Totally overwhelmed! Condo Fees: attorney sneaking in the back door

[Goombah]

Hi everyone. I'm new to all this and feeling totally overwhelmed. The long and short of it: I've pulled my credit report and have all manner of problems to contend with (judgements, collections, foreclosure, et al), but one listing in particular has me reeling. I'm freeking po'd but have no idea how to deal with this.

While my condo was in the foreclosure process, I had the association's attorney hounding me for condo fees while piling on legal fees every time the paralegal sent me a form letter. So, like the average moron I went hungry while paying them everything they said I owed. Last I knew, the account was settled. I can probably dredge up the proof if need be. Anyway, I walked away from the property (here in Massachusetts) in September 2009 and notified the bank that I had vacated the premises.

So now after many long, hard years, I pull my credit report to find this same attorney has posted a new unpaid collection dated 9/1/11 for $5440. I'm guessing they continued to calculate the condo fees while the bank dragged their heals foreclosing on the property for months and months and months.

So what do I do? Should I start with a regular debt validation to the credit bureau? Honestly I'm afraid to stir the pot on this one and end up getting sued by these people, but I'm angry at their BS.

A quick point in the right direction would be most appreciated.

PS I just want to add that you guys keep me in hysterics. I have no clue what I'm doing but this site has finally given me a gleam of hope. Thanks

[neidermeyer]

Check the county land records ,, the bank may have won but if it's like here in Florida it isn't unusual for them to never register as owner so that they don't get the condo association fees sent to them ... property tax bill ... etc.

[BrunoTheJDBkiller]

I can probably dredge up the proof if need be

You need be. Documentation is how you prevail. They'll have theirs, you need to refute them. New fees may have accrued after you walked away from the property. The fact that you informed the bank has no weight. That's like calling a credit card company and informing them that you're not going to make any more payments. The charges and interest still continue to accrue. What was the ultimate disposition of the property? Sold by the bank, what? Any deficiency they can come after you for? Lots of problems here that can crop up. More info needed.

[Coltfan1972]

Pretty simple. If you can find the proof then go for it. If you can't then you can roll the dice. Five grand is not chump change or life changing but it's enough that most creditors will at least make some attempt to collect.

I pretty much pick all my fights for principal, just plain pissed off or for fun. When I pick a fight with a creditor I am fully prepared to fight it out for three years through the court system or three minutes, whatever it takes.

So depends on your mindset. If you're looking to send a letter and then if that does not work just throw your hands up, fair enough. Nothing really wrong with that. However, are you prepared for the letter to not work and then the process server show up because they just sued you.

People trying to clean up their credit report raise huge red flags for creditors. Generally speaking, people don't just wake up and say I don't need a new job, car, home, loan etc... but today sounds like a good day to take on the daunting task of trying to clean up six-hundred and forty-six negative items on my report.

There is a reason, usually, someone wants their report cleaned up. Creditors know that and then come hard after you.

Of course it does sometimes backfire on them. Honestly, there is a very small, and some would say mentally disturbed group, that just get a kick out of fighting and will fight them for pure sport. They run into one of those people and it can go nightmare on them in record time. Have no idea where a group of those people would hang for you to ask them about it.

Basically what you are asking is if you should pick a fight with them. Nobody can answer that question but you. I would and pick it with everyone of their friends, family and anybody that even claimed to even know them or do business with them. However, I'm reckless, too cocky to even allow the word lose in my vocabulary and honestly fight with a nothing to lose mentality and don't give a damn.

[BrunoTheJDBkiller]

Did you have an attorney for the foreclosure?

[kutuzov]

Of course it does sometimes backfire on them. Honestly, there is a very small, and some would say mentally disturbed group, that just get a kick out of fighting and will fight them for pure sport. They run into one of those people and it can go nightmare on them in record time. Have no idea where a group of those people would hang for you to ask them about it.

Not sure LOL

[Goombah]

Thanks everyone for your intelligent and insightful replies. So I have dug a little deeper and this is where I stand:

1. The bank foreclosed about six months after I vacated. No I did not have a lawyer since someone asked. Fortunately the land court in my state has online records so I'm gonna pull them all tonight to get a better look since the bank provided me with diddly.

2. After a closer look at my credit report, this listing is from a collection agency, not the condo association attorney.

3. I'm assuming that this figure is for association fees which accumulated before the bank foreclosed. I payed everything up until the day I moved out and have copies of all my cancelled checks.

4. I found a condominium rider in my mortgage documents which states:

Remedies. If Borrower does not pay condominium dues and assessments when due, then Lender may pay them. Any amounts disbursed by lender under this paragraph shall become additional debt of Borrower secured by the Security Instrument. Unless Borrower and Lender agree to other terms of payment, these amounts shall bear interest from the date of disbursement at the Note rate and shall be payable, with interest, upon notice from Lender to Borrower requesting payment.

Ok, maybe I'm a total dolt, but doesn't this sound like my bank was supposed to pay the condo fees if I didn't in which case the condo association should be pursuing the bank and not myself? Not that this relieves me from the debt entirely - but the bank can lump the debt in with the rest of what I owe them instead of me taking a second hit on my CR from a collection agency.

Do you think I can dispute the debt with the collection agency based on my rider? Thanks for any additional thought you might have.

[Coltfan1972]

But the bank can lump the debt in with the rest of what I owe them instead of me taking a second hit on my CR from a collection agency.

Right, they can, not they shall (this is the law and one word changes everything). They obviously are not real interested in looking out for your credit report. I mean can you blame them? They want their money and they figure the more damage they do the more leverage they have in getting you to pay.

"Shall become additional debt of Borrower secured by the Security Instrument."

Not merged into the debt already secured by the Security Instrument, but "additional" debt secured by the same security.

They farmed this out to a collection agency to collect on the additional debt. They had the option of merging or tacking it on to the original debt, but they did not choose that option. They chose to make it an additional, stand alone, seperate debt but still secured by the Security Instrument, almost like a second mortgage on a home, two loans secured by the same collateral but still seperate loans.

While I have no idea if they really thought this out in an effort to do as much damage to you as possible, however, it's irrelevant either way. Per the agreement, whatever their motive, they acted legally according to the contract.

[Goombah]

Coltfan1972, anyone ever accuse you of being a party-pooper? Just when I thought I was going to get a little sleep for a change. Ugg. Well I guess they mean it when they say "truth hurts." Anyway, thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge as painful as it may be. Probably should consider negotiating a deal then - Rats!

[KentWA]

Hi everyone. I'm new to all this and feeling totally overwhelmed. The long and short of it: I've pulled my credit report and have all manner of problems to contend with (judgements, collections, foreclosure, et al), but one listing in particular has me reeling. I'm freeking po'd but have no idea how to deal with this.

You did not say when this all occurred, but realize that the Statute of limitations is running and will run out at some point. Like Coltfan said you need to pick your fights wisely. You may want to start out with the little things first if they are not hotly pursuing you on the condo fees. It not like they will be able to foreclose on you for the fees.

I have only pursued litigation against 2 companies at one time on one occasion. In that case I had elected to us an attorney in one case for a myriad of reason after researching one companies defense tactics in other cases.

There may be some behind the scenes stuff that the CA will not know about that you can do (i.e. make sure the land records are properly updated with the county, get records of the foreclosure in order, etc.). This will prevent you from prematurely stirring up a hornets nest you are not ready to stir. If done right, credit repair is a game to strategy and tactics.

[Coltfan1972]

Coltfan1972, anyone ever accuse you of being a party-pooper? !

Oh all the time. Collectors hate me when I ruin their party, which I do often.

Can't tell people what they want to hear, have to tell them the truth. The other side, as much as we call them dumb, is going to have arguments to support their position.

Nothing better going to court than when you have every possible angle covered and the other side simply has lost before the judge has taken the bench. Nothing worse than trying a bluff or getting blindsided because you only analyzed your arguments in the light most favorable to yourself.

That's what is great about this board. We can take some of the personal emotion out of it and look at it from how the other side will argue. Trust me, when you walk into court and have won before the trial even starts, it makes up for all the times where you have to back down and adjust your strategy.

Nothing better than standing out in the hall a few minutes before court starts and telling the atty for the other side, "why in the world would I want to settle when I'm getting ready to win and you can't stop me" and seeing this look on their face :shock: and then walking in and just putting on a pro se clinic on how to demolish the other side.

Somebody might not take the advice, but myself and others are not going to send you into court with a "go get em, you'll be fine" only to get embarrassed and destroy your will to fight when you might have a more solid case or argument.

I (we) simply don't lose, but it's also because we know our case and the other sides case better than anybody and the outcome has already been decided and we just need the judge to take the bench to make it official. That comes off as arrogant, because it is. However, call it whatever you want, but it's just a fact.

[BrunoTheJDBkiller]

Any amounts disbursed by lender under this paragraph shall become additional debt of Borrower

They pay the fees then sue you to get their money back.

The bank foreclosed about six months after I vacated

This does not release you from liability. The condo fees continued from the day you stopped paying them until the day the property was sold by the bank.

At this point, we don't know who's going to sue you, the bank or the association. You should ask for DV, they will have to provide you with the name of the creditor. There are different strategies for every type of creditor. Maybe you'll get lucky and they sold this off. Banks don't usually wait three years to sue, JDBs do because they can't get that kind of interest on their money anyplace else.