SashaM

Horror story with lost mortgage payments and demand for $20K....Ocwen

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to vassals who could prodce alot of food(ancient commodities) and thus pay taxes to the lord Even though the vassal thought he owned the land until he paid the Mortgage the lord imposed he would not get title.

What the modern financial system allows is someone to borrow based on the value of the land. So it is not money so to speak you are paying it is your work which your boss pays you for. On the island of Yap they have big stone wheels(I have seen them personally) and little ones and they write on the wheel who ones them as the owners trade the name on the wheels change hands. It is the same as modern mortgage with the"big wheel" being assigned for consideration traded.

So money is real it has value, It's value is assigned, what should really bake your noodle is that a measure of wheat for a penny has occured recently. That should be scary enough.

But maybe I should tell the JDB garnishing my wages for a debt I don't owe that theory and not pay them, I will be sure to tell them you said not to pay.88-)

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to vassals who could prodce alot of food(ancient commodities) and thus pay taxes to the lord Even though the vassal thought he owned the land until he paid the Mortgage the lord imposed he would not get title.

What the modern financial system allows is someone to borrow based on the value of the land. So it is not money so to speak you are paying it is your work which your boss pays you for. On the island of Yap they have big stone wheels(I have seen them personally) and little ones and they write on the wheel who ones them as the owners trade the name on the wheels change hands. It is the same as modern mortgage with the"big wheel" being assigned for consideration traded.

So money is real it has value, It's value is assigned, what should really bake your noodle is that a measure of wheat for a penny has occured recently. That should be scary enough.

But maybe I should tell the JDB garnishing my wages for a debt I don't owe that theory and not pay them, I will be sure to tell them you said not to pay.88-)

My guess is Britian owns the land we call "America" since they control the currency, they control the land.

The names on the wheels indicates people are being traded, not the wheels. Wheels cannot produce/create value unless a human is behind the wheel.

today, Our Birth certificates being traded, the value is not in the certificate, but the name on the certificate.

Trading wheels or certificates may be "legal'" subjecting the one trasding to legal codes OF law.

But when you trade the name on the certificate or wheel for profit, and the name represents a living being, causes living beings to become slaver laborers for others to profit. So now, because living beings are being harmed in the trade, causing the one trading to become subject to LAWS not just 'legal codes" created by man.

Living beings "judge" other living beings for violating what is legal/codes, but how does correction come when we violate living beings, not just legal codes, for profit?

The paper dollars unleashed into society have NO value, so our time, energy labor is needed to give the paper dollars value. The reserve gives us something of no value but receives it back through taxes/interest containing value we inject into it. This cause living beings to be slaves to our labor.

How does living beings (or humans) gain the authority to use other living beings for their own personal profit?

The mortgage documents are filled with "legal codes" OF law making it appear as being acceptable to subject another living being to a life long sentence of labor for a loan that doesn't exist, for their own personal gains.

Legal does NOT make it lawful.

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Sea,

You are so much smarter than this guy and highly respected on this board. Having a debate with this poster on this subject is like the president seriously debating a radical terrorist. It does nothing but look bad on the president for even giving the terrorist the time of day.

Also, anytime somebody like yourself debates an idiot, you will lose every time. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

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Gold/silver and even water is NOT man made and contains its own value

Therein lies the fallacy of your entire argument. What about dog crap? That's not man made either, does it have any value? There's enough of it around, much more plentiful than gold or silver. Why is gold so valuable but dog crap isn't? It's a decision made by men based upon the usuefulness of the particular material. Gold has many uses; jewelry, medicine, electronics, etc. Silver also serves many purposes, all of which are utilized to improve man's life. Intrinsically speaking, nothing on this planet has any value without thinking, rational people to assess that value based upon the underlying philosophical principle of improving their lives. The gold standard is impossible for economic reasons. I would suggest you take a bar of gold to a car dealership and try to pay for a new car with it. See what they put you through. Whether you like it or not, your government has the legal authority to issue currency to be used in everyday transactions. If you refuse to work, you have no means by which you can access the currency. It is not then the currency that has no value, it is you.

The paper dollars unleashed into society have NO value, so our time, energy labor is needed to give the paper dollars value.

This is what I told you before. Almost. You miss the point that the currency is a medium of exchange. It will never have any value. Let's have the government send a check for a billion dollars to everybody alive. Know what would happen? You wouldn't be able to buy a cup of coffeee within 24 hours. You figure out why.

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What about dog crap? That's not man made either, does it have any value? There's enough of it around.

Yep !! I stepped in a lot of it when I joined this thread.

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Bruno, I understand what you mean. I think the currency works nice as a medium of exchange.

What I do not believe is honest, when a homeowners credit is turned into the currency just for the purpose of profit.

I believe we have become so use to legal codes of law (or color of law) and place more importance on paper documents and less importance on why those documents exist in the first place, we forget something alive is greater then something that is not alive (pen paper).

If nothing is wrong with the way servicers are collecting from a mortgage, they should should be straight forward with their words in the documents instead of burying the meaning behind legal wording.

Colt Fan,

Im just trying to be truthful and honest with people and I feel you are replying with unfair words.

What if one day truth and honesty is enforced and we are not being truthful and honest? I am refering to the living law.... not codes of law. :oops:

Edited by machinebike

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Colt Fan, Im just trying to be truthful and honest with people and I feel you are replying with unfair words.

Thank You !! That is one of my strengths, seeing b.s. and then just calling the person out on it and not caring what you think. Anytime somebody is giving horrible advice to somebody that is reaching out for real help, I'll be right here with my "unfair" words. Again, thanks for the compliment, it's what keeps me motivated and doing what I do. Anytime somebody that is full of b.s. is upset with me, I'm a happy man. :)%

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Thank You !! That is one of my strengths, seeing b.s. and then just calling the person out on it and not caring what you think. Anytime somebody is giving horrible advice to somebody that is reaching out for real help, I'll be right here with my "unfair" words. Again, thanks for the compliment, it's what keeps me motivated and doing what I do. Anytime somebody that is full of b.s. is upset with me, I'm a happy man. :)%

But why? I'm posting explanations. and I'm quoting definitions from the legal dictionary.

if you could be specific, then I could have a better understanding, then fix what I need to fix.

Can you think of anything else containing the word dead (mort) in it, turning out to be a good thing?

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"I am refering to the living law.... not codes of law."

THIS ^^^^

You're admitting you're trying to help (well you call it that) people and you're not even using the codes of law. Well guess what buddy? These people have to fight in court, and guess what they use????????????????????????????????????????????????????

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"I am refering to the living law.... not codes of law."

THIS ^^^^

You're admitting you're trying to help (well you call it that) people and you're not even using the codes of law. Well guess what buddy? These people have to fight in court, and guess what they use????????????????????????????????????????????????????

What I meant was ...the 'living law' is truth and honesty, required of the living (people).

What i meant with codes of law was...... letters,symbols, "codes" that are embedded in legal documents that requires us to de-code the codes.

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Whatever, for real problems you should be ignored is my point. You have nothing that is useful for 99.999% of the immediate problems that are presented on this board. Most, as you've seen, will ignore you. I just don't want somebody, like the original poster in this thread, to get sucked in and do something where they lose a house. As long as you don't try to solve real problems with your theories then post away because you will be ignored. It's just a problem when you join a real thread with a real problem that needs real life answers, not some rant about how money is not money and house loans should work on earned credits.

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At hand, How to prevent the bad things from happening to the OP's Grandma. Greta van susteren, or judge jeanine piro might be interested. also making sure you gather evidence for quite title action will be a good thing. Gather up all the evidence and put it in a safe place(scan it also and save it to a hard drive).

And let us know when grandma is on TV so we can cheer for her.

Sea,

You are so much smarter than this guy and highly respected on this board. Having a debate with this poster on this subject is like the president seriously debating a radical terrorist. It does nothing but look bad on the president for even giving the terrorist the time of day.

Also, anytime somebody like yourself debates an idiot, you will lose every time. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

The debate about what is or is not money is typically taken up by someone who does not have it. Machinebike may be needing help him/herself with legal so by leaving the welcome mat out is always welcome. People believe many things but we are big enough to allow any discussion on point so we need to continue this discussion of Machinebikes proposition in a new thread because SashaM's thread is getting cluttered with this.

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Machinebikes proposition in a new thread because SashaM's thread is getting cluttered with this.

Exactly. Keep that type of "discussion" in it's own thread. Like you said and I've said, this is about possibly losing a house. It needs real solutions and I agree Sea, getting a high profile media person or group on this is a good idea.

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:)++ I understand what everyone is saying. But if you know a little more than they think you know and ask "loaded" questions....they will be on the defense instead of the offense. That may confuse them, like a deer in headlights. That should buy someone more time.

They may want a "quick fix" and take what they can from the ones they feel will be easy to take from. Asking the right questions may slam on the brakes.

They may give it a little more thought before taking action.

If you understand less, they may take more.

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:)++ I understand what everyone is saying. But if you know a little more than they think you know and ask "loaded" questions....they will be on the defense instead of the offense. That may confuse them, like a deer in headlights. That should buy someone more time.

They may want a "quick fix" and take what they can from the ones they feel will be easy to take from. Asking the right questions may slam on the brakes.

They may give it a little more thought before taking action.

If you understand less, they may take more.

But in this case the original poster has them dead to rights using the traditional court system and the traditional laws in place. Let's assume for the sake of argument you're 100% right. In my opinion, it's horrible advice IN THIS THREAD to tout what you are touting. The person losing their house has them and there is no reason to go off on some "non traditional" type argument. In this case, it will do more harm than good (personally I believe in every case, but just for the sake of the argument assume you're 100% right).

It's like being charged with a crime and you are on video 500 miles away from where the crime occurred. The prosecution has all kinds of possible technical and procedural problems with evidence. Okay, there might be a way to attack some of the evidence, but let's trump all that with the slam dunk proof you can't be guilty.

That is what you're doing in threads where there is a solid winnable solution and then you steer it to your theories about money, loans, credits or whatever. Assume you're 100% right (which I don't) and it's still not good advice in threads like this.

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WEll this thread has certainly gone on without me! Lol I don't have any updates just yet. We sent the RESPA letter so I'm hoping that helps. I'll keep updating. Thanks everyone! I'm might even talk to my grannie about sending in her case to a news outlet or something, idk how she will feell about that she is old school and believes in keeping business to yourself but maybe I can convince her and if it will help get Ocwens attention and make them do the right thing. Thanks again!

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WEll this thread has certainly gone on without me! Lol I don't have any updates just yet. We sent the RESPA letter so I'm hoping that helps. I'll keep updating. Thanks everyone! I'm might even talk to my grannie about sending in her case to a news outlet or something, idk how she will feell about that she is old school and believes in keeping business to yourself but maybe I can convince her and if it will help get Ocwens attention and make them do the right thing. Thanks again!

I think the RESPA makes a whole bunch of ants run around. Your granny sounds tough, and she has nothing to be ashamed of. This is clearly a case of them trying to defraud the mortgage payments are on time they are trying to say they were late to get money.

Think that if they win they may possibly get the mortgage cancelled or make some money to pay ahead on it.

The time for the media is now before they dig their heels in. Cause them some pain and they will start talking settlement of potential claims.

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Sasha,

I just want you to know that your grandparents are not alone in their mortgage misery. Fortunately for me, I have found a lot of help on this board, even if that help was just to get up and call someone or do something. I have had some incredibly great or horribly bad luck in dealing with creditors. I suppose its how you look at it.

I am going to run down my experiences with bank of america, our mortgage servicer, from lets say january, 2012 going forward.

January-we pay our mortgage on time and in full as required by our loan agreement.

February-"uncollected costs" for $40 appears on our statement in addition to a late fee of approximately $200. I speak to the wife and we review bank statements. Payment made on time. I contact the bank and protest. No luck. Bank calls us, demanding $2,000. We refuse to pay. We make the 'regular' mortgage payment, and do not include the added fees.

March- Bank accelerates mortgage and threatens foreclosure. Now demands $4,000 to bring loan current. we are unable to pay our 'new' unagreed to mortgage payment. Work tirelessly to resolve issues with bank.

April-Bank re-accelerates our mortgage. Don't ask. I wish I knew.

July 9th-Bank rejects our application for Foreclosure alternatives, because our loan is "current" in "good standing" and lastly because "we are not at risk of default or foreclosure." Interesting response because we never applied for program.

July 10th-receive letter from bank that our loan was referred for foreclosure.

July 11th-receive dunning letter from BoA lawfirm. Lawyers demand 290K, claim BoA is creditor and servicer.

July 12th Go ape**** on BoA. Phone rings off the hook all day from the bank. No resolution.

July 27, BoA files foreclosure suit. Amount demanded is 280K. Complaint referenced and incorporated documents that were not attached to complaint.

August 1-Served with lawsuit.

August 9th- BoA receives our Respa QWR request. Has until 7 days-ish from now to respond.

August 31-enter appearance and file motion to dismiss.

September 12-Court ordered mediation held. Ordered to continue to work with bank to resolve issues.

September 12-Motion to dismiss denied as court lacks jurisdiction, pending outcome of court ordered mediation.

September 24-receive 3 page fedex packet from BoA stating we have 3 days to send documents or will be kicked out of mediation.

September 26-mediation. no progress made. BoA pisses off judge and mediatior for September 24 letter since boA does not control mediation process. mediator grants 6 weeks to resolve.

October 23-Bank sends me bill for legal services. Claim I owe $3,500.

October 25- Receive letter denying us qualification for HAMP, citing insufficient income. Bank states our income is half what it really is, and our expenses are double what they really are. Never interested in modifiying, just having the bank fix their mess-ups.

November 6- Mediation. As of today (10/25/12), I have called the woman from boa newly assigned to our account over 50 times in the past 3 1/2 weeks. no answer, no reply to phone calls.

A lawyer will go a long way in helping you. If someone were to ask me if a lawyer is helping me I would say mostly doubtful, but definitely wouldn't say "no" or "yes."

Eventually, I will be David--so long as investors and the Feds don't reduce BoA to rubble first.

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Eventually, I will be David--so long as investors and the Feds don't reduce BoA to rubble first.
::BigGun::

And we got your back..... ::BigGun::

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wheel lock,

Someday (hopefully) people will understand they are not dealing with real banks.

Real banks had real money, the gold, the silver, waiting to be borrowed.

So when someone would obtain the paper dollars, in the olden days would have been considered a loan because they would have had gold/silver to back them.

But today, we are not under the same system. When they change your credit over to the paper dollars, there is no gold or silver to back them so they are turning your credit into debt. Credit is just a number with your 'promise to pay' or what you promise you will work to create the value for the payments needed to buy your house, thats it. You buy your house when you make the payments because YOU are giving the paper dollars their value through your time and labor.

When they change your credit from being a valueless number into valueless paper dollars, they are able to attach "usage fees" (interest) to those paper dollars, so when you make your payments, you will be giving them back the paper dollars WITH VALUE. (They do not have value BEFORE you work, but AFTER you work.

When someone agrees to a dead- pledge (mort-gage), they agree to work and create value that is needed for a higher number (or promise to pay) of their credit. So now the "monopoly" institutions will be able to collect paper dollars containing value, value that you gave them.

1. Credit = a number, a promise to pay, no value.

2. Credit changed into paper dollars (paper numbers) = debt.

3. Debt = usage fee charges (interest) attached to the paper dollars.

4. Payments = paper dollars now containing value.

5. Value the paper dollars now contain = your time and labor.

And this is why these mortgage institutions profit off of your credit.

If you trace their origin to the Reserve (London?), you can see they are of a foreign nation established over here to profit from our credit.

They "construe and construct" their own "legal" laws because the system is artificial. Its just paper and numbers. Because they removed gold and silver, its easy to take advantage of someone because its harder to prove the value coming from someones labor more than gold and silver.

Ive read 2 Presidents were going to give the citizens in this country, Certificates with Silver backing (Silver certificates) to make it harder to take advantage of someone...and they were both executed. Lincoln and Kennedy.

What is the certificate containing a number representing your available credit?

Google "Birth Certificate a government bond". Once you learn more about the foundation of this monopoly system, the right questions to ask will be easier.

They would rather avoid you rather than trying to take your "labor backed paper dollars" from your bank account as much as they can before people figure out what is going on.

Can you see why things seem scrambled and they care about collecting from you more than helping you?

Edited by machinebike

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Machine,

I know Gwheelock. I can assure you that he won't be using your garbage arguments. He actually has them using what 99.9% of people use, the courts in the United States of America, using arguments a judge will actually listen to. He can speak for himself of course, but I've read some of his cases, Plaintiff and Defendant, and I can assure you that he is not your lamb you can lead to the slaughter using your garbage.

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Machine,

I know Gwheelock. I can assure you that he won't be using your garbage arguments. He actually has them using what 99.9% of people use, the courts in the United States of America, using arguments a judge will actually listen to. He can speak for himself of course, but I've read some of his cases, Plaintiff and Defendant, and I can assure you that he is not your lamb you can lead to the slaughter using your garbage.

Coltfan, why the insulting words? Did I write something you do not want to understand? Do you work for a mortgage company and understand but don't want others to understand?

* Mans court is based on what is legal (papers and documents).

*The Creators court is based on what is lawful (truth/honesty).

Because I belong to the Creators court, I speak what I understand to be true and honest, and If I need verbal correction, then I'd hope you will give verbal correction without the use of insulting words. Your choice of words makes it difficult for me to reply back to you without using insulting words myself. But because I know better and if I were to use insulting words back, then I profane ("misuse thy name") the Creators court.

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Because your hijacking someones thread. If they want your help they will post on your thread. No one here is listening to your garbage. I stated before your making basically the same argument as Irwin Schiff and look how that turned out for him. So whats your story are you just trying to fight a foreclosure? What is the REAL reason your doing this? Why are you so persistent what do you really want? To educate people? Write a book, make a movie. Just stop hijacking others threads with your diatribe. Let us know when your going to make your arguments in court I want a front row seat. I can already see your reply oh the banks this and the money is nothing and loans are nothing blah blah blah, what is the real reason for your obsession, what happened to you? I ask because this would never have come about unless something happened to you! Spit it out!

Coltfan, why the insulting words? Did I write something you do not want to understand? Do you work for a mortgage company and understand but don't want others to understand?

* Mans court is based on what is legal (papers and documents).

*The Creators court is based on what is lawful (truth/honesty).

Because I belong to the Creators court, I speak what I understand to be true and honest, and If I need verbal correction, then I'd hope you will give verbal correction without the use of insulting words. Your choice of words makes it difficult for me to reply back to you without using insulting words myself. But because I know better and if I were to use insulting words back, then I profane ("misuse thy name") the Creators court.

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Because your hijacking someones thread.

THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I've already answered your question about why I keep coming after you. We have people with real problems needing real solutions, and you keep coming in threads like this and spewing your garbage. It's not fair to those that are looking for help.

You notice all the threads you start about this garbage I'm not in there after everyone of your posts? We can all ignore those and you have a right to spew your garbage in your own threads.

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attempt by the banks to defraud. Is it possible MachineBike is a bank shill? It sounds to me the conversation shifting is not gonna happen, So we must necessarily shun in this thread comments not related to SashaM's stuff. Let us only discuss the measures to get them to not only admit they were dirty but to make them wish they never had done this to a CIC members grandmother and grandfather.

So things the banks fear most, exposure of bad actions that scurilous employees are engaging in methods that are attributed to the banks them selves. Reports of instances will invarily result in further victims going forward. So the exposure to the state ag and the media I think will bear the most fruit. Sasha if your Grandmother does all that they will never try to pull this on them again.

So I hope that an attorney has contacted you or you have talked with one because it will be be a smackdown for the bank. I can't imagine how a customer who pays on time every time is not given trips on cruises and such because they are supporting the bank really.

Also If I were your granny I would look into not having other accounts with them and closing and transferrring to another bank and telling them you have lost faith in this banks business practices. Make sure she says to the reporters also.

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