machinebike

Dollars, Dollar Bills, Fed Reserve NOTE, oh my...

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Lets discuss what these variations are...any input?

My ban from this forum has been lifted 8-)

Ill try to behave.

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My ban from this forum has been lifted 8-)

That's unfortunate, but oh well. I guess it's time for more threads discussing things that have no relevance and/or won't work as defenses or claims when dealing with creditors.

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That's unfortunate, but oh well. I guess it's time for more threads discussing things that have no relevance and/or won't work as defenses or claims when dealing with creditors.

My level of understanding has increased. You should allow yours to increase as well.

Everything looks 'official' on the surface of mortgage docs, but once you go further into study, they are not what they seem. If you choose to stay on the level of understanding you are on with no desire to increase, then you may, like many others, pay for a loan that may not exist. You may be paying on your own credit all the while being led to believe you are paying back a loan.

Start with something simple. Look at a mortgage doc, do you find any loan given other than the word loan?

Edited by machinebike

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What coltfan1972 said.

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Yeah Irwin Schiff had the philosophy as you. How did that work out for him.

I do not Know that individual.

Please Define philosophy. If you refer to what I am sharing...buy yourself a legal dictionary, study the mort-gage docs for yourself. Go to a 'bank" ask questions, write letters to your servicer asking questions...and then see what answers you recieve.

If these mortgage docs were legitimate, it would have specific details of what exactly the loan was. And the employees working for the servicer banks/lenders would be able to give detailed answers, but that has not happened for me.

So give it a try...Ill ask, what value was given that can be refered as a loan? I see written "for a loan recieved, you promise to pay..."

My question is, again,what was the loan recieved?

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The problem with wanting to debate this is that even if we assume you are hands down 100% right, which I don't concede but for the sake of argument assume you are, every court in America (that counts as in a final adjudication after all appeals) says you're wrong.

This topic or variations of it has been discussed in detail on this board many times. I'd use the search function because I don't think you are going to get your wish and have somebody come in and debate you on this. Nobody cares if you're right because it won't win in court so what's the point.

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It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. Sound familiar? So tell me where are you going here? What are you trying to accomplish? Are you having mortgage problems and trying to get out of them? What is the deal? Every time someone says anything your all smart allecky trying to sound all educated when in reality you just sound like an a$$ hole. Take your diatribe somewhere else.

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It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. Sound familiar? So tell me where are you going here? What are you trying to accomplish? Are you having mortgage problems and trying to get out of them? What is the deal? Every time someone says anything your all smart allecky trying to sound all educated when in reality you just sound like an a$$ hole. Take your diatribe somewhere else.

My apology if my words sound smart alicky. I try to find the right words to avoid that.

My objective is to learn about the foundation we rely on concerning financial stuff. Not just the surface but the actual foundation itself. When I learn and feel what Ive learned should be shared with others, then thats my duty...to share. If we knew the origin or how the actual mechanics of something operated and not just the operation itself, we gain the ability to repair (or at least try to repair) without relying on others to fix it for us.

I began by helping my mother with bankruptcy, then I started taking a closer look at her mortgage documents, bought a legal dictionary and read things that were not 'adding up'. Its like the saying "the more I learn the less I understood".

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And again, what you're trying to teach us or debate has been well settled in the courts. You're arguing the time honored losing argument that the banks loan imaginary money and nothing of value so there is nothing to default on.

Search the forum and posts using the search feature and you will see you are not coming up with anything that has not been discussed before. A couple of months ago had a guy from Texas start a very long thread with how he was going to beat Cap One with his you didn't loan me anything arguments. I'll give him credit, unlike most, he did come back to report that he lost.

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Have you read "The Creature from Jekyll Island" yet?

Uh, there's somthing wrong with "The Creature from Jekyll Island"? I haven't read it, although I've always meant to.

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The problem with wanting to debate this is that even if we assume you are hands down 100% right, which I don't concede but for the sake of argument assume you are, every court in America (that counts as in a final adjudication after all appeals) says you're wrong.

This topic or variations of it has been discussed in detail on this board many times. I'd use the search function because I don't think you are going to get your wish and have somebody come in and debate you on this. Nobody cares if you're right because it won't win in court so what's the point.

This isnt about debate nor taking it to court. If we really understood what we agree to, chances are, we would not give permission and the legal system may need to reexamine its legal codes. Something may become "legal" if its not 'lawful'. Legal refers to pen/paper while lawful refers to the living. Living beings have been subjected to legal "codes" that works on paper but when applied to the living, creates a burden difficult to bear. The objective is to learn how we are taken advantage of and then let the ones taking advantage know that we know.It may lay on their conscience enough to to change it without judges involved.

Like a wuote from the bible:

"just as a thief, only feels guilt when caught".

We haven't been paying attention to the foundation we are building on. We have too many distractions.

Beergoggles, Tye creature and jekyl island I read about a while ago. something to do with fed reserve being created in secret.

Edited by machinebike

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This isnt about debate nor taking it to court.

Then what is it? This is a message board where advice, debate, and strategy is given and received.

If you're just venting then fine, vent away. If you are trying to educate then I guess go for it and rant away. If you're not trying to debate or discuss court strategy then I guess I don't get the point of your posts. However, I never have so I guess why should I start now. Rant away, but from now on you'll be talking to yourself.

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Then what is it? This is a message board where advice, debate, and strategy is given and received.

If you're just venting then fine, vent away. If you are trying to educate then I guess go for it and rant away. If you're not trying to debate or discuss court strategy then I guess I don't get the point of your posts. However, I never have so I guess why should I start now. Rant away, but from now on you'll be talking to yourself.

Coltfan, debating works but thats not my main reason for posting. Im just sharing what Ive learned. The reader can ignore or investigate for themselves. If the reader investigates and picks up something, then Id hope they would come back and share it as well. Its a good way to learn.

Lets debate a little on the topic...

What do you know a bout a dollar, dollar bill, Federal Reserve note, debt currency, fiat currency? Or in short, the paper used to make mortgage payments.

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Lets debate a little on the topic...

What do you know a bout a dollar, dollar bill, Federal Reserve note, debt currency, fiat currency? Or in short, the paper used to make mortgage payments.

I know that if I stick enough of them in a strippers G string she will shake her a$$ for me a little hard and a little longer and then give me a hug and say thanks so much sweetie, and generally speaking she smells really good and has really soft skin when she says that and hugs me.

That's really all I care about to be honest with you, so as long as the strippers consider it legal tender, I'm good with the system.

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...and then give me a hug and say thanks so much sweetie, and generally speaking she smells really good and has really soft skin when she says that and hugs me.

And if you are (un)lucky, she leaves glitter on your shirt, then you have to go back to work...

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My understanding is 1933 gold was removed from circulation. And around early 70's silver was removed from circulation. That means the 'money' was removed indicating a bankrupt nation. Since they removed the money (the real money gold/silver) they also discontinued using the currency that was once used to redeem the real money.

The pieces of paper we carry, in the olden days, was not the money, they were the promise to pay the money....or "Note" as a reminder to pay.

People were leaving their gold and silver deposited at a bank and for proof, they were given the dollar bill currency as "reciepts" to prove they owned the real money when they went to the bank.

Other words, it was more convenient to carry the paper dollar bill instead of gold/silver coins. But the paper dollar bill is NOT the dollar, it is the BILL.

a BILL because of the "convenience fee" charge.

Sooo.... the more people found it easier to carry around the paper and leave their gold and silver in the bank, people started swapping the paper instead. The paper dollar BILL could be taken to the bank and redeemed with gold or silver minted coins. The silver was the DOLLAR and the paper reciept we know as the dollar BILL is...just the bill, not the dollar.

So the real money was removed from the treasury/banks, then when people took their "money receipts" (or dollar bills) to redeem them for their real money (gold/silver minted coins)....there was none. And what did that leave the people to do? Just keep using the paper to by goods but with no way to redeem that paper for the real money.

This means they had no true way of buying anything. All they had was debt/bills to buy goods and so the cycle of debt/bills to buy goods still exists up to our time. This is one reason why you can read or hear about the trillions of dollars in debt.This means everytime we think we are buying something with paper or dollar BILLS, we are only purchasing with no true/real way to buy it. EVERYTHING you buy and every house payment you make is being done with the paper dollar BILLS not the real dollars. So this may mean we truly do not own anything. And making matters more complicated....no more gold/silver in circulation, then no more "constitutional" currency either.

I understand the paper dollar bill currency filters through Britain, Queen of England, or the private-for profit Reserve system being called Federal reserve system.

So we no longer have real money and we no longer have real currency that was used to redeem the real money from a real bank.

We have fiat currency issued from a foreign nation. It has no value.

What may happen if we purchase goods using a foreign nations valueless fiat currency that may have a 'Hidden Lien'?

Learning more about the currency sold (convenience/usage fees)to us to use as our medium of exchange, could be helpful info.

This is my understanding up to this point and dont want to claim 100% accuracy, so go research then come on back to share what you understand. :shock:

Edited by machinebike

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So give it a try...Ill ask, what value was given that can be refered as a loan? I see written "for a loan recieved, you promise to pay..."

My question is, again,what was the loan recieved?

What value was given? You received a loan to purchase something of value...a home.

The objective is to learn how we are taken advantage of and then let the ones taking advantage know that we know.It may lay on their conscience enough to to change it without judges involved.

If you have been living in the home, but now you're claiming you don't have to pay for it based upon technicalities, illegal tender or whatever argument you're attempting to put forth, you're the one taking advantage.

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What value was given? You received a loan to purchase something of value...a home.

BV, a depressing part of a document using the word 'loan' is....there was no loan, it was the homeowners credit that was used to make the 'purchase'. Purchase does not indicate house was bouught, just paper work/title temporarily transfered to the buyer until the buyer works and creates the value for the payments required to buy the house.

If you look at a 'truth in lending statement', you may read about the homeowners credit changed into dollars. But the dollars are the silver minted coins. Chances are, the home buyers credit was changed over to the dollar BILLS, not the dollars. Just another play on words to try and convince us money was involved in the transaction. Dollar bills is the currency that was suppose be redeemed for the silver, but silver was removed from circulation and unlikely silver came across the hands of the homebuyer. This is how you can know the house was not paid for but only purchased. You would need the real money to buy the house, not the dollar BILLS. By changing the homeowners credit over to the dollar bill currency, not only gives an APPEARANCE of a loan, but also enables the private -pprofit reserve agency (somewhere in britain) to unnecesarily charge the homebuyer "usage fees" on the currency. It would have been just as well keeping the homebuyers credit as credit without the change over to currency. The homebuyer is being charged for using their own credit by the usage fees attached to the currency.

If you have been living in the home, but now you're claiming you don't have to pay for it based upon technicalities, illegal tender or whatever argument you're attempting to put forth, you're the one taking advantage.

The house is payed for when the homebuyer works to create the value to make the payments on the credit obtained for the purchase of the house. After homebuyer makes payments up to original cost of house, the house is payed for and the rest is payments/deposits going towards the credit the homebuyer unknowingly gave to the servicer bank because they thought they recieved a loan. There was no loan because the real money needed to be considered a loan (gold/silver) has been taken out of circulation. When we refer to the Dollar BILLS as 'Dollars" or "money" we make it difficult to see we are dealing with the dollar BILLS, not the Dollars or money.

To try to simplify, when homebuyer gives a 'promise to pay', they agree to labor to create the value needed for the credit they obtained. So if 100,000.00 credits is needed to PURCHASE a house but the homeowner agrees to 3 or 4 times more (instead of 100,000... 400,000), the servicer bank takes the 100,000 credits to PURCHASE the house and keeps the remaining 300,000 credits for themselves. They spend those credits all at once while the homeowner is stuck working for years to create the value and make the payments. The home buyer is paying for the credit kept by the servicer bank. When you hear and see "bankers" making millions and millions more in bonuses, most likely because they are taking the homebuyer's credit and turning it into the dollar bill currency then spend it. But what they spend does not have value until the home buyer works to create its value through time and labor, then makes payments.

If a "banker" tries to convince you a loan is the same as credit, it is NOT, here is why:

*With a loan, the value comes from what was given as a loan.

*But with credit, the value comes from time and labor, not the credit.

Edited by machinebike

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Money has never had any value, it isn't supposed to. Take a truckload of C Notes to an empty island and see what you can buy with it. You misunderstand the purpose of currency. It is a medium of exchange where men (and those women Coltfan mentioned) can freely trade goods and services in a free market. It is the goods and services that have the value, not the currency. The main function of currency is to replace an impossible, unworkable barter system. Coltfan would not do so well if he had to put a bag of oranges in the young lady's G string.

Richard Nixon took us off the gold standard, not FDR. You cannot return to it, because there is not enough gold. All the gold ever produced only equals about one third of the average yearly GDP, and we don't have all the gold ever produced. Gold is not money, it is a commodity. People get confused because we used to make gold coins. Don't you find it odd that the value of gold is measured in dollars?

Most of our money doesn't even exist, it is electronic. You could never print that much money, there isn't enough paper. It isn't necessary, anyway.

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So say I wanted to open a strip club and have 1stStep as my bartender and D.J. and BeerGoogles as my bouncer. Naturally I'll be doing the hiring and evaluating the talent.

I don't have $500,000 laying around, but when I get my girls on the stage shaking their thing I know the money will roll in because the customers will be "making it rain" with George Washington's up in that place.

I'll have 1stStep on the mike yelling "Okay guy's get out your credits because here comes raspy Rebecca" and hitting the music and bringing out raspy to She's A Private Dancer by Tina Turner, and Beer will be guarding the credits being thrown on the stage from the time they hit the stage until safely tucked into G strings.

Where do I go for my strip (or as Pac-Man Jones would say, Script Club) club money. Obviously no bank will loan me the money because after I pay back the original 500K I'm going to screw them using your theory, so how do I get somebody to give me 500K where I only give them back 500K?

So help me understand where anybody is going to get money or "credits" to buy anything. Only a fool would loan somebody money or "credits" only to get back the original loan, or under your theory is it even called a loan.

On a side note, can't we get a sticky that addresses this argument that pops up about once a month around here.

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Money has never had any value, it isn't supposed to. Take a truckload of C Notes to an empty island and see what you can buy with it. You misunderstand the purpose of currency. It is a medium of exchange where men (and those women Coltfan mentioned) can freely trade goods and services in a free market. It is the goods and services that have the value, not the currency. The main function of currency is to replace an impossible, unworkable barter system. Coltfan would not do so well if he had to put a bag of oranges in the young lady's G string.

Richard Nixon took us off the gold standard, not FDR. You cannot return to it, because there is not enough gold. All the gold ever produced only equals about one third of the average yearly GDP, and we don't have all the gold ever produced. Gold is not money, it is a commodity. People get confused because we used to make gold coins. Don't you find it odd that the value of gold is measured in dollars?

Most of our money doesn't even exist, it is electronic. You could never print that much money, there isn't enough paper. It isn't necessary, anyway.

It is a medium of exchange that needs our labor to back the exchange.

This is why credit is not a loan. The vaalue is not coming before purchasing the house, its coming after. People are led to believe that currency is stored with value already, waiting to be borrowed, but thats not correct. They are created/printed when you give a "promise to pay".

I view them as reciepts given to us for our labor. We work, then we are given these reciepts as proof of our work, then use them to make a purchase.

What the servicer banks are doing is having you agree to have these receipts for your work printed in advance. They have these receipts/currency printed "out of thin air" without yet being backed by you through your time and labor.

They can spend a whole bunch of these receipts printed out of thin air becuause your signature is their gaurantee your promise to work over the years to create the value for what they spend in adavnce.

Whover agrees to this and signs through a mortgage, becomes an asset/security to these individuals.

What servicer banks are not disclosing to the homebuyer is the homebuyers promise to pay with signature becomes a financial/negotiable instrument that "they" can put on the stock market and sell.

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