Hopeful1 Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Any info would be greatly appreciated. I am trying to find out if it is legal for a CA to double the balance due on an old utility account in PA. This is my second CA. The first did not try to double. I do not have the agreement and cannot locate any statute regarding this in the PA code, other than:(b.1) Unfair or deceptive collection methods.--It is unlawful for a collector to collect any amount, including any interest, fee, charge or expense incidental to the principal obligation, unless such amount is expressly provided in the agreement creating the debt or is permitted by law.Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legaleagle Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Debt collection in most states is covered under banking law. Usually there is no private enforcement, only the state can sue. You'd have to find out how the amount was calculated. Utility bill? Electric, or like that? Depends on what interest rate they can charge and how old the debt is. For now, just dispute it with the CRAs. I don't think you could sue them if you haven't paid anything yet, you would have no damages. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stStep Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 I will disagree a bit with you Legal...I would think that if the CA doubles a debt w/o an explanation, then you've got an FDCPA violation under 1692e and 1692f(1). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopeful1 Posted March 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 legaleagle, it is a natural gas utility.I had posted before about this CA in "Help please with 2 different dunning letters from IC system"Basic idea of that ^ post is that I was sent 2 dunning letters for the same account on two sequential dates with the same wording, mini miranda and two different balances. The second letter had doubled the amount, stating it was for "fees" they had been "advised" to add. Very vague wording.There's been some debate in other posts as to whether or not this is overshadowing. I have sent them a DV recently, which has been signed for but no contact since.I'm trying to wrap my brain around this: if the doubling were legal, why didn't the first CA try to do it?P.S. I haven't paid anything to any CAs regarding this "alleged" debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stStep Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Here's what I'd do...fax a copy of both letters to the utility and demand an explanation of the difference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopeful1 Posted March 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Is the OC obligated to answer my questions about this?Would this be a case to send a 623?(Sorry-still a newbie despite all the posts ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stStep Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Asking the OC does 2 things...1) it could expose an FDCPA violation by the CA, or 2) opens the door for you to renegotiate w/ the OC as far as settling everything- and cutting out the CA. It's not a 623 unless the item has been reported to the CRAs - in that case a 623 letter is sent out after disputing with the CRAs to the data furnisher (whoever is reporting). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopeful1 Posted March 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 I see...so is there a particular department I am looking to contact and what's the basic idea of the letter need to state so I get this right?And thanks again. You are always so helpful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopeful1 Posted March 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 This is the rough idea of what I may send to the OC. Just want to be sure I'm covering my @ss on this but still getting the info I need to proceed.Gas CompanyP.O. BoxPa. March 29, 2012To Whom It May Concern: I am writing in regards to my closed account with Gas company. I have recently been contacted by an agency claiming to be collecting on your behalf for an alleged outstanding debt with Gas Company. I am requesting copies of the last three bills on this account, which would be through the end of January 2011. Thank You, Hopeful1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legaleagle Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) I will disagree a bit with you Legal...Would a utility company be considered an OC? If so, no FDCPA. He really didn't make it that clear. If it is the CA reporting false info, wouldn't it be an FCRA violation instead? In any event, he has to unravel the reason for the increase. Edited March 29, 2012 by legaleagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopeful1 Posted March 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Sorry for any confusion. The utility company is the OC, but account is in collections. Received 2 dunning letters with 2 different amounts for same account from a CA with no explanation for the doubled amount on the second one, other than the second one says they were "advised" to add "fees". Awaiting response to my DV to the CA (not expecting much) but would like to know if what the CA is trying to do with the dual dunning letters and with the doubled amount on the second letter is legal. According to the OC's website, they would charge 1.5% on late balances until paid in full. Doesn't mention what happens once it goes to collections.The math isn't the same as the CA is trying to use.Wondering if I should contact the OC and ask for copies of the last few bills for the account or if I should send copies of the dunning letters asking for clarification. Or maybe there's something I'm not thinking of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stStep Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 I will disagree a bit with you Legal...Would a utility company be considered an OC? If so, no FDCPA. He really didn't make it that clear. If it is the CA reporting false info, wouldn't it be an FCRA violation instead? In any event, he has to unravel the reason for the increase.I mean on the CAs end - they add fees they cannot explain, then you've got an FDCPA violation. Also, if the CA is reporting false info to the CRAs, then yes, you do have an FCRA violation as well...///I would start playing the two companies against each other - send the OC a letter (including the copies of the 2 dunning letters) and inquire how the collection amount can double in 1 day. Who advised it? Chances are, the CA added these fees- they only get a percentage of the collection account's face value. If the collection balance is $100 and their commission is 10%, well, they lose money if you DV - since the CA will have to foot the bill in order to track down info. So doubling the balance is a good way to make some $$ on the account...is it legal? No. Do many people do anything about it? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopeful1 Posted March 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) Ok so the CA has to prove the amount, right?What recourse might I have if they push for the doubled amount with no justification? Edited March 30, 2012 by Hopeful1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stStep Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 If the CA added unauthorized fees, that is an FDCPA violation. You'd have to file suit against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopeful1 Posted March 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Alright. Thank you.Do I need to take any action if the CA ends up either sending it back to the OC or to another CA?Just trying to cover all the bases before I send off anything to the OC.I'll be pulling CRs soon to see who is on there now--last one I pulled had a different CA on it and the same amount as on the non-doubled dunning letter but apparently has been sold since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legaleagle Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 They still committed the violation when they had the account. Selling it or sending it elsewhere doesn't get them off the hook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopeful1 Posted March 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) Is there a violation with sending two dunning letters?I can post them if you wouldn't mind looking over them. I've been told this could be since they each have the same account listed and give me my 30 day response period and each has the mini miranda. I'm not sure when my 30 day period would be up due to the two different dates, or what the amount is since it differs. Edited March 30, 2012 by Hopeful1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopeful1 Posted March 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) There's also something else that's been mentioned to me about these concerning the font size. Is this really an issue?Same exact "notice" mini miranda on each letter. Edited March 30, 2012 by Hopeful1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopeful1 Posted April 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stStep Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 You could argue that two different letters is a violation in the sense that you've letters that give conflicting periods to dispute...I think it's a 1692e violation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopeful1 Posted April 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 (edited) Thanks to both of you! Very helpful information.Is there any statute of limitations for me to file? Edited April 5, 2012 by Hopeful1 corrected question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stStep Posted April 6, 2012 Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 You have 1 year from the date of the violation...I sue on day 360... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts