Maybe someone in your state (who doesn't want to see this pass) should try contacting Moveon.org. They are pretty awesome when it comes to fighting against "big corporate entities" that hurt little people. If this bill is at the petitioning stage (or reaches that stage), shoot Moveon.org an e-mail--they may be willing to start a petition campaign in the state to work against it passing. They have done that very thing in my state on many issues that affected "the little guy" (so to speak).

There's a lot of people who aren't wealthy in Arizona, who would be affected by this unfair bill. Getting the word out to them may assist in knocking this out permanently(if those people start contacting their senators and expressing the fact they don't want to see this passed). ;)

(Hope mentioning them here was ok, if not admins--feel free to delete my post. I'll understand)

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This truly sucks - I am now of the opinion that AZ has turned creditor friendly. Given the change in the SOL for CC debt, and now this bill...

All the AZ people on the board need to get a hold of their reps to make sure this bill is killed.

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We are controlled by Republicans that do all they can to support the banks not debtors
To be accurate, the Democratic House and Senate passed TARP. Only the most conservative Republicans (ie known as "far right") banded together and voted against it because they felt federal money for poorly behaving institutions is wrong on so many levels. Nancy Pelosi took credit for TARP on 60 Minutes, then when she realized the TARP bank bailout was a political hot potato she quickly distanced herself.

Your current president voted for it as a senator then as president-elect demanded an additional $350,000,000,000 for TARP II.

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TARP is off topic but of course it was needed. It saved the U.S. from a Depession and global economic collapse.

I was monitoring that night afterh Lehman when even commercial paper globablly was frozen. If the Fed hadn't given assurance that night as world future were plummenting, money markets in the U.S. would probably not have opened since no market for the commercial paper they held.

The Fed and Treasury knew they had to act before the Asian market opened late that Sunday night. U.S. futures were heading for the biggest stock decline in history.

Folks just have no idea what went on after Lehman - this was under Bush of course.

The Obama stimulus progrom turned the economy around it just wasn't large enough to have a faster recovery and too many tax cuts in it to get the needed Republican votes.

The receesion has been over for 3 years, the recovery is slow but about 3.5 million jobs recovered. Corporations back to record earnings and the wealthy enjoy some of the lowest tax rates in history and in the world.

Banks are making billions by consumer fraud since they make huge fees for foreclosing, not doing modifications. They are not following thie HAMP modification agreements they signed as part of TARP. The billions the banks make on foreclosures and the huge losses on foreclosure sales are about 70% born by taxpayers via the GSE's. Another huge benefit to the banks. Democrats have scremed at bankers in 4 Congressional Heaings and the Republicans side with the banks and their fraud

AG's have consumer fraud suits against many and many class actions. The banks deliberately lose paperwork sent in my times even by Congressional offices and Attorney Generals.

Republicans want to speed up foreclosures, tax cuts for the wealty. In AZ Republicans blocked all efforts in AZ for any help for mortgage help in AZ. Etc.

Now in AZ the Republicans (4 R's sponsored the bill) to make judgements a slam dunk with no required proof other than a electronic generated statement or listing on a spreadsheet.

Here is another link to an article about the proposed new law to make it easy for banks/collection agencies to get a judgement on credit card debt:

Arizona House Democrats: McCune Davis: HB 2664 will hurt Arizonans and the economy, benefits out-of-state debt collectors

Edited by davephx
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TARP is off topic but of course it was needed. It saved the U.S. from a Depession and global economic collapse.

I was monitoring that night afterh Lehman when even commercial paper globablly was frozen. If the Fed hadn't given assurance that night as world future were plummenting, money markets in the U.S. would probably not have opened since no market for the commercial paper they held.

The Fed and Treasury knew they had to act before the Asian market opened late that Sunday night. U.S. futures were heading for the biggest stock decline in history.

Folks just have no idea what went on after Lehman - this was under Bush of course.

The Obama stimulus progrom turned the economy around it just wasn't large enough to have a faster recovery and too many tax cuts in it to get the needed Republican votes.

The receesion has been over for 3 years, the recovery is slow but about 3.5 million jobs recovered. Corporations back to record earnings and the wealthy enjoy some of the lowest tax rates in history and in the world.

Banks are making billions by consumer fraud since they make huge fees for foreclosing, not doing modifications. They are not following thie HAMP modification agreements they signed as part of TARP. The billions the banks make on foreclosures and the huge losses on foreclosure sales are about 70% born by taxpayers via the GSE's. Another huge benefit to the banks. Democrats have scremed at bankers in 4 Congressional Heaings and the Republicans side with the banks and their fraud

AG's have consumer fraud suits against many and many class actions. The banks deliberately lose paperwork sent in my times even by Congressional offices and Attorney Generals.

Republicans want to speed up foreclosures, tax cuts for the wealty. In AZ Republicans blocked all efforts in AZ for any help for mortgage help in AZ. Etc.

Now in AZ the Republicans (4 R's sponsored the bill) to make judgements a slam dunk with no required proof other than a electronic generated statement or listing on a spreadsheet.

Here is another link to an article about the proposed new law to make it easy for banks/collection agencies to get a judgement on credit card debt:

Arizona House Democrats: McCune Davis: HB 2664 will hurt Arizonans and the economy, benefits out-of-state debt collectors

Its hard to even comment on this because its a handful of nonsensical paragraphs patched together.

I called you out on the political lie you posted above and now you defend the need for bank bailouts...haha. Now you respond by making stuff about tax cuts? You are a political hack.

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Where is the bill? You are getting information through a highly biased political filter without any citations.

hw

AZ HB 2664 - Arizona State Legislature - 50th-2nd-regular - Legislation - MyGov365

On KPHO TV

Critic says credit card bill leaves consumers vulnerable - CBS 5 - KPHO

I am no political hack and can back up with facts not your immature comments on any issue.

I have extensive CPA background, studied economics for 40 years am politically independent but very upset with all the lies of the Republicans and false information which I can prove lie by lie.

The bank "bail out" was needed (as was the autos and AIG). TARP has been paid back with huge profits to the Treasury. Banks are now screwing people by foreclosures . Read the Arizona Attorney General suit with detailed examples of BofA's consumer fraud and the 4 Congressional hearings.

Banks are now back to near record profits a lot of it by foreclosure profits.

We have no current debt crisis. Investors are flocking to the safety of U.S. debt and Treasuries have actual traded at a negative yield and now a proposal to allow negative yield auctions. In almost all Treasury auctions of U.S. debt between 3 times and 7 times more could be sold than offered since so many want U.S. debt even at near zero rates.

The debt has to be address over the next 20 years but not by T party nutty ideas that would sink the economy just like it is doing in the U. K etc. The best response to the long-term deficit problem is more growth and investing in education, manufacturing, infrastructure not massive job cuts to cut the deficit.

Obviously when the wealthy have such low tax rates they should pay more their fair share like in most of the world vs our low tax rates especially on non earned income where the wealthy pay such low rates.

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thank you for bringing this to our attention dave ....

and i must compliment you on your extensive knowlege of the American economy , TARP and most of the other emergency measures were indeed necessary to prevent the rapid collapse of the US and world economy ...

To those of you not here in arizona , it's entirely possible that our elected leaders in the arizona state house could have been bribed ... we actually pay our elected leaders VERY VERY little , most of them are forced to have other jobs while in office just to survive ... now i'm not saying that bribery is the case , simply a possiblity ..

I find this new legislation to be quite puzzling , our state is getting it's guts ripped out by the recession , we're right up there as far as being one of the states hardest hit by the forclosure and property bubbles ... commerical property in this state has just been savaged the last few years ..

While i hope this doesn't pass , there is a small part of me that feels the other way ... sometimes the only way to teach people to fight back is to kick them when their down ... even i don't take action until i'm angered ... right now there are so many people in my state down on their luck or just surviving ... this would really put the screws on them ... and in turn , arizona could end up finally taking dramatic action .. ( we are now the leader in new trends within the United States ,SB1070)

I must disagree with your out look for the future daveinphx ... the ONLY thing keeping the us economy going right now is QE ... take away the QE and the entire us economy dies ... as it is , high gas prices , and a helterskelter EU could end up unwinding the global economy ...i think we're going to end up more like argentina in 1999 or russia in the 1990's .

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I don't see the bit about it making it easier for JDBs in the bill. It's a bad bill, as it basically says account stated is A-OK without authenticating anything else, showing how the balance was calculated, etc... While it says nothing about a JDB showing ownership, it also says nothing about a JDB *not* showing proof of ownership. Believe me, if that bill allowed companies to successfully sue people without every having to prove standing, it would get slapped down and AZ would be footing somebody's attorney's fees.

It says how to establish that a CC holder accepted the terms and conditions of a CC agreement. That doesn't say who the other party in the agreement is. It says that the CC holder is liable for the charges. It does not say to whom the person is liable to.

By all means, fight the bill. It is terrible. The people passing it don't know just how bad bank records really are.

And JDB attorneys will misinterpret it if it becomes law, but that is like saying the sun rises in the east.

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I must disagree with your out look for the future daveinphx ... the ONLY thing keeping the us economy going right now is QE ... take away the QE and the entire us economy dies ... as it is , high gas prices , and a helterskelter EU could end up unwinding the global economy ...i think we're going to end up more like argentina in 1999 or russia in the 1990's .

Good other points... Your video's are also good, just happened to stumble across them, although I am old timer no time to watch videos like to read it but your a good educator/video maker from one I saw.

But to your point

I have been monitoring Treasury auctions etc and don't see how QE did anything other than perhaps for the GSE's mortage market. The point of QE was to keep interest rates low and provide liquidity.

But we already are near zero interest rates and we are awash in liquidity with record amounts of cash held by banks, investors, institutions.

After QE expired Treasuary rates went down even furhter - in fact below zero in the after market and the Treasury has proposed auctions where premium bids would be allowed (negative interest investors pay U.S. govt to borrow like renting a safe deposit box).

The bid to cover ratio (bids on U.S. debt to available debt) is at the highest average in history with usually 3 times and some times 7 times the demand for U.S. debt (and therefore the U.S. dollar) then Treasury had avaiable.

The current "Operation Twist" makes a lot of sense, lock in cheap long-term interest rates at todays historical lows - its never been cheaper for the U.S. to issue debt the the "real" cost (after even 2% inflation) is zero or negative with the 10-year Treasury now at about 2% and the 30 year not much higher.

I really don't see how QE can take much credit for the current recovery since most of it has continued after QE ended:

Market indexes are up five months in a row. Unemployment fell to a three-year low and has declined for five months in a row. As consumer confidence rose to its highest level in a year, shoppers also showed their brighter sentiment through their wallets and delivered retailers’ better-than-expected February sales. Industrial production is nearly back to its prerecession level.

Corporate earnings at all-time high, record amounts of cash etc.

The biggest issue for Europe is not Greece, even if Credit default swaps are triggered. The problem is austerity - the huge cutbacks in spending like in the U.K which kills growth.

The T party of course wants this in the U.S. resulting in massive more unemployment and probably going back to recession. But hopefully they will have little say in the 2012 election.

Most all countries Argentina, Russia, Brazil, "Asian debt crisis" etc have had great recoveries but had some very painful times to get to current recovery.

We already had our "great recession" , recovery and now into expansion again (GDP at new highs).

There are millions of unfilled jobs available but not those qualified. High tech, higher education, engineering positions are being filled by Europe and Asians being outsourced since we lack the investment in education in order to compete in the modern global economy.

Asia, especially China / India is doing it right economically (with some exceptions) a lot because govenments invest for the future in infastruture, R&D and education is taken far more seriously than in the U.S.

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On the credit card bill to make easier to get judgement passed the House Tuesday and had first reading in Senate today 3/7. House passed 33 in favor 26 against.

Some amendments were made but simple wording not anything favorable as I see it.

Big problem is few people know about it to stand up and fight other than KPHO TV one segment coverage.

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Good other points... Your video's are also good, just happened to stumble across them, although I am old timer no time to watch videos like to read it but your a good educator/video maker from one I saw.

But to your point QUOTE]

Where to start off .... ( FYI when i mention QE , i mean it as a reference to all government stimulus )

Corporate earnings at all-time highs, record amounts of cash etc

i would humbly suggest that corporate earnings are at all time highs because of layoff's ... over budget ? fire someone ! furthermore ,last i heard productivity is WAY up , but this is due to fear of unemployment in my opinion ... i quite often hear of people who are massively over worked at their companies , doing the work of what used to be 2 or 3 other people ..

The biggest issue for Europe is not Greece, even if Credit default swaps are triggered. The problem is austerity - the huge cutbacks in spending like in the U.K which kills growth.

i somewhat agree that the EU'S fascination with austerity could be taken too far .. but on the other hand , if these countries don't show a willingness to make the hard choices now ,investors could begin to fear that they lack the political will to take their medicine and may then end up like greece ... ( this mostly applies to the PIIGS , the UK is just an outlier )

but back to the issue of CDS's , i think you may underestimate the fallout that could take place , let's look at the situation as it stands ... first off , the banks in the EU have jumped into the LTRO (Long-term refinancing operations ) for about a trillion dollars but those loans are backed by junk ( in my opinion ) ... so lets lets say that the PSI is declared a credit event and the CDS's are triggered ..

What can we look forwards too ?

Contagion ? ABSOLUTELY .... when this all began politicians and economic pundits downplayed the threat of a default ... now as we approach march 12 , looking back it's laughable to think greece could have ever gone on without a default .. When greece pulls the cord , investors are going to take a cold hard look at italy with their , what is it , one or two trillion dollars in debt ? and their not going to like what they see ( corruption , monopolies etc )

Another thing we can look forwards to is paralyzation in the EU at almost all levels , and namely at the ECB ... Does anyone honestly think that the German public is going to have any further appetite to continue to lend/back stop the weaker EU members ? Sure the German people have been told that their nation is only involved in the numerous bailouts of greece ( what are we at now ,almost 300 billion ? ) but just WAIT until the ECB has to step in and stop the dominions from falling from the CDS tidal wave ...That's going to be the next hidden bailout , and i'm betting the last straw for the german population ....

Most all countries Argentina, Russia, Brazil, "Asian debt crisis" etc have had great recoveries but had some very painful times to get to current recovery

what you say is indeed true , there can be no true recovery without pain ... Argentina was shut out of the markets , russia was never part of them , as for the brazil issue , i don't know enough about them to comment , and the Asian debt crisis was cured by the IMF ... but in each instance , MASSIVE pain was inflicted ... i would suggest that here in the United States , that pain has been delayed by QE ... sure we've had some adjustments , but i don't think the knife has cut deeply enough ... has wall street been tamed ? has anyone gone to jail for their roles leading up to the crisis ? the smart money is still sitting in cash , the government still has the finger on the QE trigger , and inefficiencies still abound .... in each of the countries you mentioned , there was dramatic change , that had ramifications on the entire society .... i still know of people going to ASU for communications degrees , political science degree's and all the other fluff stuff that's not worth a darn in a society that's suppose to be "cured "

There are millions of unfilled jobs available but not for those who don't have qualifications

I don't think that there are MILLIONS of unfilled jobs out there , but there are definitely positions for those with the qualifications ( this can be evidenced by unemployment rates once you break them down by level of education ) ...however , i'm hearing that some of the reasons for these jobs remaining unfilled isn't always because of unqualified workers , but many times because the employer is simply not looking to pay market wages or at least what used to be market wages for the required skill set ... As an example i'd point to IT workers who are being undercut by india and it's low cost , high skilled work force ...

( i do agree that we need to manage our education and job training systems better , much like as you put it india and china ... they aren't sending their kids to school for philopshy or humanity studies )

Now to get to the meat and potatoes ...

I have been monitoring Treasury auctions etc and don't see how QE did anything other than perhaps for the GSE's mortage market. The point of QE was to keep interest rates low and provide liquidity.

it's hard for me to think of them as auctions , especially when we've been buying our own debt .... maybe we should call them , "staged theater showings for market confidence " Now your point about negative interest rates due to HUGE DEMAND , is spot on and accurate , lately we haven't needed to buy our own bonds ....but we have to remember that the only thing supporting our Treasury market is the fact that everyone else looks so darn awful ... investors are terrified that the entire EU is about to fall apart ( goodbye monetary union !!! )

so what options does that leave the investor who wants to play it safe ? japan with the debt ratio that goes to the moon and back ? over bought switzerland which has started to impose capital controls like a lot of other countries ? The chinese Renminbi ? ( i don't trust the figures coming out of china , and a lot of other people feel like me on that issue )... all of the horrors in the world just end up pushing more people into US treasuries , but their not coming here because they see strength in the US economy , their coming here because they've always come here ...

But we already are near zero interest rates and we are awash in liquidity with record amounts of cash held by banks, investors, institutions.

what do we have to show for our super low interest rates which have been near zero for awhile now ? subpar growth ......... predictions for GDP growth were at LEAST twice what they are today ... after a recession as deep as ours , historically speaking , our GDP growth should have taken off far more than it already has ...

and what about the record amounts of cash being held ? to me that flashes FEAR , FEAR , FEAR .... let's face it , ever since that one money market account broke the buck , even the safest investments have never felt as safe ...

I really don't see how QE can take much credit for the current recovery since most of it has continued after QE ended

Does QE ever end ? it seems that as soon as one tranche of it ends , another is created ...even today there were murmurs of the FED possibly willing to do another QE if the situation warrants it ...the current recovery has in my view been based off of the governments ability to put a floor under housing prices and the stock market ... They stopped the housing prices from falling by looking the other way while banks continue to hold loans that are nowhere near their original value , but as long as they don't do anything with the homes , they don't have to take the loss ... Our nations entire banking sector has been corrupted with them no longer having to mark to market ... As for the booming stock market ,that's complex ... one could look at all of the DOW companies who have been delisted , or we could take hard looks at certain sectors , financial companies have been sucking at the 0.25% tit ... while the other companies who can't get that government money have been trying to survive anyway they can, by gimmicks if necessary (smaller packages ,different work hours , being late paying bills , etc ) ...it would take me too long to explain why i feel the stock market is overbought , but i don't think today's 13,000 is anything like it USED to be ...

In the end the majority of American wealth in this country is based off of housing value and stocks ( as far as i know ) ... When either of those was in free fall a few years ago , confidence plummeted and the wallets of this nation closed in unity leading to Deflation ... i still think we're walking on egg shells ... sure we've made gains , but the gains can be given back at a moments notice , EU disintegration , Oil shock , collapsing state budgets , unsustnable pensions ,stagflation ...

Where you see sunlight , i see darkness ... where you see hope , i see despair ... LOL i'm a uber bear ... i've enjoyed your optimism and thank you for making a case for your view points ... i don't mean to come off as combative when it comes to opinions , i simply enjoy economic discourse !

Edited by MarvinArizona
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I faxed my representatives this morning...let them know that the bill is bad in it's present form, will deprive the rights of AZ residents and flies in the face of established case law in AZ and on the 9th Circuit level - specifically Vinhee.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Banking and Insurance is meeting Tuesday at 2 p.m. in SHR3. The agenda contains HB2664, which would change law to presume that a bill showing a credit card debt proves the existence of a debt, and put the burden on the alleged debtor to prove otherwise. Such a bad bill that even many Rs are against it, but Rep. Jeff Dial (R-LD20) is fronting this one for the debt collectors lobby.

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Banking and Insurance is meeting Tuesday at 2 p.m. in SHR3. The agenda contains HB2664, which would change law to presume that a bill showing a credit card debt proves the existence of a debt, and put the burden on the alleged debtor to prove otherwise. Such a bad bill that even many Rs are against it, but Rep. Jeff Dial (R-LD20) is fronting this one for the debt collectors lobby.

If somebody from AZ opens the door for me, I'll send their state senator electronic copies some of the evidence from my case. I'll even go into details that would make the most staunch "PEOPLE SHOULD PAY THEIR DEBTS, HERP HERP DERP!" types do a double take. It would be especially helpful if that senator is on the Banking and Insurance committee, but if not, it should at least be somebody who will speak up when it gets to the floor.

Somebody does need to open the door for me though, otherwise I'm just some outsider sticking his nose where it doesn't belong.

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Good other points... Your video's are also good, just happened to stumble across them, although I am old timer no time to watch videos like to read it but your a good educator/video maker from one I saw.

But to your point QUOTE]

Where to start off .... ( FYI when i mention QE , i mean it as a reference to all government stimulus )

Corporate earnings at all-time highs, record amounts of cash etc

i would humbly suggest that corporate earnings are at all time highs because of layoff's ... over budget ? fire someone ! furthermore ,last i heard productivity is WAY up , but this is due to fear of unemployment in my opinion ... i quite often hear of people who are massively over worked at their companies , doing the work of what used to be 2 or 3 other people ..

The biggest issue for Europe is not Greece, even if Credit default swaps are triggered. The problem is austerity - the huge cutbacks in spending like in the U.K which kills growth.

!

i would humbly suggest that corporate earnings are at all time highs because of layoff's ... over budget ? fire someone ! furthermore ,last i heard productivity is WAY up , but this is due to fear of unemployment in my opinion ... i quite often hear of people who are massively over worked at their companies , doing the work of what used to be 2 or 3 other people ..

What people also don't realize is the layoff of say 25 workers from a company also reduces workman's compensation insurance, pension fund expenses, and all the other employee related costs(overtime, per man-hour landed costs) so where the numbers are showing corporate gains those are the factors that are not taken into consideration.

I think this new AZ law will be ruled unconstitutional on it's face because it goes against the FDCPA as far as no debt can be deemed valid it has to be proven. and it goes against the confrontation clause.

10 to 1 says there will be an AZ court case about the constitutionality of the proposed law.

So I say to everyone the Debt collection industry has their fingers in a lot of pies lately. The only way to fight that is through the AZ supreme court.

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i would humbly suggest that corporate earnings are at all time highs because of layoff's ... over budget ? fire someone ! furthermore ,last i heard productivity is WAY up , but this is due to fear of unemployment in my opinion ... i quite often hear of people who are massively over worked at their companies , doing the work of what used to be 2 or 3 other people ..

What people also don't realize is the layoff of say 25 workers from a company also reduces workman's compensation insurance, pension fund expenses, and all the other employee related costs(overtime, per man-hour landed costs) so where the numbers are showing corporate gains those are the factors that are not taken into consideration.

I think this new AZ law will be ruled unconstitutional on it's face because it goes against the FDCPA as far as no debt can be deemed valid it has to be proven. and it goes against the confrontation clause.

10 to 1 says there will be an AZ court case about the constitutionality of the proposed law.

So I say to everyone the Debt collection industry has their fingers in a lot of pies lately. The only way to fight that is through the AZ supreme court.

It sounds like this bill is the result of a lot of legislators not knowing what's really going on and not understanding credit card cases in conjunction with some slick lobbiests being a mouthpiece for debt collection attorneys whining that they actually are being asked to prove their cases every now and then.

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I don't see this as a major issue. None of these card companies are located in AZ, and the choice of law provision should ace out state law. Depends on where they place the statute. If it is under banking law, "fuggedaboudit," state banking commissions have zero authority over national banks. States don't really have any either except for certain areas, like criminal activities. I guess the new rule is go to some other state, borrow a relative's address, and maintain your credit card from there. Maybe if the AZ banks lose enough money, they'll pressure the state to rescind the law. Or they'll get John McCain to invade South Dakota and take over Citibank.

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  • 4 weeks later...

New Arizona law favorable to credit card companies, spurs debate

April 10, 2012

HB 2664, as it is formally called, was passed by the Arizona House recently and its enactment will be immensely important for any state residents with a credit card. HB 2664 binds the holder to the "terms and conditions of the credit card account" with the swipe of the card itself -- meaning you accept the card's terms just by making a purchase. It also lets the card issuer maintain this debt through "electronic data."

The combination of these clauses condemns holders to the likelihood that a card issuer could seek discharged, paid or possibly fabricated credit card debt with barely any proof. An issuer would merely need to show you have used the card once and that there is some apparent debt that they claim you owe, and they could pursue litigation against you for outstanding debt. HB 2664 places card holders in an unknowing position of potential debt, which clearly favors the issuer -- a situation that Phoenix Representative Debbie McCune Davis is unhappy about.

Davis criticized HB 2664 of achieving its passing vote through unjust circumstances. HB 2664 was originally denied by the Arizona Senate Banking and Insurance Committee, until the panel reviewed the decision and passed the bill. Davis filed a complaint with the Secretary of State accusing an unregistered lobbyist of pushing the committee to allow HB 2664 to go through.

She didn't stop there, slamming the dangerous possibilities the bill allows, such as giving debt collectors "the power to accuse almost anyone of owing a debt without having to show a contract."

"If this bill passes, a debt buyer would be able to sue a person with little evidence," she said. "The lawsuit could proceed if the company had something as simple as a spreadsheet showing a name and an alleged amount due or a generic credit card agreement -- even if the debt has already been paid or dismissed."

Source: Courthouse News Service,

Apr 11, 2012 3:25 PM MST

PHOENIX (CBS 5) - The Arizona Senate voted down a bill Tuesday that gives debt collectors the power to accuse almost anyone of owing a debt without having to show a contract.

But Sen. Ron Gould made a motion for reconsideration, paving the way for another vote soon.

The bill's sponsor, Rep. Jeff Dial, a Chandler Republican, said HB 2664 is supposed to protect credit card users while critics maintain it will allow debt buyers to prey on Arizonans who have had their debt dismissed.

Under the measure, debt buyers would be empowered to sue a person based on little evidence. They would be able to show they are entitled to a money judgment by submitting either the "final billing statement" or an "electronic record," which could be no more than a spreadsheet that has the debtor's name on it and an amount purportedly owed.

Rep. Debbie McCune Davis told azhousedemocrats.com, "It benefits out-of-state debt buyers, companies that purchase and attempt to collect debt after it has gone into default."

The measure was originally denied by the Arizona Senate Banking and Insurance Committee, until the panel reviewed the decision and passed the bill.

Dial refused to explain the exact purpose of the bill when approached by CBS 5 News last month.

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April 14 2012 Update - The Arizona Republic Highlights

But onward, from burritos to one bad stomachache: House Bill 2664.

Simply put, Dial's bill -- carried on behalf of Kaites' client, the Arizona Creditors Bar Association -- would lower the amount of evidence needed in order to collect on credit-card debts in certain circumstances.

Dial, R-Ahwatukee Foothills, didn't return a call to talk about his bill or his birthday burritos. Kaites' spokesman, David Leibowitz, told me it's all about holding people accountable and holding down costs for those of us who pay our bills.

"HB 2664 would do little more than close a loophole that allows credit-card users to run up debts and use the court system to escape without paying," he said. "It only applies when debtors run up a bill, fail to pay it and then fail to appear in court."

Critics say it's a little more than that. They point out that credit-card companies have all the documentation they need to go after deadbeats. This bill, they say, is more about allowing out-of-state debt buyers to collect on debts that you may -- or may not -- owe.

Debt buyers are firms that buy lists of bad debts already written off by credit-card companies. The lists are purchased for pennies on the dollar and often come with little documentation. Consumer-protection attorneys say many of the debts were discharged in a bankruptcy, mistakenly assigned to the wrong person or were actually paid but never properly recorded.

The bill is one step away from Gov. Jan Brewer's desk. The question is, why?

"Every other state we've looked at has toughened consumer-protection requirements, but in Arizona they're going in the other direction," Rep. Debbie McCune Davis, D-Phoenix, told me. "Why do we want to lower the standard of evidence for out-of-state debt buyers so they can profit by filing lawsuits against Arizona citizens?"

Leibowitz says it's certainly not because of the burritos, the cost of which was split between Kaites and another lobbyist whom he declined to identify.

"It works out to less than $7 (apiece), and they bought some breakfast burritos," he said. "I think that happens virtually every day at the Arizona Legislature."

Exactly.

Of course, nobody is going to base their vote solely on a burrito -- at least, not that they would ever admit. But a burrito -- like free tickets to a ballgame or a complimentary weekend at the Ritz -- builds rapport. It builds a relationship where it becomes more difficult to say no.

Why else would Kaites have spent $1,566 in the first quarter of the year, wining and dining our leaders? Why did he spend $14,378 in 2011?

I doubt that he, or any of the dozens of other lobbyists doing the same thing, are doing it because they enjoy being a free-meal machine.

They're doing it because it pays off. And it looks like they can continue doing it for a long time to come.

The Senate this week rebuffed all efforts to get between legislators and their free burritos -- or free anything else.

Read more: Senate rebuffs efforts to take away freebies

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Did this bill (HB 2664) actually pass? I'm scanning through articles on the interwebs about it, but every article I've read either talks about the possibility of it passing, or states that it has passed. Not sure which is true. I really hope it didn't pass, because it doesn't look like I could win my case any other way other than having them prove I owe the debt :(

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Let Arizona bankrupt itself. Let them pass this law. Their leadership is doing everything in its power to turn it into a state that can only be lived in by White Supremacists and militiamen. Let them destroy themselves, at the expense of their citizens who will surely vote these suckers out of office.

I stopped buying things made or sold from Arizona 2 years ago. A few counties and cities in California also boycotted Arizona-derived products and services for myriad reasons.

If the leadership there wants to morally and financially bankrupt its citizens while marginalizing others, they can go right ahead, but I am not going to contribute (via tax money) anything to that process. There are 49 other states. I think this law sets up a perfect possible Supreme Court case if it goes into effect.

F*** Arizona.

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