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Anyone Use this DV sample letter before ?

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You should really read the findings of the Maryland Office of the Commissioner of Financial Regulation in case number DFR-FY2012-012. It is about 40 pages but it goes into detail on how exactly LVNV Funding LLC (and other Sherman owned companies) do business. I have read it several times. The most interesting stuff starts about half way through the case document. You can read or download the case document in PDF format from the State Of Maryland web site. I am new here so they will not allow me to post any links yet but just go to Google and search on "Maryland DFR-FY2012-012" or "LVNV DFR-FY2012-012" and you will find it.

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Guys, I'd like to put forth an additional answer to why you shouldn't use the "Kitchen Sink" DV letter beyond simply the "CAs don't have to provide all that stuff" answer.

There is a considerable and two-fold advantage to sending the super-bare-bones DV letter:

1. It reveals almost nothing of your knowledge of the law to the CA, which is a much more frightening prospect for them to consider than the letter festoon with threats and demands. If you send a four sentence letter, you don't show any part of your "hand" so to speak.

2. (and this is if you leave out all the C&D language and send JUST a TRUE DV letter)--You are giving them a lot of space to commit an FDCPA violation. Why, you ask? Because they may think you don't know anything about your rights and are merely responding to their letter. They may even continue collection calls/activity before they finish validation. It is because of this "we're gonna nail this fool" mentality that positions CAs to act brazenly and stupidly.

Now, It is important to phrase your super-bare-bones letter in the same context as their original letter to you. If the letter says something like, "If you send us a written request that you dispute this debt or any portion thereof, our offices will obtain verification and mail it to you," then that is EXACTLY what you do:

"Dear Dbag Debt LLC:

I received your letter about the $5,000.00 debt. In it you stated that if I dispute the debt, you would mail verification to me. I hereby dispute this debt. Please send me validation.

Sincerely,

Your Mine"

Now, you wait. They either drop it, continue to collect and violate the FDCPA, or they validate. If they do validate, then you send a bare-bones C&D letter. Now they have a second opportunity to scratch their wormy heads and think, "Hmm, do I really want to sue?" If they sue, then you could start doing the kinds of things that are in the "Kitchen Sink" DV letter.

Remember: This is war. You want your enemy to underestimate you. You never show the enemy your playbook, and you never rattle of a list off tactics to your enemy, especially if you don't know what the heck they are.

SalParadis: the collecting agency has tried to call me for the past 2 months and it was only until the past month (march 2011) that i have contacted them. they have sent me notification to an address that i no longer lived in, plus i was traveling a lot lately i was notified through the voice mail in march. what are my strategies here? should i write a super-bare-bones letter to them indicating that i have not received their notification due to my change of address? and then wait for them to send me the original letter and then write the DV to them?

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They don't have to answer a DV after 30 days of their initial contact. Even if they did have to respond there is no situation where you should send anything but a bare bones DV.

There are cases where you should send a different letter other than a DV letter, but never (and that is hard to say with the law) a case where you should use the kitchen sink letter.

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For $5k, a collector would go after his own mother... they will probably provide a bare minimum of validation...

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SalParadis: the collecting agency has tried to call me for the past 2 months and it was only until the past month (march 2011) that i have contacted them. they have sent me notification to an address that i no longer lived in, plus i was traveling a lot lately i was notified through the voice mail in march. what are my strategies here? should i write a super-bare-bones letter to them indicating that i have not received their notification due to my change of address? and then wait for them to send me the original letter and then write the DV to them?

Here's more pertinent FDCPA:

=========

§ 809. Validation of debts [15 USC 1692g]

(a) Within five days after the initial communication with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt, a debt collector shall, unless the following information is contained in the initial communication or the consumer has paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing --

(1) the amount of the debt;

(2) the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed;

(3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector;

=========

ColtsFan, what's your view re the bold portion above? Taken literally, I would tend to think that since he hasn't actually received a written notice, the 30-day period hasn't begun. That of course could be a totally incorrect interpretation on my part.

Also, OP: What was said during the conversation you had with the CA? If you said something that could possibly be construed as your acceptance of the debt, things get pretty murky and a DV, regardless of when the "30-day period" begins, might be completely moot.

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The "received" part can be used to make that argument. Generally speaking, it works good for just a few weeks outside the 30 day window. For example, you write your letter back and you put, this letter is in response to your letter dated (then state the date w/i the 30 day window).

The problem gets to be with this long is that you start getting into what the court would deem reasonable. Being 10 days outside the 30 day window and arguing you were still inside the time to demand DV because you did not receive the letter due to a delay in mail, will fly of course.

Also the VM could be argued as receiving the notice.

However, by the letter of the law, you are correct about the "receipt" of the notice. It does not say date on the receipt or date sent. It's a legit argument and one I have known people that have used.

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The problem gets to be with this long is that you start getting into what the court would deem reasonable.

Excellent point. Judges aren't all that fond of litigants who build their cases entirely on de minimus technicalities.

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Here's more pertinent FDCPA:

=========

§ 809. Validation of debts [15 USC 1692g]

(a) Within five days after the initial communication with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt, a debt collector shall, unless the following information is contained in the initial communication or the consumer has paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing --

(1) the amount of the debt;

(2) the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed;

(3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector;

=========

ColtsFan, what's your view re the bold portion above? Taken literally, I would tend to think that since he hasn't actually received a written notice, the 30-day period hasn't begun. That of course could be a totally incorrect interpretation on my part.

Also, OP: What was said during the conversation you had with the CA? If you said something that could possibly be construed as your acceptance of the debt, things get pretty murky and a DV, regardless of when the "30-day period" begins, might be completely moot.

in the conversation with the CA i told her that i am not a US citizen and my sole purpose this time here to the states was only for vacation purpose. It was after I come back here and activated my phone again that I heard their voice mail. she told me if i am having doubts with the documentation from the creditor that i should write a DV and include my address detailing the reason why I haven't been able to contact them all this time...

my strategy here is to send them a letter requesting the notification to be send to me again to my non-US address, then write a DV within 30days after receiving of their notification. the amount they are asking is less than $4000.

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my strategy here is to send them a letter requesting the notification to be send to me again to my non-US address, then write a DV within 30days after receiving of their notification. the amount they are asking is less than $4000.

At this point I would just go ahead and send the DV--don't bother with sending an introductory letter requesting their initial letter. You may just have enough of an excuse to still fit into the 30-day window. Not that the 30-day window necessarily means anything, just as with the CAs "assumption" that the debt is valid. Send them a DV now before they get itchy and push this along.

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At this point I would just go ahead and send the DV--don't bother with sending an introductory letter requesting their initial letter. You may just have enough of an excuse to still fit into the 30-day window. Not that the 30-day window necessarily means anything, just as with the CAs "assumption" that the debt is valid. Send them a DV now before they get itchy and push this along.

In my opinion, not bad advice, but I disagree. If the agency told him to send a letter and they would send a response, in this limited situation, I'd do it.

The reason is, if you can get them to send you a letter with the maxi miranda at the bottom stating you have 30 days to request DV, that would be great. You don't want a copy of the original communication. You want to see if you can get them to send it again, but date it as current. No just a photo copy of a letter they sent months earlier.

You have then just solved all your "in receipt of" problems. If you get a letter dated current by them that gives you your DV rights, then it does not matter if it's the 800 communication from them. They just cracked the door open for you. Then you can drive a semi through it. They have just agreed to provide DV. They can't then say it was not the initial communication. The key is the date of the letter.

You letter to them needs to be worded VERY careful. This is not "settlement" talks, therefore, if you write something that can hurt you, they can use it against you, unlike "settlement" talks.

Try this.

Dear CA,

As you have requested, I am notifying you that I have received no written notifications from you, do to being out of the country. Please note my address at the top of this letter, and please send me the information we discussed.

Sincerely,

You

See what they send. The just might open the DV door back open for you. On a side note, as Sal correctly pointed out, it's not that big of a deal. DV really is nothing more than confirming the amount being alleged from the debtor is actually what the original creditors confirm.

You want to DV but if you don't, it's far from fatal and no big deal.

Edited by Coltfan1972

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Ah, I didn't quite get the gist of the CAs request for a letter. I see it now.

I agree with Colt--send them a very short, very carefully worded letter.

You're probably never going to have a Perry Mason-type moment in the DV phase of things (thought I wouldn't put it past Colt to have had a hilarious DV tale), but it's important to be thorough and meticulous at every single step leading up to a potential law suit. Due diligence and scrupulous record keeping can not only potentially save your rear in the future, but attorneys (should you choose to hire one) and judges (if you ever have to meet one) really appreciate it.

I personally recommend keeping a file and logging every tiny bit of activity concisely and in detail. Even phone calls, try to transcribe from memory or at least summarize them. Of course STAY OFF the phone if at all possible.

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In my opinion, not bad advice, but I disagree. If the agency told him to send a letter and they would send a response, in this limited situation, I'd do it.

The reason is, if you can get them to send you a letter with the maxi miranda at the bottom stating you have 30 days to request DV, that would be great. You don't want a copy of the original communication. You want to see if you can get them to send it again, but date it as current. No just a photo copy of a letter they sent months earlier.

You have then just solved all your "in receipt of" problems. If you get a letter dated current by them that gives you your DV rights, then it does not matter if it's the 800 communication from them. They just cracked the door open for you. Then you can drive a semi through it. They have just agreed to provide DV. They can't then say it was not the initial communication. The key is the date of the letter.

You letter to them needs to be worded VERY careful. This is not "settlement" talks, therefore, if you write something that can hurt you, they can use it against you, unlike "settlement" talks.

Try this.

Dear CA,

As you have requested, I am notifying you that I have received no written notifications from you, do to being out of the country. Please note my address at the top of this letter, and please send me the information we discussed.

Sincerely,

You

See what they send. The just might open the DV door back open for you. On a side note, as Sal correctly pointed out, it's not that big of a deal. DV really is nothing more than confirming the amount being alleged from the debtor is actually what the original creditors confirm.

You want to DV but if you don't, it's far from fatal and no big deal.

sal and colt thanks for all the help! i've drafted the initial letter requesting the CA to send me the letter again with a current date, does this look alright?:

Dear CA,

As you have requested, I am notifying you that I have received no written notifications from you due to being out of the country. I am not a US citizen and I do not live in United States. Please note my [foreign] address at the top of this letter, and please send me the notification letter with a current date.

Sincerely,

You

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Looks good to me.

And sorry, no funny DV stories to speak of. Well other than suing and winning because of no DV being sent. :lol:

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Thanks a lot for this thread, as I'm new to the forum this evening. I work in a regulated industry, and I had found something very similar as presented by the OP, but felt like this letter shot oneself in the foot by simply overplaying one's hand. About to send a bare bones letter reflecting what THEY assert they will do: provide written verification of the debt, and identity of original/ current creditor... Now off to browse for threads dedicated to *Arkansas*, or my specific creditor or CA...

-Rob

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reflecting what THEY assert they will do: provide written verification of the debt, and identity of original/ current creditor...

Good angle, but I would personally replace "verification" with "validation". FDCPA verbiage uses the latter and word usage is key in these types of matters.

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Guys, I'd like to put forth an additional answer to why you shouldn't use the "Kitchen Sink" DV letter beyond simply the "CAs don't have to provide all that stuff" answer.

There is a considerable and two-fold advantage to sending the super-bare-bones DV letter:

1. It reveals almost nothing of your knowledge of the law to the CA, which is a much more frightening prospect for them to consider than the letter festoon with threats and demands. If you send a four sentence letter, you don't show any part of your "hand" so to speak.

2. (and this is if you leave out all the C&D language and send JUST a TRUE DV letter)--You are giving them a lot of space to commit an FDCPA violation. Why, you ask? Because they may think you don't know anything about your rights and are merely responding to their letter. They may even continue collection calls/activity before they finish validation. It is because of this "we're gonna nail this fool" mentality that positions CAs to act brazenly and stupidly.

Now, It is important to phrase your super-bare-bones letter in the same context as their original letter to you. If the letter says something like, "If you send us a written request that you dispute this debt or any portion thereof, our offices will obtain verification and mail it to you," then that is EXACTLY what you do:

"Dear Dbag Debt LLC:

I received your letter about the $5,000.00 debt. In it you stated that if I dispute the debt, you would mail verification to me. I hereby dispute this debt. Please send me validation.

Sincerely,

Your Mine"

Now, you wait. They either drop it, continue to collect and violate the FDCPA, or they validate. If they do validate, then you send a bare-bones C&D letter. Now they have a second opportunity to scratch their wormy heads and think, "Hmm, do I really want to sue?" If they sue, then you could start doing the kinds of things that are in the "Kitchen Sink" DV letter.

Remember: This is war. You want your enemy to underestimate you. You never show the enemy your playbook, and you never rattle of a list off tactics to your enemy, especially if you don't know what the heck they are.

Hi all

Long story short:

I'd been receiving notices from Midland to my address but with an incorrect name for around 6 months (middle initial was incorrect). I ignored these. In February, I checked my credit reports online (all three) and found no issues.

Last Friday, I received a note that has an attorney's name on it, describing a similar debt. It looks like a crappy form letter. It has my name and address on it (no middle name/initial). There's a portion describing whats due that includes:

creditor

original vendor

account no

our file no.

amount due

It includes this line which makes me think I need to react at this point "Unless you dispute this debt, or any portion of it, within 30 days after you receive this notice, we, the debt collector, will assume that it is valid".

As I mentioned, based on checking my credit reports and to my knowledge, I don't think this debt is mine. I've always paid my bills and had excellent credit. Questions if you can please give me some advice:

1) do I need to send a DV? Is this "short" format appropriate in my case?

2) do I need to lawyer up?

This is stressing me out, reading the responses and info in this forum has helped. Thanks for any assistance you can provide.

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If you genuinely do not recognize the debt, DV it. Never miss an opportunity to DV. As other members have opined, short/sweet has its advantages.

Getting a lawyer is up to you, but I personally think now is a bit premature.

Honestly, this could be a case of same name/wrong individual. Im involved in a somewhat similar situation whetein the JDB alleges a debt owed by a person with my name but a comletely different social sec. #. The fact that this isnt on your CRs makes me think they just have the wrong guy. Be that as it may, play this out by the book.

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Pequod

I strongly recommend that you put a security freeze on all 3 credit bureau reports for yourself (and your spouse, if any), RIGHT AWAY.

YOu can do a freeze with Experian online, and almost instantly. Do that RIGHT NOW.

This will prevent a CA from 1) pulling your credit (soft OR hard) and 2) from putting a collections account on your credit.

If they do this before you freeze it, it will be a lot harder for you to remove it.

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This will prevent a CA from 1) pulling your credit (soft OR hard) and 2) from putting a collections account on your credit.

I respectfully disagree. I have had a freeze on my TU and collections accounts as well as pulls have occured.

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I respectfully disagree. I have had a freeze on my TU and collections accounts as well as pulls have occured.

Did they have a prior relationship (already did pulls, or already reported something on your CR) with you before you did the freeze?

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A short to the point DV is applicable in all cases. If you know the account is not yours you really have nothing to worry about. You lawyer up later, like when you sue them if they don't correct the issue.

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A short to the point DV is applicable in all cases. If you know the account is not yours you really have nothing to worry about. You lawyer up later, like when you sue them if they don't correct the issue.

Thanks for the warm fuzzies everyone. I'm going to go with a super simple DV sent registered mail / return receipt / whatever and see what happens. Does this look ok?

Question - should I include my middle initial/middle name since I think that's where they're screwing up?

------------------------------

Date

Your Name

Your Address

City, State Zip

Collection Agency

Collection Agency Address

City, State Zip

Re: Acct No: XXXX-XXXX-XXXX-XXXX / File No:

I received your letter dated May 1, 2012 regarding a debt of $#####. In it you stated that if I dispute the debt, you would mail verification to me. I hereby dispute this debt. Please send me validation.

Regards,

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