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I just had an idea. Any thoughts?


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OK, this might be a really bad idea, may be soundly shot down, or it may cause you to sing my praises.

I oftentimes get chided by Coltfan for my willingness to engage in the unauthorized practice of law. Not because I want to, but because my wife or neighbor who was the Defendant are not the most saavy people.

I have also read some other posters talk about the same thing.

Has the idea ever crossed the mind of any of you to file a petition to intervene? Would it work?

In illinois, the statute is as follows:

(735 ILCS 5/2‑408) (from Ch. 110, par. 2‑408)

Sec. 2‑408. Intervention. (a) Upon timely application anyone shall be permitted as of right to intervene in an action: (1) when a statute confers an unconditional right to intervene; or (2) when the representation of the applicant's interest by existing parties is or may be inadequate and the applicant will or may be bound by an order or judgment in the action; or (3) when the applicant is so situated as to be adversely affected by a distribution or other disposition of property in the custody or subject to the control or disposition of the court or a court officer.

I'm wondering if a spouse could argue that a lien being placed on property or a garnishment getting slapped onto a familiy budget could trigger the adversely affected aspect. The other issue is can one pro-se argue that they are better than their pro-se spouse.

Just a thought open for feedback.

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I oftentimes get chided by Coltfan for my willingness to engage in the unauthorized practice of law. Not because I want to, but because my wife or neighbor who was the Defendant are not the most saavy people.

Well you did approach the bench in court and argued with the other sides attorney in the hallway on behalf of your friend. :lol: Hey, I know you are just practicing. ;) It's tough watching somebody just get run right over. At least you want to help!!

Unfortunately, I have to agree with Sea on this one. Now the spouse both being pro-se, I see that for sure flying with the court. You just have no dog in the fight with your friend. Other than being sad for your friend, a judgement against them, in the eyes of the law, has no effect on you.

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Probably the best way to Handel it would be to do all the leg work, then find a rent a lawyer to take it over with the information you provide. Then, they can polish it up a bit and run with it. That way, you would be legal and save some money for the most part. Just a thought..........

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Well I suppose if it puts me on the right side of the law half the time, that will be my tactic.

I may even be willing to try some crazy arguments--simply for the sake of pissing off some p.o.s. attorney. The judge wouldn't get upset with me since I do live in the liberal bastion of hell in illinois, and the judge could easily see that my intentions were honorable (hopefully the judge wouldn't be staring at it too hard).

I kind of wish that I never stumbled across this site. Strike that. I'm glad I did; it gave me a new hobby, or as my wife would say "obsession." As a result of this forum--I've been asked by one judge if I was a 2nd year law student, and a 3rd year by another. Insulting actually since I would never want to bring myself down to the level of a JDB or OC lawyer. And besides, I shower far too often, so my stank doesn't permeate throughout the courtroom.

I take most of this personally, especially since a lawyer threatened to have me arrested. Don't know for what, since I hardly even take life seriously, and think that most things are games (I'm a product of the early 80's so video games were and still are a part of my life!). But I know that I do have the ability to get under my wifes skin--and that of a certain 'lawyer.' So when he is crushed in court by me, and the judge is not looking I'm going to elevate a certain finger and laugh at him.

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For your wife, I agree with Seadragon above. Go nuts and help her out. You two are a legally binding pair of turtledoves and can fly into court on each others behalf.

For your friend... I highly do not recommend not representing your friend or going anywhere near having input on their case. It helps to give them a bit of direction toward resources, but here are my reasons for never helping my friends with this stuff ever again:

  1. You will become informal 'legal counsel' for your friend. Friendships are informal. But what you're doing is building an expectation that you will help said friend when they're in a legal pinch. Even if you say, "Nonono, I only know the legal stuff about this one tiny little area of law," this is not going to sink in. If you don't want to be someone else's informal legal counselor, just don't be that to that person.
  2. When things go wrong, you are going to be blamed for it, whether or not it is your fault. I value my friendships more than I value the ego boost from being a non-lawyer beating real-lawyers. So, you told someone to file this and that and they didn't do it. Now the sky is falling and your BFF has no one to turn to.... except you, who originally helped them out. Now something really bad is happening to them. Sorry, but friends can be myopic and irrationally blame you for their problems. You do not want to be in this position!
  3. When the going gets tough, and worst -- if you're WRONG -- your friends will ditch you. Your friend can't be bothered to change the language from a form you looked up and gave them from a benchbook and they lose. Tough nuts. Your friend is going to hold this transgression against you because everytime they check their credit reports, they will see the judgment/blemish and think of YOU and how they took YOUR advice and look what happened. YOU DO NOT WANT TO GO THERE.
  4. At worst, your friend can be horribly upset about the outcome of whatever you tried to help them with. Even if they got the suit dismissed. Maybe they were expecting a settlement, maybe what you told them to do unintentionally precluded other forms of relief, or even exposed them to another unintended legal consequence. Maybe something you told them to put in their answer, like their annual income, crops up in a child support or custody case and they're suddenly open to other liabilities. Your friend can quickly become your new plaintiff against you, and this is NOT going to be fun.

It's all good to be friends and suggest sites like this, and tell them to visit a law library, but I've experienced the issues of having friends who are unfamiliar with how Credit Bureaus and Courts work and have grave misunderstandings of credit and debt. It is really really unfun.

If you want to have these conversations, fine. But disclaim yourself every time by saying, "I'm not a lawyer, you should really check out [insert legal resource here] or find a community legal workshop on this topic." You are NOT a lawyer. You may have had some success -- I've won 3 of 3 rounds myself, but you are NOT A LAWYER. You just aren't.

Edited by MehtaMar
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I take most of this personally

You do that and you won't lose. It's just business to the other side. You make it personal and won't stop until you have not just won but totally destroyed the other side, and they want no part of you.

You make yourself that .01% that they consider a loose cannon and want no part of and you get your way. It's just not fun to fight against somebody with a complete nothing to lose mentality. Even if you win, you lose.

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You do that and you won't lose. It's just business to the other side. You make it personal and won't stop until you have not just won but totally destroyed the other side, and they want no part of you.

You make yourself that .01% that they consider a loose cannon and want no part of and you get your way. It's just not fun to fight against somebody with a complete nothing to lose mentality. Even if you win, you lose.

But it must be tempered with the ability to be methodical and clear headed. Methodically personal - let your personal feelings determine your goals, not your actions.

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But it must be tempered with the ability to be methodical and clear headed. Methodically personal - let your personal feelings determine your goals, not your actions.

Oh 100% agree. You just go off the deep end on every little thing and you are beat. I'm talking about painting the other side into a corner and laying the trap, then an all out onslaught.

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I posted this before, the intervenor concept is for parties to the suit who are not involved and would like to be. They must petition the court to become an interested party. That requires that they be represented by counsel or, after being joined, file as pro se. By no means does it mean that you can just walk into court and represent a spouse because she doesn't understand procedure and you do.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I don't want to call it a loss, but my petition to intervene was rejected by the judge today. It was for a non-related person, but I made some solid arguments for the judge to consider.

The judge and I went back and forth with occasional comments by the OCs attorney (penis).

She knew the ins and outs of the petition since I sent her a courtesy copy a couple of weeks back, but literally it was a 20 minute discussion over the difficulty in qualifying someone to be added on as a party to the suit, or in her mind how to successfully operate such a petition.

I could tell that the judge very much wanted to grant it, since she felt that I was more than capable of bouncing the case out of court and shoving it up the OCs a$$. But in the end she had to do the right thing, which was to deny it for 'lack of standing' (never heard of that one, lol), though she said it was with great reluctance.

I told her I was in the position that I was in because the Defendant was entitled to Justice and fair dealings. She struggled to respond to that statement and tried to tell me how to help her obtain free or low cost legal service. I told her that it had all been tried, without success, and that the Defendant, clearly was unable to represent herself, understand the seriousness of the proceedings, and that someone---me appointing myself--had to raise issues so the court could be aware of the level of unjustness that had gone on up to that point.

I reiterated to the judge, however, that of course she would never know the circumstances unless they were presented to her, and that a default judgment is viewed by the court as an admission of guilt.

She then wrote a phone number on a piece of paper, and handed it to me. It was the name of a legal aid group. She said call them, and tell them the Defendant needs help. If they say they can't or won't help you, tell them I sent you. After all, she added 'I used to run the place.'

It felt nice to have a non-combative judge who immediately assumed I was a lawyer or had legal help (I'm not and I didn't, I promised her) who took the time to try to figure out the best way to resolve the issue.

As I walked out of Court, she said one more thing to me. You already have the suit, and wherewithal about you, so next time, why don't you appear with the credentials? I told her thank you, smirked at the OC's lawyer and left.

I then promised the OC's lawyer in the hallway that this wasn't over. It was only just beginning.

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