Lucky Me, My JDB Is Being Pretty Aggressive!

[Rivertime]

Well, it looks like the JDB suing me is going to be playing harder than most.

For the short version, I'm in California and the JDB suing me is son of JDB. Big Bank to JDB1 to JDB2 and it is JDB2 who is suing me.

It appears that JDB2 is subpoenaing account records from Big Bank including statements, copies of all payments and last payment and also the affidavit of sale and information from Big Bank to JDB1 and accompanying exhibits listing the account.

I also got a "Notice To Consumer" letting me know I could object to this subpoena because of privacy rights.

What do you all think?

Is this somewhat typical for a JDB to do this?

I'd really like some input from all of you who have fought.

Thanks to all in advance.

Leave it to me to get a JDB to unleash the dogs of war!

rt

[usagi555]

Well, it looks like the JDB suing me is going to be playing harder than most.

For the short version, I'm in California and the JDB suing me is son of JDB. Big Bank to JDB1 to JDB2 and it is JDB2 who is suing me.

It appears that JDB2 is subpoenaing account records from Big Bank including statements, copies of all payments and last payment and also the affidavit of sale and information from Big Bank to JDB1 and accompanying exhibits listing the account.

I also got a "Notice To Consumer" letting me know I could object to this subpoena because of privacy rights.

What do you all think?

Is this somewhat typical for a JDB to do this?

I'd really like some input from all of you who have fought.

Thanks to all in advance.

Leave it to me to get a JDB to unleash the dogs of war!

rt

I think the bank itself may fight it, or it may insist that they pay the bank for the records. Or the bank may simply not have the records anymore. I don't have a legal basis for you to fight it right now, but if you can find one, quash that fracker.

What I expect is for them try to file an MSJ if they get even a 10th of what they are hoping for. If you can survive that, they could have a truckload of records from the bank, and unless they get somebody there to testify as to the records' authenticity, it's all 100% inadmissible hearsay. Furthermore, with two JDBs, they still have to get the 1st JDB to step up. This is a tactic with two purposes: Maybe get an MSJ plus trying to intimidate the crap out of you.

[Rudy Baylor]

How much is the alleged debt?

[1stStep]

Send over a BOP to the JDB suing you...

If it's past 3 years since the default, there's a good chance that the original bank no longer has any records...

[Rivertime]

How much is the alleged debt?

10k and some change

[1stStep]

When was the alleged default?

[Rivertime]

Send over a BOP to the JDB suing you...

If it's past 3 years since the default, there's a good chance that the original bank no longer has any records...

Thanks,

I've BoPed them, we're in the middle of discovery now, looks like they're gonna try to get serious about getting docs. I hope their planning on having the affiant from Big Bank show up at trial to validate their affidavit

It's been about 2 1/2 years since charge-off.

rt

[Coltfan1972]

"Big Bank to JDB1 to JDB2 and it is JDB2 who is suing me."

Let the fun begin. Object to the subpoena? Well why in the world would you not want to cooperate.

So lets get this straight. They plan on proving that big bank 1 sold the account to JDB 1 and then JDB sold the account to JDB 2, and they are going to do all this by subpoenaing your bank records. In other words they are going to get records that prove their was an account, and an account you probably are not even disputing you had.

Um okay, knock yourself out with your bad bad subpoena tough guy. Bring it.

Now you might not want to do this, but I'd let them spend all that money with their fancy subpoena and their intimidation tactic. Then tell them, after they have already spent the money of course, that you are good with them having your records and is there anything else you can provide or do to make sure they have them all.

However, your response might not want to be that forward. So you might consider calling their subpoena bet and re-raising them with a nice fat discovery request and demand for production of documents, and don't take your foot of their throat on the issue of standing. What I mean by that is just hammering them with every record that you know they won't have but they must have to prove their case. Keep in mind that even with all those records in the world they are hearsay.

So, time to demand all their witnesses that are going to authenticate all this evidence they are issuing their subpoena for.

In other words, how are all the banking records in the world going to prove they own the account. They want to play hard ball? Fine, start the fight, hit them right in the head in their back with a 100 MPH fastball and then dare them to charge the mound on you.

They are not playing hard ball, they are playing you for stupid. Time to show them your ready to party. It's virtually impossible for a JDB to prove their case.

You throw in the fact this is the 2nd JDB?????

Time to start the fight. Nothing says take that subpoena and shove it up your a$$ like throwing the first punch.

[Rivertime]

Coltfan1972, you should be a motivational speaker to all of us going through something like this. I'm reading your post saying to myself "Yeah, that's right, bring it on, I'll humiliate you when we get to court!"

I have denied the alleged document copies they have provided. They're copies, they say so right on them "This Statement is A Facsimile - Not an Original," I don't know if they're actually mine or even if the information on them is accurate. I want to see originals.

They currently have my first round of discovery requests. I sent them some form Rogs Seadragon helped with and also like 4 or 5 document requests with input from Calawyer. I figured what ever they couldn't produce I'd then go for admissions.

So I'm taking from this that the subpoena is nothing to worry about and it would probably be a waist of time to object?

Thanks again to all, this sit is AWESOME!

rt

[usagi555]

Coltfan1972, you should be a motivational speaker to all of us going through something like this. I'm reading your post saying to myself "Yeah, that's right, bring it on, I'll humiliate you when we get to court!"

I have denied the alleged document copies they have provided. They're copies, they say so right on them "This Statement is A Facsimile - Not an Original," I don't know if they're actually mine or even if the information on them is accurate. I want to see originals.

They currently have my first round of discovery requests. I sent them some form Rogs Seadragon helped with and also like 4 or 5 document requests with input from Calawyer. I figured what ever they couldn't produce I'd then go for admissions.

So I'm taking from this that the subpoena is nothing to worry about and it would probably be a waist of time to object?

Thanks again to all, this sit is AWESOME!

rt

There are two reasons to try to get the subpoena quashed. First is to drag their asses through the procedure and make them spend money fighting you over their own actions. The 2nd reason, and this only applies if you stand a very good chance of beating them on this issue, is to humiliate those licensed attorneys by beating them. In other words, if you see a slam dunk reason that the court should rule in your favor, beat them for the sake of beating them. Otherwise, wait and ambush them when they think they have you whipped.

[NCalDebt]

The JDB did the same to me after I sent them BOP request. They did subpoena the records from OC. I did receive the package of statements about 20 days after BOP was due.

[Seadragon]

There are two reasons to try to get the subpoena quashed. First is to drag their asses through the procedure and make them spend money fighting you over their own actions. The 2nd reason, and this only applies if you stand a very good chance of beating them on this issue, is to humiliate those licensed attorneys by beating them. In other words, if you see a slam dunk reason that the court should rule in your favor, beat them for the sake of beating them. Otherwise, wait and ambush them when they think they have you whipped.

The court denied my motion(liberal discovery is allowed it seems). Opposing the subpoena only makes them get their ducks in a row.

Think about how are they going to authenticate the documents, was it an employee of the bank or an employee of a bank that took over the other bank.

So what you should do is have the records sent to the court and then let the court decide which records are discoverable. so oppose it by requiring the records be sent to the court and the court rule on discoverability.

OR have the bank send duplicates to you so they cannot slip records in on the same affidavit and a list of documents must accompany the documents.

I had a hard time with the bank records.

hopefully they have lost them.

[legaleagle]

This is a rather unique thing for a JDB to do. They are going back to the OC and subpoenaing records? They probably have some sort of contract agreement with the OC when they buy this crap. I'd love to see one, try asking for it in discovery. It may contain information that would lead to the subpoena being no good. For instance, they may have agreed to certain document levels when they bought the accounts. There may be privacy issues (they mentioned these) defined. There should also be an agreement between JDB 1 and JDB 2. I'd ask for that, too.

My bet is that there ARE no records. They sold the account, they legally washed their hands of it for now and all time. Why would they keep a bunch of records that have no value? The JDB apparently agreed to the minimal documents, or else they would have taken some sort of action when they bought all these accounts.

The bank will love this one, let them fight it. JDB 2 never did any business with them, why should they be subjected to a subpoena from someone requesting records they were never legally entitled to? They will argue that JDB 2 has an adequate remedy at law against JDB1.

Edited April 10, 2012 by legaleagle

[ljny369]

"Big Bank to JDB1 to JDB2 and it is JDB2 who is suing me."

Let the fun begin. Object to the subpoena? Well why in the world would you not want to cooperate.

So lets get this straight. They plan on proving that big bank 1 sold the account to JDB 1 and then JDB sold the account to JDB 2, and they are going to do all this by subpoenaing your bank records. In other words they are going to get records that prove their was an account, and an account you probably are not even disputing you had.

Um okay, knock yourself out with your bad bad subpoena tough guy. Bring it.

Now you might not want to do this, but I'd let them spend all that money with their fancy subpoena and their intimidation tactic. Then tell them, after they have already spent the money of course, that you are good with them having your records and is there anything else you can provide or do to make sure they have them all.

However, your response might not want to be that forward. So you might consider calling their subpoena bet and re-raising them with a nice fat discovery request and demand for production of documents, and don't take your foot of their throat on the issue of standing. What I mean by that is just hammering them with every record that you know they won't have but they must have to prove their case. Keep in mind that even with all those records in the world they are hearsay.

So, time to demand all their witnesses that are going to authenticate all this evidence they are issuing their subpoena for.

In other words, how are all the banking records in the world going to prove they own the account. They want to play hard ball? Fine, start the fight, hit them right in the head in their back with a 100 MPH fastball and then dare them to charge the mound on you.

They are not playing hard ball, they are playing you for stupid. Time to show them your ready to party. It's virtually impossible for a JDB to prove their case.

You throw in the fact this is the 2nd JDB?????

Time to start the fight. Nothing says take that subpoena and shove it up your a$$ like throwing the first punch.

Just getting ready for a similar fight, with what I think is a JDB. I have no intention of letting them of the "standing" hook and I've prepared some discovery. Any suggestions/links gladly accepted.

In your experience. would most courts require them to produce and prove each charge? Don't mean to seem dense but why is it "virtually impossible for a JDB to prove their case"?.

[usagi555]

Just getting ready for a similar fight, with what I think is a JDB. I have no intention of letting them of the "standing" hook and I've prepared some discovery. Any suggestions/links gladly accepted.

In your experience. would most courts require them to produce and prove each charge? Don't mean to seem dense but why is it "virtually impossible for a JDB to prove their case"?.

Because they did not originate the records that they want to use as evidence, making them not only hearsay, but inadmissible hearsay, and they also rarely have the evidence linking your alleged account to the bill of sale that they like to claim proves that they own your alleged account.

The courts, for the most part, will only require them to prove their case if you go through the steps. You propound discovery requests, they object, they try to unload their crap on the court, you object, etc... If you don't properly object, they will get their evidence admitted and you will probably lose.

[Coltfan1972]

Yeah, what he said ^^^

The key is fighting and objecting. If not, you can lose even if they have/had evidence that would have not won.

[ljny369]

Because they did not originate the records that they want to use as evidence, making them not only hearsay, but inadmissible hearsay, and they also rarely have the evidence linking your alleged account to the bill of sale that they like to claim proves that they own your alleged account.

The courts, for the most part, will only require them to prove their case if you go through the steps. You propound discovery requests, they object, they try to unload their crap on the court, you object, etc... If you don't properly object, they will get their evidence admitted and you will probably lose.

That you for those.

Got a Law Firm that is often a JDB, so I'm not sure if they are acting as a Law Firm or a JDB. I sent discovery request and they sent very little. 3 or 4 of the last of what they clam are the statements. They basically ignored the rest of the requests and their rationale for not answering was laughable.

Any suggestions for Standing questions in discovery? I have some, but want to make sure I'm covered and didn't forget anything.

[Coltfan1972]

Alleged bill of sale(s)

Alleged contract(s)

Alledged chain of custody

Alleged assignment(s)

Alleged date of sale(s)

How they know your Alleged Account/Debt was part of the sale(s)

If there is an affidavit about the sale, you want to know all about the party signing the affidavit

- how long with the company

- title

- how many affidavits they sign a day/month/year

- what is the exact first hand knowlege they have of the alleged account/debt

- if it is from the JDB themselves you want to send an admission request asking them to admit the party signing the affidavit is not employed by the original creditor

- an admission that the party has no personal first hand knowledge of the records

- an admission that the party is basing their knowledge of the records only on what was provided them.

- an admission the JDB did not originate any of the documents that were provided to you.

You get the point, just rip their throat out on the issue and don't let up.

[calawyer]

Because they did not originate the records that they want to use as evidence, making them not only hearsay, but inadmissible hearsay, and they also rarely have the evidence linking your alleged account to the bill of sale that they like to claim proves that they own your alleged account.

The courts, for the most part, will only require them to prove their case if you go through the steps. You propound discovery requests, they object, they try to unload their crap on the court, you object, etc... If you don't properly object, they will get their evidence admitted and you will probably lose.

Exactly!

The only way the records will be admissible at trial is if they also subpoena the OC witness to show up and testify. If OC is out of state, then JDB is out of luck.

[ljny369]

Thanks.

I have most of those, I am going to do this in order and a step at a time, with different demands. First, insuring that the named "Plaintiff" is the actually the Plaintiff. I guarantee these guys read this site, so I don't want to go into to much detail.

[Rivertime]

Exactly!

The only way the records will be admissible at trial is if they also subpoena the OC witness to show up and testify. If OC is out of state, then JDB is out of luck.

BINGO, I think!

The OC is in Indiana!

I do have a strategy question:

Would I need to subpoena the OC witness or would the JDB2 need to do that in order to back-up their hearsay affidavit of records to be admissable... after I object to it of course???

Thanks for the spirited thread!

rt

[1stStep]

They would need to get that person to appear...

[calawyer]

They would need to get that person to appear...

Ot prepare and serve an affidavit "in compliance" with CCP 98 and hope like heck that you don't try to subpoena the witness at whatever fake address they put in the affidavit.

[Rivertime]

Ot prepare and serve an affidavit "in compliance" with CCP 98 and hope like heck that you don't try to subpoena the witness at whatever fake address they put in the affidavit.

So that will be my plan... a little more cheese for the trap...

Thanks,

rt

[calawyer]

So that will be my plan... a little more cheese for the trap...

Thanks,

rt

Sorry. I don't think I was clear. I mean that you should be on the lookout for an affidavit served under CCP 98 from the out-of-state witness. It will give a California address and say that the person can be served at that address during the 20 days immediately prior to

trial.

The person will not actually be there, but you must obtain a subpoena from the Court and attempt to serve the witness at that address.