JDB owns my debt. how to pay it off before lawsuit?

[huntergreen]

Hi Everyone,

wanted to tap into all the brainpower on these forums - the info i've read so far has been SUPER helpful.

I have three charged-off credit-card accounts that are now owned by Junk-Debt-Buyers. From what i can tell after talking to the Original Creditors, the folks who own my accounts are the first JDBs to buy them (as opposed to being the second or third round buyers) so I am reasonably certain that they do own the accounts...unless they have recently sold them.

I finally have some money put together and can start paying these off. My primary goal is to avoid being sued by these JDBs or any other future ones. I have heard horror stories about people being sued for the "remaining balance" even after agreeing to a settlement, so i'm willing to pay off the balances in full to avoid that possibility.

Based on what i've read about these JDBs online, they are VERY lawsuit happy. I would like to avoid the hassle and expense of defending lawsuits and paying judgements.

What approach do you recommend for paying these off? I was thinking that I would call each of the JDB's and say "i just noticed your collection on my credit report - what is this? can you send me a detailed account statement?" and then when the account balance arrives, pay it off it full with a cashiers check sent certified mail.

I have heard of JDBs immediately suing after receiving a Debt Verification/Validation letter, so i am leery of doing that as my opening communication. Also, i've heard that JDBs commonly resell accounts that have been paid off...how do i protect myself from that? Also, what if they have already sold the accounts but are still reporting them on my credit reports - did i just throw away the $$ i sent?

I feel like an idiot asking "how do i pay my bills", since it should be so straight-forward, but after everything i've read I feel like I need to ask you experts! Thanks in advance everyone!

[Coltfan1972]

I have three charged-off credit-card accounts that are now owned by Junk-Debt-Buyers.

You have three charged-off credit-card accounts that are allegedly owned by Junk-Debt-Buyers.

From what i can tell after talking to the Original Creditors, the folks who own my accounts are the first JDBs to buy them (as opposed to being the second or third round buyers) so I am reasonably certain that they do own the accounts

...unless they have recently sold them.

Read those two statements you just made again. See how they contradict each other. That's a HUGE "unless" you just threw out there (and on a side not a huge issue you correctly picked up on).

I finally have some money put together and can start paying these off. My primary goal is to avoid being sued by these JDBs or any other future ones. I have heard horror stories about people being sued for the "remaining balance" even after agreeing to a settlement, so i'm willing to pay off the balances in full to avoid that possibility.

Trust me, you're going to have zero problems dealing with these junk debt buyers. As soon as they hear "pay off the balance in full" you're going to be treated like a king. You won't be coming back in here talking about how you were talked down to or yelled at, I can promise you that for sure !!

Based on what i've read about these JDBs online, they are VERY lawsuit happy. I would like to avoid the hassle and expense of defending lawsuits and paying judgements.

Paying them in full will solve that problem for sure. You tell them they will have the payment within 30 days and not even the worst of the worst are going to file against you unless they are against the statute of limitations.

Even Midland, NCO, LVNV and Allied will give you time before they sue if they think they are getting paid in full at 100%. Trust me, you have nothing to worry about.

What approach do you recommend for paying these off?

Have them send you a letter stating the full amount due on or before a certain date, which if you pay in full will be payment at 100% and full and final settlement of all claims and demands. Have them figure the interest through a certain day and put it in writing. They will be more than happy to do that for you, no worries at all.

I was thinking that I would call each of the JDB's and say "i just noticed your collection on my credit report - what is this? can you send me a detailed account statement?" and then when the account balance arrives, pay it off it full with a cashiers check sent certified mail.

Oh that will work. You will make somebody an employee of the month or quarter, maybe even year, depending on how much money we are talking. That's about as much of a dream scenerio for a JDB as there is. I guess just paying it without an account statement would be a tad above, however, them coming up with a detailed account statement won't take them two minutes to generate for you, if they are getting ready to be paid off in full.

I have heard of JDBs immediately suing after receiving a Debt Verification/Validation letter, so i am leery of doing that as my opening communication.

Well then don't. You are not going to run into problems if you are getting ready to cut them a check.

Also, i've heard that JDBs commonly resell accounts that have been paid off.

Happens all the time.

How do i protect myself from that?

You can't. You don't work for the JDB. You can't make them not violate your rights or the law. You will just get the most and best documentation you can. You will have them send you a letter on their letterhead and lay out the terms. However, the terms are pretty dang simple. They are saying pay this amount and you are saying okay. That's pretty much a dream scenerio.

The problem is if the JDB does not own the account, all the letters and settlement agreements are worthless. If they scam you and then somebody else comes along and can prove they legally own your account and did so when you were settling with the first junk debt buyer? Your problem is with the first junk debt buyer. You can't tell the second buyer tuff, I got scammed. They won't care, they will want their money. They will tell you to pay them and then get your money back by suing the first JDB.

Also, what if they have already sold the accounts but are still reporting them on my credit reports - did i just throw away the $$ i sent?

Yes, you would have been scammed. However, let's assume you don't get scammed. They can still report on your credit. It will just be reported as paid off charged off account or some other similar notation. It will show a paid account but the JDB negative mark can remain for seven years from the date of default (not date they got the account, but date of default).

I feel like an idiot asking "how do i pay my bills"

I think down the road after you research and learn more, or get scammed (Which I really, really hope you don't, I really mean that!!!) on this deal, you will probably have that feeling but not because you asked how do I pay my bills.

[TomnTex]

Why don't you just elect arbitration with jams and beat them at their own game? Why not fight them and win, that way you won't have to pay them a dime. One you give them a partial payment that will restart the SOL. You do know what the SOL is and that it's only four years here in TX? Also, we have more laws to fight the JDB here to help you win.

There are many ways around this if you want to fight, you will need to get on here and read a lot, and do your research. Many have done it and won. Study up on ARB. You stand a good chance of getting scammed like Colt said. Then too, you may face the 1099-C after you give into the JDB's. Then you have a fight with the IRS.

Lots to consider here, I would stop, calm down and do some research before I paid them a dime or agreed to.

[huntergreen]

you guys are the best, thanks for taking the time to respond.

question for Colt - you hit on the exact issue that i'm worried about - paying off the JDB and then later being pursued by another one with a legitimate (or rather "legitimate") claim for the same debt.

Is there any way to gain some certainly that the JDB i'm paying is the correct one? If i read between the lines of your statement - are you saying I should give the JDBs the finger until they come and sue me in court?

Logically I would say that if they can "validate" the debt in a response to a DV letter then i should pay them, but based on everything i've seen on these boards, the validation responses and abilities of the JDBs are basically toilet-paper-equivalents.

Again - and I know you both are the resident experts here - I am trying to avoid court/legal fees/filing fees, etc. Am i basically forced to choose between letting the threat of a lawsuit/expenses hang over me vs running the risk of paying a scammer JDB?

Besides the JDB already having sold the debt (hard/impossible for me to know), or reselling it after I pay them - what other scams could I be setting myself up for by paying now?

Also - good catch on the reporting on my CRA - I would request in writing that they delete the tradeline.

thanks again!!

Edited August 27, 2012 by huntergreen

[Coltfan1972]

you guys are the best.

Can't dispute that.

question for Colt - you hit on the exact issue that i'm worried about - paying off the JDB and then later being pursued by another one with a legitimate (or rather "legitimate") claim for the same debt.

Yeah, it's a risk you take for sure. All the sudden you've got people you've never heard of wanting you to pay them. It's a little different than just out of the blue type scam where somebody calls you about an account you've never had. Not everybody gets scammed, but enough do that it's a very legit concern. Collectors would have you believe it happens once in a blue moon, like any industry has it's bad apples. However, all you have to do is use Google to know that is not the case.

Is there any way to gain some certainly that the JDB i'm paying is the correct one?

No. The only thing certain about a junk debt buyer is if given the opportunity they will screw you over to high heaven.

If i read between the lines of your statement - are you saying I should give the JDBs the finger until they come and sue me in court?

100% yes to the give them the finger.

And somewhat on the until they come and sue me in court. Yes, to the see you in court part. However, I prefer to be the Plaintiff suing them. But it does appear you have no interest in that, which is fine and tons of people don't have that desire. You are actually way in the majority.

You just want this to go away and like anything in life, the best way to solve a problem is to throw enough money at it. Generally speaking, you can throw enough money at just about any problem and make it go away.

Logically I would say that if they can "validate" the debt in a response to a DV letter then i should pay them

No, that is not logical. I could validate that debt if you told me the alleged creditor and the alleged amount due. I'd have that thing validated in about two minutes, and that includes a coffee and bathroom break.

But based on everything i've seen on these boards, the validation responses and abilities of the JDBs are basically toilet-paper-equivalents.

Pretty much because a junk debt buyer does not have to validate their standing in response to a DV letter, so yes, the responses are pretty much garbage. However, generally speaking, it's federal appeals court approved garbage. So of course that is going to trump just about anything we would demand.

Again - and I know you both are the resident experts here -

True, and not lacking in the confidence department at all.

I am trying to avoid court/legal fees/filing fees, etc. Am i basically forced to choose between letting the threat of a lawsuit/expenses hang over me vs running the risk of paying a scammer JDB?

Pretty much. Look, I'll be totally honest. You are not guaranteed to get scammed. This is not some Nigerian million dollars in a truck type scam where you have a 100% chance of being scammed.

If the charge off is fresh and you contact them immediately and they have not had the account for but a short period of time, and they are the first alleged JDB, you stand a decent chance if you pay 100% of this all going away.

It's just a risk and you have to decide what your risk tolerance is. The hanging over your head part is a legit concern and a reason many on this board go on the offense immediately. Just go out and kick their a$$ on the front end to make sure we don't have to deal with them later. A bomb them off the face of the earth just to save time later type mentality.

In other words speaking a language they can understand.

Besides the JDB already having sold the debt (hard/impossible for me to know), or reselling it after I pay them - what other scams could I be setting myself up for by paying now?

If you pay 100% and have it in writing, then not a lot if they actually have standing. If they have standing (ownership) and you are paying what they demand and that is 100% of the full balance, you're good.

They could sell it again, but if they originally had standing then you could get a consumer atty to jump all over them. In fact, it would be a dream come true.

Where you run into other problems is when working out deals for less than the full balance. That is when they will sell off the discounted amount and you deal with another JDB a few months later.

However, never sell a junk debt buyer short when it comes to scams. Where there is a will there is a way, and JDB have the will, for sure !!

Also - good catch on the reporting on my CRA - I would request in writing that they delete the tradeline.

If you're paying 100% and it's a good chunk of change you're paying, you have a decent shot at getting them to agree to that. You will just need a tight agreement. You don't want them to take it off your report for a day and then put it right back on, then say they did what was agreed, they took it off your report. In other words cover the loopholes.

[huntergreen]

thanks again. Out of curiosity, how would you go "on the offensive" and make yourself the plaintiff in this situation? Sue them for falsely reporting a debt and make them validate? (what if by some bizarre twist they actually CAN validate the debt...)

Also to address your point above - these charge offs were sold to the JDB's anywhere from 8 to 15 months ago. that was the date that the OC's stopped updating the tradeline, and the JDBs started. That length of time makes me concerned that they've already resold these accounts...even though they are still reporting. All of the JDBs have updated their tradelines in the past month.

Practical question: I have fresh credit reports (printed just this past week)...if these guys have already sold this debt on to a new JDB, wouldn't that new JDB have started reporting on its own tradeline already also?

FML, why do i get the feeling that this is going to be insanely hard to unwind.

Candid (non-lawyer) advice for me - what's the best way to put this behind me? How would you proceed?

Here are two very interesting articles on this topic (different JDB but same idea)!

Google:

American Banker: Bank of America Sold Card Debts to Collectors Despite Faulty Records

Columbia Journalism Review: What do I Owe You? Don't ask Bank of America.

Edited August 27, 2012 by huntergreen

[Coltfan1972]

Out of curiosity, how would you go "on the offensive" and make yourself the plaintiff in this situation?

Talk to them on the phone or by letter. If their mouth is moving, they are violating the law. Collectors call it baiting, I call it providing an opportunity. Just ask what will happen if you don't pay and then listen to the violations come a flying out of their mouth (recorder going naturally).

Sue them for falsely reporting a debt

That's an option, but that usually requires some setting up so you will have a cause of action. It's not all that hard but it's not a walk in the park either. Letting them talk is pretty much the easiest and guaranteed way. Plus the FDCPA is strict liability and the FCRA is not.

And make them validate? (what if by some bizarre twist they actually CAN validate the debt...)

Oh they can validate the debt. Like I said, give me two minutes and the name of the creditor and I'll have the debt validated.

Also to address your point above - these charge offs were sold to the JDB's anywhere from 8 to 15 months ago.

You mean allegedly sold to the JDB's.

That length of time makes me concerned that they've already resold these accounts...even though they are still reporting. All of the JDBs have updated their tradelines in the past month.

Who knows, these things are bought and sold more than a two dollar crack whore looking for their next fix.

Practical question: I have fresh credit reports (printed just this past week)...if these guys have already sold this debt on to a new JDB, wouldn't that new JDB have started reporting on its own tradeline already also?

Who knows, credit reporting is voluntary. I sued a JDB once and they never had even touched my credit report. Again, I'm not saying you will 100% be scammed. I'm just saying there is more of a chance for it than the very slim chance the collectors like to claim.

People pay off JDB all the time and it never back fire. However, there is risk involved, especially when they are getting in the 15 month old range.

Candid (non-lawyer) advice for me - what's the best way to put this behind me?

I'm not a lawyer, never stepped foot in a law school classroom. Just decided to fight back and learn it myself.

I can't answer your question. I don't know you. It sounds like you really want to pay this to go away. Again, tons of problems or issues are solved everyday by throwing money at the problem. Sometimes it works and sometimes it does not work.

That is the problem with JDB. You just never know. As much as I hate them, I concede that many times there is never even a hint of a problem after they are paid off. It will just really suck if you are one of the ones it does blow up on, and it really happens a lot more than the collectors lead on. However, it's just your risk tolerance in exchange for peace of mind. If you pay them and you are still a nervous wreck every time the door bell or phone rings, then what's the point.

If you will sleep better and just "cross that bridge if you have to" as far as getting scammed is concerned, then it probably is worth the peace of mind to pay them, in your case based on your posts.

How would you proceed?

I'd try to goad them into suing me, and if that did not work find a reason to sue them.

Here are two very interesting articles on this topic (different JDB but same idea)!

Google:

American Banker: Bank of America Sold Card Debts to Collectors Despite Faulty Records

Columbia Journalism Review: What do I Owe You? Don't ask Bank of America.

Yeah, nothing personal, and those links are good to have posted, but that is way old news when it comes to junk debt buyers. Without even looking at the articles I can pretty much guess about 95% of what is in them.

You might want to read this one. It was written by a law professor. Warning though. If you have pretty much made up your mind to pay them no matter what, you probably don't want to read the paper.

http://www.creditinfocenter.com/forums/there-lawyer-house/314514-look-what-i-found-defending-junk-debt-buyer-law-suits.html#post1173738

[Randall948]

.....if you are really dealing with JDBS ask yourself a couple of questions before you pony up the dinero's.

1- What will paying them gain me?- Its not going to help your credit score appreciably since it (might) be updated to paid the underlying delinquency with the OC is still there and still hurting you. Paying it off doesnt make it go

away.

2- Whats the worst that could happen if I get sued? Look into your Texas exemptions in the case of a judgment execution (hint: they are really good for a debtor). So in the case of being sued and losing what is really going to happen with your day to day life? Given that the vast majority of judgments NEVER get paid the answer is probably:not much.

Also as mentioned above check into the SOL for your particular case. Sounds like you are pretty far off but check anyway. If they know how the judgment process works in your state (they do) and they have done any research into your specific asset situation (if they get to the point of suing you they probably will know that too) then they may never sue to be honest. I personaly am about 2.5 years into my 3 year SOL for my state (similar judgment exemptions to texas with NO wage garnishment allowed) with nary a lawsuit in sight.

I recommend looking before you leap. Keep in mind as Coltfan was basically hinting at these people paid an industry average of 8% for your debt (for freshly charged off debt from the OC) and youre offering them 100% of their inflated interest and fee added amount? They will build a statue of you in their lobby.

Again, please PLEASE think and research before you give these "people" your money.

[usagi555]

Anybody remember which poster on here was being sued by one JDB and completely different JDB sent him dunning letters trying to collect on the very same account?

When JDBs are involved, bad things happen. Either to those who don't know what is going on, or to the JDB itself once the consumer catches on.

So, Coltfan, would this be your strategy in such a case:

Keep the case going long enough to goad JDB2 into suing, get the cases consolidated and file counterclaims while playing the JDBs against each other?

[Coltfan1972]

You're offering them 100% of their inflated interest and fee added amount? They will build a statue of you in their lobby.

EXACTLY !!

[kutuzov]

If you want to pay them in full, ask for them to send you proof of assaigment, as outlined in the uniform comercial code, and your state laws, give them 30 days, and send them a letter cmrr. If they don't provide you with that, then call the Original Creditor, and tell them that you wanna pay them cause the JDB didn't provide you with proof of assigment, and you can pay them acording to the law, once the OC is paid you are good to go.

YOU CAN SKIP THE JDB's and PAY the OC instead.

NEVER EVER PAY JDB, only pay the Original Creditor.

Edited August 28, 2012 by kutuzov

[Coltfan1972]

Anybody remember which poster on here was being sued by one JDB and completely different JDB sent him dunning letters trying to collect on the very same account?

When JDBs are involved, bad things happen. Either to those who don't know what is going on, or to the JDB itself once the consumer catches on.

So, Coltfan, would this be your strategy in such a case:

Keep the case going long enough to goad JDB2 into suing, get the cases consolidated and file counterclaims while playing the JDBs against each other?

Can't remember who it was but remember she was from Ohio, I think. She got an attorney to take over and stopped posting about the situation. I'm sure the attorney told her to let them handle it, which you can't blame the poster for following that advice.

"So, Coltfan, would this be your strategy in such a case."

Really I don't know or care. I just want to be in court with a JDB as much as possible. However we achieve that goal it really immaterial. I'm going to beat the dog out of them no matter what. At least if they sue me I don't have to front the court costs and wait to get them back.

As long as court and a junk debt buyer are involved, it's all good.

[Seadragon]

geesh. By that I mean offer them 35% and let them talk you up to 50%. All the while you record the calls and if they violate note it. as soon as they sue you you cross complain then get a lawyer.

In the court make them hurt to the tune of 8K then negotiate a mutual dismissal and removal from the credit reports.

you see it costs them money to defend a crosscomplaint that they have to put up front. there is no guarantee that they will win on that. also you can make an even lower initial offer. the key is to trap them into violating and negating the money.

as they say the laundry is not done till the tub stops spinning. I can almost guarantee that if you make a reasonable offer that they will have to accept it as you can show a court you were trying to work it out then they violated a bunch of laws.

So you are going to need leverage to get them to remove the tradelines which is your goal. However that money you are going to give them is better spent on buying a house. They are cheap now and banks want to restart the loans again.

Just some thoughts. if you pay 100% they are gonna jeer at you because they would accept 50%.

For the record the most they pay is 10% for the account.

[huntergreen]

question for the group - is an FCRA violation enough of a threat to make them go away? meaning - if they can't prove assignment/standing/produce a forward flow document with the alleged account number listed, etc etc...arent they violating the law by reporting that debt on my credit report?

is that enough to get started on?

[usagi555]

question for the group - is an FCRA violation enough of a threat to make them go away? meaning - if they can't prove assignment/standing/produce a forward flow document with the alleged account number listed, etc etc...arent they violating the law by reporting that debt on my credit report?

is that enough to get started on?

Nope. And you probably don't have what it takes to win on that just yet. Such things would be much easier *after* they sue and you whip their tails off, and they keep reporting. Even then, such a threat would not convince them, unless you can send a copy of the docket(s) where you have already sued other CAs/JDBs/CRAs in the past and knocked them so hard that the rocks in their head turned into dust. Most consumers saying "I'll sue" are just issuing empty threats, and they know it. It doesn't phase them.

Besides, an FCRA suit can take A LOT of resources. There is a long paper trail that you need to lay and there are a lot of hearsay issues to overcome. A consumer attorney is not going to take one on with what you have.

[Coltfan1972]

is an FCRA violation enough of a threat to make them go away?

No way. Unless you have sued before they are going to call your bluff. Even then they still might not go away. Everybody makes idol threats, and nothing personal, but they are going to know you are not going to be filing a pro-se FCRA lawsuit.

Somebody that is going to sue them is not even going to consider offering them even one cent to settle. It's just the nature of the business and the way it works. They will sniff your bluff out and it might actually back-fire on you and get you sued quicker, if you make some over the top idol threat.

Threats don't work. Lawsuits work and are the only language they understand.