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Have more property than is exempt-what happens?


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I was on the way to post an update on a post from a couple of weeks ago and read this and wanted to give may opinion which may mean nothing.

I’ve been dealing with credit issues since back in 2008 and that is when I found this board. There is some good advice and suggestions, but I want to just relay a little of my experience and limited knowledge.

I had my first suit filed against me by Citiscum as I call them in 2008. I read and read post after post and tried to get a game plan together to fight them. There was one guy on here back then and he made a statement and I wanted to ignore it, but it was true. He said if you did indeed have credit with XYZ company why fight it your guilty as charged or something like that.

I know that some of you have been lucky enough to beat the creditor in court by handling it pro se, but in my opinion you possibly setting yourself up for a trap that could get you in big trouble. I began my fight against Citiscum and they sent me all their discovery stuff. The questions that they asked were pretty straight forward and they had some good attorneys, I guess you could say. If I had answered them truthfully I would have been sunk there. If I had lied I would have been guilty of perjury and I’ll get to that in a minute.

What I did was just ignore their discovery questions. Then they petitioned the court to render a judgment against me for not doing the discovery. Well they had screwed up, and I couldn’t believe it, but they did not at least send their stuff to me by Certified Mail with a return receipt requested. I knew I had them there because they had no evidence that I did receive their discovery stuff. So, I proceeded to act as though I hadn’t received it and filed a response to their motion that the case be decided in their favor.

So, they didn’t get their judgment and the case went on. I worked on my preparation and then the court day came and they had an attorney show up and I assume I had them because they didn’t have the smoking gun so to speak, of a copy of my signed agreement. The attorney wanted to cut a deal. I had read that when they wanted to do that that they knew you had them.

I had gotten there with my wife who was not involved, but there for moral support. Not knowing what to do and I didn’t do as was suggested and sit in on a few cases before my court date. We beat their attorney there and went into the court room. The bailiff came around getting everyone’s name. In a few minutes he came back with a sheet of paper from the judge because I was going to attempt pro se. The first thing was, she advised in a statement that she recommended not attempting to go through with the case without the help of an attorney. The second thing on the list was that she expected the Rules of Civil Procedure to be followed to the T so to speak.

Well, I had tried to research that before I got there because I think I had gotten a letter to that effect since I was going pro se. Then as we were waiting I got to thinking, if I get in there and the Citiscum attorney calls me to the stand what was I going to do? Perjury came to mind and here is what I would have been facing here in my state:

Persons convicted of perjury shall be punished by imprisonment in the penitentiary as follows: For perjury committed on the trial of any indictment for a capital offense or for any other felony, for a term not less than ten years; for perjury committed on any other judicial trial or inquiry, or in any other case, for a term not exceeding ten years.

So, I figured I was stuck between a rock and a hard spot because they would have asked me the very questions they had in the discovery stuff and what else would I do but tell the truth or risk prison time. IT AINT WORTH IT FOLKS.

I caved in and let them get their little judgment. I could have had it delayed because the judge was going to recues herself because we were friends in a civic group. But, that would not have accomplished anything other than delaying the inevitable and I knew I had the possibly of 3 more battles to fight.

Well the second battle came in 2010 against LVNV Funding on a Crapital One account and they had the smoking gun. They had a copy of my signed agreement. So, I was sunk on that one and I just let them get their little default judgment.

All they did accomplish after the judgments was to put leans on my property. I have now remedied that situation almost, my attorney’s motion to remove the judicial leans has been granted and is contingent on the final discharge of the case in the near future.

Having gone through all this, I hope I painted a pretty good picture of some possibilities of trouble in trying to be an arm chair attorney.

I’m glad, even though I had to fork out some bucks, that I had an attorney do all my BK stuff and get it right.

Now one more thing I will point out to you is, you can run around all over the world wasting your time and various BK attorney’s time, but still which one are you going to let handle it if you do get an attorney, which I highly recommend.

There are some solutions to that equation and I won’t get into it here, but if anyone wants to PM me I will be glad to give you some alternatives. I’ve been there and done that and didn’t go all the way without the help of attorneys and that’s not just the BK attorney that handled my case. I had phone consultation before my suits and after my suits leading up the hiring of the BK attorney.

I’ll stand by my theory and as Abraham Lincoln said, “He who represents himself has a fool for a client”. I could have been that fool and wound up guilty of perjury plain and simple. I had already been told by an attorney that I had no case to defend.

Think about it.:wink:

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Thank-you for your story. I am where you were. reading, studying, planning and freaking out. I have already started responding to my first lawsuit. I'm continueing on with that just to buy some time as my funds are extremely limited and the BK attn. said it would be another charge to get a judgement off. I am also looking at about 10 other law suits if they file-3 I know of for sure. I had a free BK phone consultation and I was sure the property was not in the city limits, as they said that would be a stumbling block, so I had a game plan for the BK but when I actually investigated it-I am the absolute last property in the city limits-geez-go figure-it's not even a city-it's a small town with 200 people. That's why I posted the question on what happens when you have too much property to be exempt. I thought maybe I could sell the property and now I'm nervous about this attn. because when they sent the sheet of info needed, at the bottom, it said this firm could be considered a debt collector and it freaked me out so I didn't want to talk to them again. I guess I'll just call another one but there are no BK attns. with-in 100 miles of where I live.

My husband and I are just about at our limits of stress, as are alot of people these days, and our health-especially his-2 massive heart attacks and a stroke-are suffering under the burden. I am handling this almost totally without his knowledge as I don't want to risk another attack. This homestead is all-and I mean all-we have left. We bought it after we lost everything in the downturn of the economy. We sold some personal stuff and family got together and gave us money to get this place, which is a dump, but it's ours and now to think we will have liens on it and not be able to file BK is all so overwhelming. We want to feel secure in our golden years. We are probably judgement proof but who knows anymore these days. Some people will do anything for a buck including take an old couples last stand for what measely value it is worth. That's what the BK attn. said-the court nor the creditors care if we are homeless or not. Made me feel real comfy and warm!

So, thank-you again for your reply. Money is our biggest problem-or lack of I should say-so lawyers are pretty much out of the question and our families are tapped now too. I was just looking for some free counsel here-I know it's risky because we don't really know anyone here but we don't know these lawyers either. All in all-this site seems pretty decent and dependable as far as presenting all of the case laws and such that you can research for answers to many questions-I just couldn't find the answer to the one I have.

Good-luck to you in all your endevours!!

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I have a lot of alleged debt, somewhere around $100K, across a lot of accounts. I have only been sued three times. I beat two of the suits, and got terms I can live with on the third. All going pro se.

I send a DV letter, by certified mail, to every collection agency that contacts me. That alone scares some of them off. If it doesn't scare them off, it sets up my rights under the FDCPA.

I have sued collection agencies, and am now, apparently, on Webrecon. So most of them don't want to touch me with a ten-foot pole.

If harassment is stressful, and, yes, it can be, there are ways, other than BK, to stop it.

You can take your phone off the hook and give a pre-paid cell number to people you want to talk to.

As for the perjury issue, how is it perjury to say "I can't recall"? How does anyone know what you can really remember? Hell, I can't recall what I had for dinner last night.

You should be able to beat a JDB on the standing issue, or by being very aggressive on discovery that YOU send them. They have so little invested in those accounts that it's easier and cheaper for them to give up on the cases where the defendant fights back. So they can concentrate on their bread-and-butter default judgments.

The arbitration strategy is also useful in derailing a creditor's case.

And remember the statute of limitations. Tick, tick, tick goes the clock, and then they can't legally sue you. If they try, it will be a payday for you, as it's a FDCPA violation.

As for judgment liens on property, most of the time they just sit there, as it costs too much for the creditor to foreclose. Given the poor housing climate, it is likely your house is worth much less than you think, which is also in your favor.

Be careful of the BK attorneys. They will portray BK as the greatest thing since sliced bread, as that is how they get their money. They, just like the creditors and the BK court and trustee, also don't care if you become homeless.

If your situation is stressful now, it will be a million times worse if you become homeless.

I am in a similar situation, having a house that is paid for and (maybe) above the exemption levels. For me BK is simply not an option, hence my name here.

For me, the only option is to fight creditors. Make no mistake, it is a lot of work, and involves daily study of this and similar sites. But it can be done pro se.

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Thank-you so much for the pep talk. I can do this-I'm not as intimidated as I sound-just tired. Yes, the home was quitclaimed 'Tenants by the Entirety" a week before we filed for a homestead exemption. I am going to continue my battle with Midland-I'm at the response stage of their Reply to Affirmative Defenses. I have found how to do that here (been on this site for 3 months now before I posted anything). I have 2 more collection letters to respond to and am just sending a simple "I deny this debt" statement (I haven't done this before). I have 10 days left for Midland and 20 for the letters. As far as the value of the home-we only paid less than 20k so that's not a real issue. I wish these JDBs researched more. They would have found we have nothing anyway to pay them with. Guess it's a waiting game for them sometimes though. Midland pulled my credit report and, like yours-about 100k in debt. We're unemployed and will receive social security in a year. We have a verbal agreement with hubbys sister who gave us the money to buy this place to pay her back. Could she put a lien on the property now? She has the paperwork that shows she gave us the money a year ago. Also, do you know if there is anything you can do to get these "Charged Off" accts deleated from your credit report? I stumbled upon some info about it but you had to pay something to learn more so was skeptical. All of my 15 accts have been "Charged Off" with 3 of them being sold or transfered to a JDB. At least that is what the report says.I know sometimes it isn't always on there yet if a JDB has the acct.

Anyway-thank-you for the encouragement! I sure needed that to continue. Yes, I was getting nervous about the bankruptcy.

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backinthe50’s, I hope I didn’t add any additional stress to you.

I just try to do like Mr. Spock from the old Star Trek and look at the logical thing.

On the “I can’t recall thing”, it sounds good in theory, but in reality it may not always work. The discovery questions they asked me were plain and simple Yes-No questions. There was no place for “I can’t recall”. I was not dealing with a JDB’s attorney. I was up against No. 3 evil big bank in the country, Citiscum’s firm. There were not one, but 3 attorney’s names on all paperwork associated with my first case. So, they were triple teaming little old me. These were not fly by night attorneys. They knew what they were doing and probably were very good at it. The firm had about 6 to 8 lawyers in it. It wasn’t some guy that might have barely passed the Bar Exam and hung out a shingle and went to work for the JDBs.

Had I been put on the stand under oath and the evil one’s attorney asked me one of the simple Yes-No questions and I tried to play the “I can’t recall” thing, They would have done just like you see in Hollywood and asked the judged to instruct me to answer the question as asked. If I continued to beat around the bush, the judge could have held me in Contempt of Court. That’s where the “Rules of Civil Procedure” I mentioned come into play. Then that would have bought me a ticket to the county lockup and Big Bubba. The only way to get the get out of jail card would have been to go back to court and answer the question as asked. So, the “I can’t recall” answer may not always get you off Scott Free. A good attorney in their questioning could trip you up in a heartbeat.

In my early days in law enforcement, I witnessed an investigator question a suspected ring leader of a thief ring, fire questions at a guy so fast and repeatedly that the guy gave three stories before he was through in just a matter of minutes. He would have made a good attorney. The same type questioning could also happen in court when up against a competent attorney.

This may shed a little more light on the perjury issue. I was not dealing with the JDB attorney and it was not a case of “They have so little invested in those accounts that it's easier and cheaper for them to give up on the cases where the defendant fights back. So they can concentrate on their bread-and-butter default judgments”. They were plain and simple out to get the money if they could in what ever manner it took. Five months after the judgment they attempted to snag the funds in my checking account.

They lost out on that one because there weren’t any funds to snag hardly. I had just transferred the little funds in one account to my business account and they couldn’t touch that. I didn’t even know it was coming in the first place. They didn’t get anything because the other personal account had a little money in it and I had two outstanding loans with the bank and when that happens the bank gets first shot at the funds and they did snatch about $100 form the account leaving Citiscum empty handed. After that we abandoned the accounts and all funds went to an account at a credit union where the account was solely in my wife’s name and she was not involved in this. So, as you can see if up against a big bank and their attorneys you may not get off so light.

Now, the next thing they did was to put a lien on my property. It is one of the ones I mentioned before and they lost out on that too, when my BK is discharged. As you can see, these cats were out for blood. You’ve simply got to look at who you are dealing with.

Now let me throw out another legal term and that is “Fraud”. Think what you will, but the plain and simple fact is that by trying to defeat the creditors, even though it might be a JDB, in all the mumbo jumbo BS to try and beat them you are plain and simple committing Fraud. I know some of you are going to deny this but that’s your prerogative, but I would recommend that you to think about it.

We all entered into legal binding contracts with whomever. The creditor did not and I know some people might get junk put on their credit report that is not theirs, but the creditor did not fabricate your debt. You were and still are legally liable for the debt.

The plain and simple fact is that in most cases, events and circumstances beyond our control got us to where we are today. You can try to skirt the issue but, it’s still there and isn’t going to go away. Unless you are fortunate enough to get by the statute of limitations and that in itself is still a “Catch 22”.

I had one and have seen it mentioned here several times. The wonderful “Charge Off” is what I’m referring to. That means nothing more than the creditor is trying to get a tax write off on your debt it in no way relieves you of that debt. That may not be the end of it. On December 31 of 2010, I had one that had been a charged off and they sent me a 1099 in the tune of $5000. Guess what? You can not stick your head into the sand on that issue, but the IRS will be looking for their taxes and probably the state, when and if this happens to you. The only way to escape that issue is to be dead in the middle of a BK and simply send in the Form 928 or what ever the number is and that’s it.

I’m not going to get into the BK attorney thing here, but I want to make two final points.

I have been privy to information from some of the best attorneys in the land, due to my association with the insurance business. I’m going to tie that in with what I have mentioned.

First, a statement from F. Lee Bailey. I head it directly from his mouth on a conference call. He was discussing the subject of adequate legal representation. He said that good legal representation is the ticket to the arena of our justice system. Without it one is lost. I know some of you remember he was part of the so called “Dream Team”, which was a criminal trial. However, Bailey’s area of expertise in his years was in the area of Civil Litigation. So, that ought to speak for itself.

Second, I also heard it from an attorney who over the years was the Prosecuting Attorney and District Attorney of a county and then later the Attorney General of the State of OK. He said that in his best estimate that at least 35% of the people in prison today are innocent and are there because they lacked adequate legal representation. Granted that is criminal charges, but what he was getting at was that whether it’s criminal or civil the same thing applies. He also had a saying something like, some people say that some problems are not about the money it’s the principle. He would go to say, You’re damn right it’s about the money and this holds true to our cases and the creditors go by that rule of thinking also.

So, don’t ever assume that XYZ creditor is going to roll over and sell their debt to a JDB and that they are going to take a half-a$$ approach at it by throwing a bunch of cases against the wall to see what sticks. You might just get nailed in the end.

I have mentioned two possible criminal charges that could come out of these civil cases. Say it aint so, bury your head in the sand or whatever. The fact remains there whether you believe it or not. Do some of that old “Due Diligence”, don’t take my word for it.

I took the time to go through all this to try and point out some things that some of you might have over looked in an effort to try and help you. You’ve got to do the old CYA all the time or you might just get burned in the end.

I can now say I have been there and done that.

Some here are worried about their credit. Forget credit, if you are reading this you are probably in there with me and there aint no credit. Granted it can be restored over time, and the BK thing is the biggest hit. If you are reading this your have bigger fish to fry than worrying about credit.

With the situation today, none of us may need to worry about credit let alone the future. When the Dollar finally take it’s hit and is useless we wont need credit because if we could borrow $100,000,000 we might be able to buy a piece of candy or something that miniscule. If you have money, which you’re probably like me and don’t, but you may know someone that still has a little, tell them to invest in gold just in case. Remember the December 2012 thing is still up in the air.:mrgreen: Seriously, remember the Iran and Israel and Middle East. We may just be worrying about nothing.:wink:

Sorry I rambled, but I hope I might have brought some issues to light that some might not have thought of. Maybe I might have helped someone.

One final thought. If you play with fire long enough, you will eventually get burned.

Good luck everybody. You’ll need it.

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Hello and thank-you for your input.

I totally agree with the middle east situation and 2012 and I am not worried about credit. I just want a place to live out my life peacefully. I do not totally agree that we got ourselves into this. My credit was about as perfect as one can get for 35 years. It only took a few (relatively speaking) money men and those in the know that threw this country into a tailspin so I'm not taking all the rap. The average layman had no idea this was coming-that the country would be bankrupt-housing at a stand still-upside down mortgages-unemployment skyrocketing for this length of time ect. I got in this mess because I used credit cards to pay my bills when we lost 2 businesses (both tourist related) due to no money for touring!! I thought for sure the economy would turn around and I could pay all back-I had done it in the past easily but-alas-I am getting off subject.

I do not intend to lie in court-I don't, and I mean don't REALLY know this particular loan is valid. I REALLY don't recall having a credit card from COUNTRYWIDE-they had my mortgage which was foreclosed on and auctioned off. I got a 1099 for that. The JDB attached 12 statements which say COUNTRYWIDE had the loan for 4 months then CHASE had it for the next 5 then SLATE had it the last 3 statements-these were 12 consecutive statements. Now before I started studying this site I wouldn't have given this lawsuit a 2nd thought-just accepted the judgement and took whatever came BUT after reading the many valid complaints I looked again at this summons and then my credit report and then I got 2 more letters from 2 seperate collection agencies both for the same original lender but with different account numbers (I only had 1 account with this lender) and I started realizing something was terribly wrong. My husband isn't on these loans but I pulled his credit as well and there are 2 of these same accounts posted there. I don't know if they can do that or not but I'm at least going to check it out. There is also a debt on my credit report that has been closed due to DECEASED. I'm thinking that may be a valid reason to appeal to the court to dismiss my case-LOL!! So apparantly these JDBs' DO make mistakes and often.

I'm just trying to find out if my sister-in-law can put a lien on our home for the money she lent us to buy it if she has paperwork to prove the loan from a year ago. I also was asking if there was a solution to the property matter of having .7 of an acre too much to qualify for bankruptcy. Could we sell the .7 of an acre or have a lien put on it from a 3rd party like you can with a vehicle.

I would LOVE to have a lawyer represent me-I'm tired, old and broke but I can't seem to find a free one so-as it has been all my life-it will be up to me to see this thru and-God willing-it will have a positive outcome. Of course I could just ignore the whole thing and let other people decide my fate and at one point in my youth I did do that but I'm getting tired of being kicked while I'm down-time to fight now so I'm exercising my rights as an AMERICAN citizen while this is still considered AMERICA.

I promise I won't lie-I just want to see the paper trail of how COUNTRYWIDE went to CHASE and then SLATE over a 12 month period and I want to see the contract I signed for a credit card from COUNTRYWIDE as I did not know they were in the credit card business. I may not do it correctly and I may still end up with a judgement and a lien on my house but at least I will know I tried.

Thank-you again for your time and advice. It is something to be considered for sure. Everyones' case is different.

Edited by backinthe50's
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Methinks Max2 is a collector TROLL.

Insisting that a creditor prove its case is not fraud, it's your right as a litigant. It's due process of law.

If perjury is actively prosecuted in these cases, then why aren't all the robosigners in jail? And why isn't the JDB lawyer I beat in jail, when he lied in court about not getting my pleadings, when I sent them by certified mail and had proof he did get them?

Yes, in an ideal world, we would all have attorneys to represent us. That world does not exist, hence forums like this one.

To the OP: I think the most likely scenario, if creditors sue you and they win, is they would get a lien on your house. It is unlikely they would foreclose, especially if the property is not worth much. As for the "extra" 0.7 acre, if they did try to foreclose, you would still be entitled to your homestead exemption, so maybe they would try to split off the 0.7 acre, if possible. It sounds like a legal quagmire that few creditors would care to enter, IMO. Usually the judgment liens just sit there until the property is sold.

Edited by nobk4me
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I'm not completely sure, but I believe you can have a valuation of the asset and pay into the BK the excess value over the allowed exemption. It's considered a Ch 7 with assets. Or you can file a Ch 13.

I know you can do this in a Ch 13.

I believe you can in a Ch 7; but this is definately a question for a BK attorney. Not one of the mill type attorneys- a real one. As to BK attorney fees - you can roll in Ch 13 attorney fees, but not Ch 7 fees. There are such things as Ch 13's with extremely low fees too. But you need a Bk attorney that specializes in 13's and knows what he is doing (not all of them do).

Note: I went through a complex BK myself in 2008. I had to do it with an attorney (I'm in the Southern District of Fl). I would not have considered doing my Bk without an excellent attorney. The more research you do the better attorney you can get for your $$$ and I think you will need a good one given your circumstances.

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I wasn’t suggesting that anyone was going to lie in court. I was just talking mainly about my case I thought I was going to try and fight. The potential is there if put on a stand and one was to make a willful or wanton slip and it could be proven. I just threw it out there as food for thought.

I have stepped up to the plate on 5 occasions in the last 20 years and said the affirmative to the question: Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?" The last time being on February 28, 2012 in front of the Bankruptcy Court Trustee at my Creditors Meeting. If I willfully lied they may not throw the book at me, but the potential is there whether you want to believe it or not. The least that could have happened in the BK case is that it would have been dismissed.

nobk4me & backinthe50s, you’re both right I’m trolling. All one has to do is click on my name and look at my feeble posts. I trolled a little in 2008 while discussing on my Citiscum case and then I skipped 2009 and 2010. Then I trolled toward the end of 2011 and I am now trolling in 2012. I haven’t caught a fish yet. I guess I need to quit trolling because I’m no good at it.

nobk4me you state, “Insisting that a creditor prove its case is not fraud, it's your right as a litigant. It's due process of law.”

If it’s not truly your debt then you are right, but if you did in deed sign on the dotted line, as the old saying goes, of that legal binding contract I mentioned, you have no case from the legal standpoint. Any attempt to circumvent or skirt around the debt that you incurred in good faith to obtain funds or credit is plain and simple fraud.

From the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:

Definition of FRAUD

1

a : deceit, trickery; specifically : intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value or to surrender a legal right b : an act of deceiving or misrepresenting : trick

2

a : a person who is not what he or she pretends to be : impostor; also : one who defrauds : cheat b : one that is not what it seems or is represented to be

There is no gray area. It’s black and white.

nobk4me you asked, “If perjury is actively prosecuted in these cases, then why aren't all the robosigners in jail? And why isn't the JDB lawyer I beat in jail, when he lied in court about not getting my pleadings, when I sent them by certified mail and had proof he did get them?” Why are you asking me, you should have asked the judge while you were in court. Did you ever think that the judge is trying to hurry through the tons of cases and might have just let it slip? After all, he or she is just human even though in some cases they might think they are gods.

From the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary again:

Definition of PERJURY

: the voluntary violation of an oath or vow either by swearing to what is untrue or by omission to do what has been promised under oath : false swearing

Once again, there is no gray area. It’s black and white.

I haven’t to date been struck by lightening, but the potential exist if I go out in a thunderstorm. I don’t plan on doing that either. I will attempt take reasonable steps to avoid being struck by lightening. That’s all I can do. The same applies here.

Now having said that all that, backinthe50s, I’ll tell you a little saying my wife’s boss told here one time: If it aint on paper it doesn’t exit as far as your property goes. I know some of you will use that against me on fighting the creditor. That may be tree, but remember what I said about my second case. LVNV Funding on a Crapital One account had the smoking gun. They had a real true copy of my signature on the application for the credit card. What could I say? Go to court and deny my signature. That’s why I just defaulted. I was beat hands down.

Back to you property loan and the sister in law. If it’s on paper I would imagine that all she would have to do is get an attorney and let him file suit against you r she could do it herself just like you can represent yourself. Then if the judgment is against you which I honestly can’t see why not if she has the paperwork, then she could have a lien placed on the property. Then the only way to have it removed would be to pay the judgment or the BK route with a motion to have the lien removed and you would get an Order to Avoid Judicial Lien and poof, it’s gone when the BK is discharged.

I learned this in all my trolling, I’m just kidding again. This comes from actual events in my case.

I wish you unbelievers were here, I could show you all the paperwork which has to be at least a couple of reams of paper. Starting with the threatening letter by the creditors, then the summons, then the judgments, then the BK filing and all the associated paperwork copies my attorney has given me and then maybe you wouldn’t think I’m a troll.

Here’s a quote from an old movie. ”Frankly my dear, I don’t give a damn”. Character: Rhett Butler, portrayed by Clark Gable in Gone With The Wind. Circa 1939 if my recall is correct.

Now on the attorney it depends on what you are needing one for. To fight the creditor, then I agree 100%. You’re looking at, and this is only an example: $ 150.00 to $500.00 per hour depending on what part of the country you are in. Now, on the other hand, around here if it’s a BK case they all have a set fees. So, the hourly charge is not there.

I’ve got to go now. I have trolling to do on other sites. Good luck to y’all and I’ll see you in court.:mrgreen:

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Well, Max2, I did look at your other posts. Maybe you are a legit debtor, and not a debt collector shill. But you sure sound like one, trying to scare people with terms like fraud and perjury.

But perhaps the BK attorneys are the ones who scared you. Yes, some lawyers will lie and try to play on your fears to manipulate clients into doing what they want. I know, because I have consulted with them.

Maybe filing BK was the best option for you. Great, I hope it all works out for you.

But, it's not the best option for everybody. For me, and probably the OP, it would be a disaster. So we have to look at alternatives to BK.

So far the alternatives have worked well for me. And for a lot of other people, if you read the Lawyer in the House forum. No, not everybody beats the collectors, but a lot of them do.

If what we are doing is fraud, then why wasn't your BK a fraud? After all, you got out of paying those debts you claim are legitimate. You said this: "Any attempt to circumvent or skirt around the debt that you incurred in good faith to obtain funds or credit is plain and simple fraud." Isn't that what your BK filing is?

If you really don't give a damn, it is puzzling that you have spent so much energy here denigrating what is a major portion of this website.

But, I am done feeding the troll.

Edited by nobk4me
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nobk4me

There isn’t any maybe about me being a legit debtor. I wasn’t trying to scare anyone I was just trying to point out some concerns I had in my cases and what I saw as some possible threats in the way I handled them. If I made anyone scared I apologize. I was only giving something to think about. After all this is a discussion board and people share their experiences and thoughts. That’s all I was doing.

The BK attorney didn’t scare me. I belong to a service that allowed me to discuss my case by phone with an attorney before I ever went to a BK attorney. He first determined that I did meet the means test and then the service referred me to the attorney that I used for the BK. From the initial meeting with the BK attorney to the Creditors Meeting she was nothing more than a help. She didn’t beat around the bush and told us from the beginning what to expect and that she saw no problem with us following through to the Discharge with no major problems. She is good at what she does and did a lot of preparation and figuring on the asset values and being sure we met all the exemptions. She did tell us that the particular trustee that we were to appear before was known to drive to a filer’s residence and check to see that they were not living in a mansion with the luxury cars, boat and whatever. The lady was tough. I witnessed her question one couple on the valuation of their autos and Real Property and they had an attorney.

The BK was the best option for me. No doubt about it

One question though. If BK is not the best option for you why are you here on the BK Thread? And if you haven’t been there and done that how can you know the ins and outs other than what you have heard and maybe read?

It’s good the alternatives have worked for you.

I have only had two real live suits with judgments and one being beat hands down, with potential of about 6 more lurking in the background.

Now all I can say is go back and read the print I posted and not between the lines. In the first case Citiscum the OC and their attorneys did not have the smoking gun of the signed agreement. That didn’t mean that on the day of court, that they could not produce my John Hancock on a copy of the agreement that I did indeed sign. How does one deny their signature on a copy of a document?

Then the second case, Crapital One sold to LVNV Funding as I said, they had the smoking gun a copy of my signed agreement. I made copies of every application when I applied for the credit cards and had them in a file. Sure enough, their copy was exactly the same image as my copy. How in the world could I deny that?

Then there was another Crapital One case of the 1099 they sent in on me on December 31, 2010 as a charge off. The statute of limitations had not run out, but as I said they decided to get a tax write off and stick me with the additional income. That one would have been fun trying to disprove it to the IRS, to whom the taxpayer is always guilty until proven innocent. Then the threat of suit was still there.

I admit that the big banks and bankers are truly low down crooks, with all their change of agreements, jacking up interest rates, not working to a resolution if possible and then passing off the debt for pennies on the dollar to the low life scum sucking JDBs. There is a special place in Hell for all these cutthroats.

One might be able to get off on their debt by denying the amount that the JDB is suing for. From the point of the last statement of the OC to the point of the suit by the JDB you truly have no accounting of the final figure. However, the fact would remain that the debt did exist in the first place and that the amount would be the only questionable issue. Then if that were the case all the judge would have to do is make the JDB give a detailed accounting or make them reduce it back to the OC’s final statement before it was sold. That I will admit is just a guess, but I somehow I imagine it is feasible.

If some beat the collector that’s great, but in my case the collector had me beat hands down.

Now you asked, ”If what we are doing is fraud, then why wasn't your BK a fraud?.

It’s real simple. I stepped up and admitted to my debt and bankruptcy laws help people who can no longer pay their creditors get a fresh start – by liquidating assets to pay their debts or by creating a repayment plan. You plain and simple don’t hide anything.

I didn’t hide anything and laid it all out on the table and took advantage of the bankruptcy laws. If you do hide something here is some scenarios. They use that mythological term again.

Bankruptcy Fraud - Criminal Investigation (CI)

Bankruptcy fraud | LII / Legal Information Institute

Bankruptcy Fraud

Now one final thing the reason some of my hypothetical situations may be overlooked is that number one, the courts on all levels are flooded and they are just trying to move cases through as efficiently as possible. All levels of government are strapped for cash and that goes for enforcement of a lot of laws on the books. They don’t go looking for violations, but if brought to their attention, I’m pretty sure they will act accordingly to see that the laws are enforced and the violator is punished.

Then you say, if you really don't give a damn, it is puzzling that you have spent so much energy here denigrating what is a major portion of this website.

I was referring to your opinion of my being a troll. See, you can’t even interpret that. How in the world could you interpret anything legal in nature?

If I scared someone again I apologize again, but there might just be some truth in what I have brought up for thought. I have wasted too much time here it’s apparent that some folks can’t see the forest for the trees.

Think about it. Oh, I’m still hungry because you haven’t fed me anything.

I’ll leave you with four quotes of a real man I’m sure you have probably never heard of.

Will Rogers Quotes:

“A man only learns in two ways, one by reading, and the other by association with smarter people”

“An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out”

“You know everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects”

“Never miss a chance to shut up”

That’s what I’m going to do now.;)

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Is this what is meant by your post being hijacked? So' date=' does anyone know what happens if I have .7 over the allowed property in a chapter 7 bankruptcy if it is not divideable? Can you still file?[/quote']

Go back and read my post about paying into the BK estate your overage. Then talk to a BK attorney - that is how it is handled when you have a non-dividable asset - you become either a Ch 13 or a Ch 7 asset case.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Is this what is meant by your post being hijacked

Lol I had to laugh.

OP you sir owe me a coke....and a new shirt.

And I'll agree with the earlier post in this thread about dont trust BK attnys.

From the 4 I consulted with prior to abandoning that thought and doing do it your self settlement they are NOT on your side. They just want to push some paper and get paid. Quickly.

3 out of the 4 when I began discussing the intricacies of my case their eyes just glazed over.

No thank you.

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Always a pleasure to provide a good time for all!! LOL

Yes, I have found that I can keep the property as you guys stated-paying something for it. It sits next to a power co. land so not much anyone can do with it anyway.

I also noticed a glazed over look when I started talking to the BK attorney as well. Have several issues to deal with though. Some 1099s' on 4 seperate properties and 15 possible JDB suits. Ahhh-such is life. Getting thru alright with people on here so thanks to all!!

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I hope you have a good BK attorney. I had to really search for mine. There are quite a few out there that belong to the large "BK mill type" firms - and if you have anything at all complicated, they will not be the right choice. BTW, the mill type firm operates on the premise of essentially lower fees/no service type BK. If you are in the S Fl area, pm me and I can give you the name of an excellent attorney. If not, interview several BK attorney's. Have your info handy when you interview them. IMO if they are in the large, fancy offices...run away.

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