creonxxx

Triggers that resurface old debt

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Is there some national computer program that sends out an alert to search for old debt on certain consumers because this last year for me has been ridiculous. I'm trying to figure what triggered this flood of collection calls on all this old debt.

I think I may know how this all happened. My sweet mom passed away in Dec 2011. I had to file with the California Estate Recovery because she received medi-cal. The process to get that account closed and be absolved from paying was intense. If you think dealing with low life junk debt buyers is tough try dealing with your state collection agency that stops at nothing to get even a penny out of you. You talk about ruthless and deceptive they define it. It took months of nonsense before I finally acquired a lawyer who specializes in Elder Law and Estate Recovery and within a week the account was closed but not without one very mad collection agent voicing her opinion. Yes I can say I beat the state of California but the process was pretty brutal and can only imagine what an elderly person goes through with all of that mess.

During this period I noticed two odd things. 1. Suddenly folks like midland and portfolio started calling every other day about old debt. In the worst case situation Portfolio actually called me on Mothers day 2. Credit reports were showing mysterious loan company's running credit checks on me. I never had applied for any loan. I never associated this to what was going on with the State at the time. Keep in mind I had just watched my mother rot away from cancer for 9 months and suddenly I was thrust into the idea that if every debt collector gets what they are hounding me for I would be on the streets. Every debt is so far past the SOL it didn't make since why all of a sudden they'd try this hounding routine so my thought was be careful and make sure they don't try to get a default judgement by not serving me properly. I have lived in constant fear this year I'd be wiped clean by some nasty debt collector pulling some illegal move on me.

This year every old debt has resurfaced. 9 and 10 year old debt. This includes a 10 year old debt for 250 dollars that not once in the past 10 years of delinquency was there any call for collections. I always referred to that debt as the little hang nail as it seemed to never get much collection action. This year? At least 5 calls about it and 2 collection agencies tossing it around. This year I've had to send out so far 8 C&D letters. I've had more threats and violations than ever. I honestly didn't know my rights were being violated until I found this place one evening. Calls from different agencies all the time. Neighbors have been called twice now from two companies acting as if there is some serious legal issue I need to deal with promptly and because my neighbors sincerely care about me they worry what it all means. Not once in 10 years did any neighbor get calls for me in regard to a debt. Not to mention I've had the same landline listed in the white pages. My last name is very unique. In fact I'm the only person in America with my first and last name. My last names ethnic origin is Slovak.

I feel like this huge victim of a cruel routine that someone has played on me. When I explain to someone what I've went through with all this collection mess this past year every one says it's not normal to have every single old debt this old being brought back up all at once and I'm told get a lawyer as California has laws that could end this. My phone rings off the hook in the evenings with dead calls for two days then a collector starts responding two days later and it's another new company to deal with. It's always the same. I request first date of delinquency. They verbalize the date of delinquency realizing it's way past the SOL and get that I'm aware of all my rights. I C&D and it moves on. I'm sick of it. They run checks on my credit reports. All but one has made them soft runs but whats the point? Each time they sell it you'd think contact info is included in the portfolio. What I'd like to know is if there is a way to specifically target a consumer for harassment on old debt and pass it along for no other purpose than to harass them? This has never made me want to pay them. Instead I'd like to take a phone and cram it down their throat. I'm not going to change my phone number. What I want is to find the person or company who may have done this to me to start all this harassment.

Anyone else feel like they have been targeted to simply just pester and pester about old debt?

Edited by creonxxx

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Just about any visible activity, but especially those where you appear to, or might, get money, can trigger these calls. The monitor deaths because so many of them do result in relatives getting something out of it.

When your neighbors ask about it, provide them with an "information sheet" otn how to deal with identity theft and scammers. That should make most of them quit asking.

Let me try to make up a new saying: "old debts never die; they just find junkier collectors"

Last JDB that tried to collect on an old debt I didn't even owe in the first place, I engaged him hard enough he hung up on me. Then I called back and chewed out his boss (who was a lot better at making up lies on the fly). Haven't heard from them for almost a year, now.

Edited by Torden

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Just about any visible activity, but especially those where you appear to, or might, get money, can trigger these calls. The monitor deaths because so many of them do result in relatives getting something out of it.

When your neighbors ask about it, provide them with an "information sheet" otn how to deal with identity theft and scammers. That should make most of them quit asking.

My neighbors are pretty protective of me. They watched me go through hell and sincerely care. All I've said is that when I called the number it wasn't me they were looking for and did mention identity theft. I have told them if anyone calls like that again ask them to never call them again.

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Just about any visible activity, but especially those where you appear to, or might, get money, can trigger these calls. The monitor deaths because so many of them do result in relatives getting something out of it.

When your neighbors ask about it, provide them with an "information sheet" otn how to deal with identity theft and scammers. That should make most of them quit asking.

Let me try to make up a new saying: "old debts never die; they just find junkier collectors"

Last JDB that tried to collect on an old debt I didn't even owe in the first place, I engaged him hard enough he hung up on me. Then I called back and chewed out his boss (who was a lot better at making up lies on the fly). Haven't heard from them for almost a year, now.

I've never sat back and played a victims role where I let someone step all over me. I've been very direct with each caller as to where I stand with all this nonsense. These forums were a God send to learn about all my rights and how to present them. I'm just amazed at how much of it has went on this past year. It's off the hook at times to where you expect to hear a knock at the door and some thug is standing there with a bat in one hand and gun in the other yelling... GIVE US MONEY for a debt you've had since the age 12 :)

The funny thing about the assumption that someone gets a monetary boost after a loved ones death is comical to me personally. I actually inherited a boat load of additional debt and some of it was a bit of a surprise but I was able to take care of all that. No windfall of money though.

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Most any loan application, especially for a car or house, or like was mentioned. A death in the family can bring out the vultures because they think they smell money.

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Most any loan application, especially for a car or house, or like was mentioned. A death in the family can bring out the vultures because they think they smell money.

So then dealing with Estate Recovery was a trigger? I can't think of how each agency would know of a death without some master application passing the info along.

The loan company on my credit report was odd as hell. When I contacted them and asked what that was all about they played stupid and the credit check disappeared.

Estate Recovery is invasive. Although all the paperwork is suppose to focus on the deceased some how your net worth is a free little side game. I am sure they came up with what they felt was their own comparative market analysis of my home but probate law does not allow them to present that finding as fact. Whatever licensed realtor I hire to give an estimate is what is accepted as the CMA.

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They do gather all kinds of public info in government records at all levels. If your name appeared might be all it takes for some. E.g. it might not even matter what it was, just that something happened and you are on the radar.

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If the work of the CA Estate Recovery Board is public then yes, that probably triggered the vultures. Most public records where they think you might have something they can get will do that. Also, any changes in your credit status that is reported on your credit report can trigger the calls. I do not know however is someone buying a car or house with cash would do so if there is nothing on the credit report because stuff like that is not reported (only loans, mortgages, and reviews).

In any case, now is the time to start putting into practice what you know. First thing you know is that all of these debts are SOL. Therefore they can try to sue you but you would have an affirmative defense and counterclaim. The C&Ds are fine and expect the debt to get sold. If they call your neighbor and tell them of your debt or say anything other than how to get hold of you, that is a no no. Also, calling your neighbor after contacting you can be considered a no no because they have no permissible purpose at this time. Also, since they debts are more than 7.5 years old, any reporting other than a soft pull (which does not count toward your score or is shown to any creditor) is not permissible.

Based on this, the first thing I would do is ask the neighbors if they would be willing to go to court to testify about the calls they are getting. You do not want to force them but it would be great if they could. The second thing is to get some notebooks to keep track of these calls. I record the number the called from, the date, the time, company name, who I talked to, and what was said and happened. I also record the state license number of the company or the collector if that applies in CA (in MN, both apply as the company and the collectors are to be licensed by the state, caught one company on that where they company was registered but only one collector was licensed and the people I talked to was not that collector). You can also try to record the calls. Some members swear by that, others swear at it because of the state and federal rules.

Finally, realize that you may have to go to federal court sooner or later to protect your rights. After the Estate Recovery Board, it sounds like Federal Court would be a cake walk for you. However, looking up a good consumer attorney might not be a bad idea either. If you have your records and evidence though, most of the time they will settle. Once you do a couple of these, you will find that most of this will stop because you name will be put on a list of people who exercise their rights and most collectors will want to have nothing to do with you. Notice I say most because there are many members on this board whose name has to be on said list and they still get the chance to go to Federal Court once in a while.

If you hold strong however, this too shall pass. It may take some work on your part however.

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I received an offer to settle from a JDB for a very old account.

The offer had my former last name (as it would have been shown on the old supposed account). There has been no activity on that for years. Doesn't even show on my CRs.

Odd how things just pop up out of nowhere!

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I received an offer to settle from a JDB for a very old account.

The offer had my former last name (as it would have been shown on the old supposed account). There has been no activity on that for years. Doesn't even show on my CRs.

Odd how things just pop up out of nowhere!

It is cases like this where I like Coltfan's letter:

"Dear JDB

I refuse to pay this debt!

Regards,

Alleged Creditor"

After all, what are they going to do about it.

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It is cases like this where I like Coltfan's letter:

"Dear JDB

I refuse to pay this debt!

Regards,

Alleged Creditor"

After all, what are they going to do about it.

That's a good one!

It was because of this that I found out Chemical bank from up north was no longer! That's how long ago this supposed account was from.

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If the work of the CA Estate Recovery Board is public then yes, that probably triggered the vultures. Most public records where they think you might have something they can get will do that. Also, any changes in your credit status that is reported on your credit report can trigger the calls. I do not know however is someone buying a car or house with cash would do so if there is nothing on the credit report because stuff like that is not reported (only loans, mortgages, and reviews).

In any case, now is the time to start putting into practice what you know. First thing you know is that all of these debts are SOL. Therefore they can try to sue you but you would have an affirmative defense and counterclaim. The C&Ds are fine and expect the debt to get sold. If they call your neighbor and tell them of your debt or say anything other than how to get hold of you, that is a no no. Also, calling your neighbor after contacting you can be considered a no no because they have no permissible purpose at this time. Also, since they debts are more than 7.5 years old, any reporting other than a soft pull (which does not count toward your score or is shown to any creditor) is not permissible.

Based on this, the first thing I would do is ask the neighbors if they would be willing to go to court to testify about the calls they are getting. You do not want to force them but it would be great if they could. The second thing is to get some notebooks to keep track of these calls. I record the number the called from, the date, the time, company name, who I talked to, and what was said and happened. I also record the state license number of the company or the collector if that applies in CA (in MN, both apply as the company and the collectors are to be licensed by the state, caught one company on that where they company was registered but only one collector was licensed and the people I talked to was not that collector). You can also try to record the calls. Some members swear by that, others swear at it because of the state and federal rules.

Finally, realize that you may have to go to federal court sooner or later to protect your rights. After the Estate Recovery Board, it sounds like Federal Court would be a cake walk for you. However, looking up a good consumer attorney might not be a bad idea either. If you have your records and evidence though, most of the time they will settle. Once you do a couple of these, you will find that most of this will stop because you name will be put on a list of people who exercise their rights and most collectors will want to have nothing to do with you. Notice I say most because there are many members on this board whose name has to be on said list and they still get the chance to go to Federal Court once in a while.

If you hold strong however, this too shall pass. It may take some work on your part however.

Thanks for the comments. This entire past year has been a test of survival and not allowing anyone to mess with me and what is mine. I honestly would not have known how to handle collections had it not been for finding these forums.

I'm more than willing to go to Fed Court and fight. I'm not the scared consumer that sits in a corner and gives up. It's more scary doing nothing. Dealing with Estate Recovery was a huge lesson in how brutal all collectors are regardless of the entity they represent. Instinctively all communication was sent certified and yet they still claimed they never received certain information. I was so organized when I finally got to a lawyer she was amazed at how much detail I'd applied as most have no clue what they are doing. I didn't really know what I was doing entirely but certain area's I knew it was best to create a paper trail "just in case" Their game plan was to push me past the appeals date by dragging out requests for information that had either already been filed or was of no use in evaluation. They refused written requests to send waiver applications so I submitted a detailed waivers I found on line and had those notarized. It was a game of cat an mouse. My lawyer explained something to me that will stick with me forever about collection agents.... She said, they aren't the law. They don't know the law and have zero regard for the law. They could have been hired a week prior after working as a checker at Walmart. Their goal is always the same. GET MONEY. and if you feel somethings not right then chances are it's not.

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Whose debt is this - yours or your mother's (not that it matters, my comments would be the same reagrdless).

If yours: The debt is OOS - tell them they are SOL and send a CMRRR that they are to go pound sand. If they pulled your credit on a OOS debt, simply file suit for $2,000 ($1000 for the FCRA impermissible pull violation and one for the FDCPA misrepresenting the legal nature of the debt violation).

If mom's: Tell them the debt is not yours and to never call you again. Follow up with a CMRRR letter. If they pulled your credit on mom's debt, simply file suit for $2,000 ($1000 for the FCRA impermissible pull violation and one for the FDCPA misrepresenting the legal nature of the debt violation - that the debt was yours to begin with).

In another thread you asked about the impermissible pull argument on an OOS debt. Here's the theory of law: FCRA gives PP to "assist in the collection of a debt". This PP presumes the debt is collectable at all. An OOS debt is not collectable in the Courts, so PP expired with the Statute of Limitations on Suit.

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Whose debt is this - yours or your mother's (not that it matters, my comments would be the same reagrdless).

If yours: The debt is OOS - tell them they are SOL and send a CMRRR that they are to go pound sand. If they pulled your credit on a OOS debt, simply file suit for $2,000 ($1000 for the FCRA impermissible pull violation and one for the FDCPA misrepresenting the legal nature of the debt violation).

If mom's: Tell them the debt is not yours and to never call you again. Follow up with a CMRRR letter. If they pulled your credit on mom's debt, simply file suit for $2,000 ($1000 for the FCRA impermissible pull violation and one for the FDCPA misrepresenting the legal nature of the debt violation - that the debt was yours to begin with).

In another thread you asked about the impermissible pull argument on an OOS debt. Here's the theory of law: FCRA gives PP to "assist in the collection of a debt". This PP presumes the debt is collectable at all. An OOS debt is not collectable in the Courts, so PP expired with the Statute of Limitations on Suit.

First off, you give great advice! As for the old debt they are calling about it's mine. When initially filing with Estate Recovery after my mothers death to officially notify them of her death as her heir I was required to give them my SS number so I'm guessing that began the string of searching to see what they could find about me. The credit check by the loan company was crazy seeing as how I'd never applied for a loan but as I said when I contacted the company they disappeared off the list.

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First off, you give great advice! As for the old debt they are calling about it's mine. When initially filing with Estate Recovery after my mothers death to officially notify them of her death as her heir I was required to give them my SS number so I'm guessing that began the string of searching to see what they could find about me. The credit check by the loan company was crazy seeing as how I'd never applied for a loan but as I said when I contacted the company they disappeared off the list.

Yes, you are right. The CRA's sell all kinds of lists to collectors. Once you gave your SS# and the Estate Recovery made any sort of inquiry into your file (background/credit etc), your name landed on a list that was sold to CA's and JDB's. These lists are complied by CRA's and sold as one more profit center for the CRA. Your (our) data is valuable. It's really awful how this whole idea of creditworthiness has morphed into tracking you (us) for any purchase/sale/event that involves a financial function. You weren't even borrowing funds, you were doing the appropriate paperwork for your mothers estate!

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Hey Flyingfir, the OP is in CA and you forgot about the Rosenthal Act. Not up to your usual standards. :D

Since I am not knowledgeable of the various State and local laws, I only comment on Federal.

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How would the Rosenthal Act change any of Flyingifr's advice?

Since Rosenthal is a State (CA) law, any violations of Rosenthal become additional Stat Damages that can be sued for.

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Yes - if one had an FDCPA violation and live in CA, then it is also generally, a violation of Rosenthal... that means $2k in statutory damages instead of $1k.

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