Dollars, Dollar Bills, Fed Reserve NOTE, oh my...

[Coltfan1972]

Care to answer my question on how one makes home and business purchases then? I'm sure you have no answer because you know except for the very elite 1% nobody can afford to do all the work on the front end to buy the business. They get the loan and then hopefully turn a profit with the business to pay back the loan. We get these arguments here all the time but they are the same old same old and everybody wants to tell us how money is not really money and all this thin air stuff, but nobody will tell us where we are then going to get home and business loans, just like you can't.

[Coltfan1972]

What servicer banks are not disclosing to the homebuyer is the homebuyers promise to pay with signature becomes a financial/negotiable instrument that "they" can put on the stock market and sell.

It's called welcome to America where people can try to make as much money as they want. In case you've not heard, a ton of people go bankrupt all the time investing in the stock market just as a ton of people get rich.

[BV80]

The house is payed for when the homebuyer works to create the value to make the payments on the credit obtained for the purchase of the house. After homebuyer makes payments up to original cost of house, the house is payed for and the rest is payments/deposits going towards the credit the homebuyer unknowingly gave to the servicer bank because they thought they recieved a loan. There was no loan because the real money needed to be considered a loan (gold/silver) has been taken out of circulation. When we refer to the Dollar BILLS as 'Dollars" or "money" we make it difficult to see we are dealing with the dollar BILLS, not the Dollars or money.

You know, in this case it really doesn't matter that gold and silver has been taken out of circulation. The homeowner received something of value and the bank deserves to make a profit.

Besides, I don't believe you're really concerned about Dollar Bills or what is or is not in circulation. It sounds like you want to get out of paying a mortgage.

More than likely, when you bought the house, these "theories" didn't cross your mind. You knew full well that the bank was going to make a profit, and you were fine with it. I'm wondering if it was when you decided you no longer wanted to pay that you started researching this topic.

If you don't have a mortgage, and you just want to discuss or debate the subject, fine.

If you're having financial difficulties and can't pay your mortgage, I sympathize and feel badly for you. However, it's ridiculous to try to convince a bank, a judge, or anyone else that because gold and silver is out of circulation, you didn't really get a loan and don't owe anything. You do owe and the banks do deserve to make a profit. It's called business.

Based upon your theory, mortgages, car loans, and even credit cards should be illegal. Anyone who believes as you do shouldn't even use a credit card. If they do, they're a hypocrite.

[BrunoTheJDBkiller]

They have these receipts/currency printed "out of thin air" without yet being backed by you through your time and labor.

Entirely true, it is called the Constitution, which gives the government (and only the government) the authority to print money and regulate the currency. If you want to opt out, you are free to do so. You can ask your employer to pay you in peaches, corn flakes, blue jeans, or whatever you choose. If he agrees, you can then offer these products to the phone company, etc. and see if they'll take them. You are under no obligation to use the currency system. That of course leaves you out in the wind with nobody who will deal with you. It's called fiat currency, it has no value in and of itself other than the fact that it is controlled and regulated by authority. It has to be printed in advance, otherwise it wouldn't exist. What if everyone could print their own money? How trustworthy would it be?

Money is only devalued when it is given scott free to people who did nothing to earn it and wouldn't even if they could. That's why our economy is headed for a cliff at about 100 mph. The non productive outnumber the productive, and they can vote. I suggest you read some of Ayn Rand's books on capitalism.

[Beergoggles]

It does not matter what anyone says the OP will continue his rants or whatever. It will be endless. We could all agree with the OP and it will still go on. I for one am done reading this thread as the rest of you should boycott it as well. Have a great day oh, and a Beer!

[saytar]

In the immortal words of the Govenator

"Hasta la vista, baby"

“I’ll won't be back”

[Coltfan1972]

It does not matter what anyone says the OP will continue his rants or whatever. It will be endless. We could all agree with the OP and it will still go on. I for one am done reading this thread as the rest of you should boycott it as well. Have a great day oh, and a Beer!

Good idea Beer, I'm outta here also.

[machinebike]

They have these receipts/currency printed "out of thin air" without yet being backed by you through your time and labor.

Entirely true, it is called the Constitution, which gives the government (and only the government) the authority to print money and regulate the currency. If you want to opt out, you are free to do so. You can ask your employer to pay you in peaches, corn flakes, blue jeans, or whatever you choose. If he agrees, you can then offer these products to the phone company, etc. and see if they'll take them. You are under no obligation to use the currency system. That of course leaves you out in the wind with nobody who will deal with you. It's called fiat currency, it has no value in and of itself other than the fact that it is controlled and regulated by authority. It has to be printed in advance, otherwise it wouldn't exist. What if everyone could print their own money? How trustworthy would it be?

Money is only devalued when it is given scott free to people who did nothing to earn it and wouldn't even if they could. That's why our economy is headed for a cliff at about 100 mph. The non productive outnumber the productive, and they can vote. I suggest you read some of Ayn Rand's books on capitalism.

Gold and silver is considered money because they both have self contained non man-made value. Water could be rerfered as money because of self contained value. The dollar bills were refered as money ONLY because they could be used to carry in place of money and could be redeemed at any time banks were opened. People got in the habit of carrying the paper instead of the real stuff, but the real stuff was taken out of circulation, now the paper representing the real stuff could no longer be traded in at the bank. Today, we can no longer recieve the real stuff for a loan. Its all based on credit and debt NOT money. Printing out a bunch of paper notes and giving them to someone before they work to create their value, is not a loan. The servicer bank does not lose anything of value that needs to be payed back with interest. Since the gold and silver is not there to give these paper notes their value, we are the ones who give the value through our time and labor. With credit and notes, the value does not come before the house is purchased, it comes after....when the homebuyer works and adds value to the currency.

The "interest" on the mortgage document leads the homebuyer to believe they are paying interest on a loan. But the interest is the charge that is placed on using the currency, also known as usage or conveinence fees. Our time and labor gives the currency its value not gold and silver but we are still charged for using the currency. If your credit was transfered to the home seller through a computer, it would have been cheaper. But because they take your credit and change it over to the dollar bill currency, they can now charge usage fees for the currency. The 12 reserve institutions we know as banks, are not from this country. They branched out from a private profit company over in Britian that now controls our currency. The Federal reserve is NOT part of the Federal government. It uses the name 'federal' which causes us to believe its part of the Federal Government. This is why the Fed reserve is NOT regulated because its not part of this country. These reserve institutions are established in this country for profit, NOT to give loans. They make profits off of our credit....which is valued with our time and labor. This was one of the benefits living in this country, we could purchase goods with our credit and then work to pay for the goods. Regardless if your credit is turned into fed reserve notes or if your credit was just numbers in a computer, they still need you to give the value through time and labor. Like I mentioned before, turning someones credit into the notes, or "monetizing" someones credit does NOT give it value to be considered a "loan" because it still needs the value added.

You mentioned the constitution and printing money....Congress has authority to COIN money, not print money. Money cannot be printed only the BILLS that were used to be redeemed for the money. Read the constitution to see if valueless fiat currency was allowed to be used and be refered as "money".

Edited October 16, 2012 by machinebike

[machinebike]

Another more simple way to see it... our credit is turned into paper and that creates BILLS. then they charge us for the paper (dollar BILLS).

So when they change our credit into the dollar BILL currency, they force us to pay a fee on each one of these bills. They use our credit to create bills NOT money.

So now we must work to create the value for the house payments and also have to work to create value to unnecessarily pay for the Bills (dollar bills) our credit was changed into...AND we have to work to create value to compensate for the credit we unknowingly give away and allow them to sell on the stock market through a dead-pledge (mortgage).

So instead of just paying for the cost of the house, we unknowingly volunteer to pay for the other stuff because they trick us through using "semmantics" into believing we received a loan. So if a house is 100,000, we may end up working to pay up to or over half a million throughout the years.

The America taught in school had real money in the treasury that could be redeemed with real currency. And controlled within the country, but not any more. We no longer have real money and no longer have real currency. We have fiat currency issued/controlled through a private for profit corporation somewhere in Britian, or London or England (I'm not sure of their correct names). Thy established cartels over in this country to 'cash in" on our credit.

Take a look at the currency, the one dollar bill. Notice it has the same design since its beginning? Now take a look at the others (10, 20 etc..) notice they do not have the seal like the one dollar bill and change designs? Notice the style of letters on the one compared to the others? Notice FEDERAL separated from RESERVE SYSTEM?

Look at the "this note is legal tender for all debt, public and private" Notice there is NO period after the sentence, then take a look at the older currency and look at part of the sentence they left off.

And maybe this is part of my imagination but take a 20 and hold it under the light to see a faint portrait of a head...is that G.Bush??

Also, if this fiat currency we use has a hidden lien, then everything we buy using this currency may automatically belong to whoever controls that lien.

I dont expect my understanding to be 100% accurate, So go check it out, research, then see what you come up with so we can accumulate facts.

[1time2many]

Richard Nixon took us off the gold standard, not FDR. You cannot return to it, because there is not enough gold. All the gold ever produced only equals about one third of the average yearly GDP, and we don't have all the gold ever produced. Gold is not money, it is a commodity. People get confused because we used to make gold coins. Don't you find it odd that the value of gold is measured in dollars?

Most of our money doesn't even exist, it is electronic. You could never print that much money, there isn't enough paper. It isn't necessary, anyway.

Gold is money, Silver is money..........Fiat currency was designed as a divisible instrument to keep from carrying the actual coin or bar.

FDR confiscated the peoples gold then revalued it.....Nixon took us off the gold standard to allow the fractional reserve system to favor the bankers and also to allow the politicians to manipulate the peoples wealth through deficit and inflation.

While you are correct that the constitution gives only Congress the right to control the money supply and all decisions with that right.....Congress has gladly abdicated that duty to the Federal Reserve for the good of the money changers and the peril of the people.

Returning to a gold standard in some form is coming.......It does not matter about the amount of gold that exist compared to a GDP.....It has more to do with at what point will that gold be revalued to reflect the fiat dollars that exist in a given day....which includes all debt held by governments.

BTW....Gold is only traded as a commodity because of it's current use. It is getting set up to be a Tier 1 asset, which will make it once again, a form of money across the board, and the next leg will be a world currency base.

Also....All government's still produce Gold coins and Silver coins.........Silver is the most undervalued asset we have seen in 100 years.....one day soon that lil tidbit will be known to the masses.

[machinebike]

I thought of another way to try and write the 'point' I'm trying to share....

If you went to a strip club, paid her with dollar BILLS because you do not have any silver (dollars) , so you give her a 'promise to pay', or notes as a reminder you owe her a silver dollar for each Dollar bill (or note) you give her (Sort of like if you write yourself a "note" in the morning to remind you to do something).

The next day, she tries to find a real bank to redeem those reminders (or notes) with the real thing. But she discovers the real bank shut down because theres no real money (gold/silver) left. She needs to go to the store because she needs to buy food and some clothes for her youngster. So she hands the the dollar BILLS, the notes or 'reminders" as her promise to pay.

The guy at the club did not have the real money to pay her with, so he gave her a promise to pay by handing her those notes or reminders. But when she went to redeem those notes but the real bank has closed down, what else can she do? Now she has to use the notes given to her from the guy at the club to buy her goods, so now she promises to pay the store with real money but doesnt have any so she gives the notes instead.

My understanding.... this is where we are today. The reminders/notes/currency dollar bills was put in circulation without being backed by real money, so we just keep paying each other and stores with notes or promises to pay. This leaves the country in perpetual debt because we keep buying with the promises or notes/reminders to pay, leaving us with an illusion of truly paying.

My understanding also.....If we have more Chinese porducts is because the chinese gave us more credit to purchase things with our 'promises to pay'/Dollar bill/notes.

So if we cannot truly pay for the products but only pay with using the notes (dollar bills), then what we purchase becomes assets of those we pay with using the notes instead of real money. We dont truly own anything. Not the house, not the land, not even the car, because we payed with using the reminders/notes and did not pay with real money.

And these notes are not even from this country, they are from the reserve somewhere around Britian/London, or one of those areas.

Coltfan, concerrning homes and businesses, If you refer to a mortgage, then its like above. Our time and labor creates the value to recieve the dollar bills so we can make payments. Thats how your house is paid for. You pay for it while you work. There was no loan. But instead of being abkle to make the payments with real money, we make them with the reminders/notes or 'promise to pay'. Im not sure how businesses work.

Edited October 17, 2012 by machinebike