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No trial...was a MSJ hearing...never should have tried to do Pro Se......

 

Please don't say that. I'm sorry you had a bad experience but believe me, not trying is worse. You fought hard and you should be proud of yourself. Not trying by tons of people is how this all got started and how the JDB's ruined the courts. You are now part of the solution instead of part of the problem. Everyone who fights back, whether they win or lose, is doing the right thing and making this world a better place. I'm proud of you.

 

Thank you for doing your part in the JDB revolution. I for one commend you!

 

  ::allhail::

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Please don't say that. I'm sorry you had a bad experience but believe me, not trying is worse. You fought hard and you should be proud of yourself. Not trying by tons of people is how this all got started and how the JDB's ruined the courts. You are now part of the solution instead of part of the problem. Everyone who fights back, whether they win or lose, is doing the right thing and making this world a better place. I'm proud of you.

 

Thank you for doing your part in the JDB revolution. I for one commend you!

 

  ::allhail::

I agree if only more people would fight. Trust me it's hard I have had to go to court just for simple motions and have puked before leaving the house every time. I honostly wish I had it in me to puke in court. I only hope I could walk up to the other lawyer and do it on them! Yes I have dreams small as they may be.

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   You are likely screwed on this one.  Where you went wrong is attempting to strike down a affidavit.  A affidavit is a sworn statement  signed by a civil notary and a judge is  unlikely to dismiss the affidavit in it's entirety.  In my response to the complaint, I note that the affidavit is nothing more then a sworn hearsay, and I move on.   I approach EVERY case,  as a suspected fraudulent account.  Until they prove in court otherwise, I have no re-collection of wtf they are talking about.   Never say I did not. Instead always say Defendant does not recall using the subject debt.  This implies that you don't remember  and if the plaintiff proves you wrong, then you avoid a contempt of court charge because you were implying "to the best of my knowledge" .

 

  You should always send a REQUEST to Produce on the same day you answer the complaint, with a certificate of service to the court.   In your Request to Produce,  ask for any and all documents, correspondences or any other piece of evidence that proves that the account was not conceived fraudulently.  

 

  Ask for a contract that was signed (in writing   that you acknowledged being under said contracts.  Civil Law states that one party can not create a liability on a open account when no contract (verbal or written) exists out of which a debtor- creditor relationship could arise.. ( Cherokee Oil Co. v. Union Oil Co. of California, 706 F Supp. 826  (M.D.Fla. 1989) affirmed 901 F.2d 1114.  

  

   There are only 2 for sure defenses for civil debt,  1)  Statue of Limitations has expired .. 2) Debt was Fraudulently conceived.   What separates those who win against these JDB and those that loose, is what one does BEFORE the court date.  The most ground you will gain is in the motions and requests you file (and how the Plaintiff responds)  before you appear before a judge.    By sending a Request For Production that asks them to provide documents that would disprove a fraud claim, you have set the foundation of your claim.   Note.  I always move forward on the grounds that I do not "remember"   this debt,  so it "may"  be fraudulent, and I put the burden of proof on the Plaintiff to prove otherwise.  This approach has never failed me in debts that were 3 years old or older.

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No trial...was a MSJ hearing...never should have tried to do Pro Se......

 

   When you answer the complaint,  ALWAYS send a REQUEST TO Produce with a certificate of service with the courts. If they filed a MJD,  respond with a Opposition to MSJ with a certificate of service to the court..    This will get you a hearing.  At the hearing,  you want to say that the Plaintiff has not yet answered your Request to produce, and you oppose the Summery Judgement because the plaintiff's response is vital to your defense. ( you will have court stamped copies of your certificate of service in hand as proof )  I have NEVER seen a Judge grant a Summery Judgement if this was done before the hearing.  

 

    You can try to file an appeal of the Summery Judgment. In your appeal, you will explain that you were not yet familiar with civil procedure, and you have no choice but to defend your self because you can not even afford to pay the alleged debt, let alone hire a lawyer.  Ask for a interjection on the MSJ, until the Plaintiff responds to your motion to produce.  Remember,  you don't no ANYTHING about this debt that they can not prove.  Until they prove otherwise, this debt may be fraudulent in nature.

     In your plea,  you will apologize for your lack of knowledge of the correct  procedures, and  you have taken great steps in correcting this matter, and in the interest of Justice,  you ask for appeal so that you may present your case, in the parameters of civil procedure.

 

   This may or may not work.  It has worked before, so it's worth a shot, and the worst that could happen is that your appeal to the Summery Judgement will get denied.   Won't hurt to try. 

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   You are likely screwed on this one.  Where you went wrong is attempting to strike down a affidavit.  A affidavit is a sworn statement  signed by a civil notary and a judge is  unlikely to dismiss the affidavit in it's entirety.  In my response to the complaint, I note that the affidavit is nothing more then a sworn hearsay, and I move on.   I approach EVERY case,  as a suspected fraudulent account.  Until they prove in court otherwise, I have no re-collection of wtf they are talking about.   Never say I did not. Instead always say Defendant does not recall using the subject debt.  This implies that you don't remember  and if the plaintiff proves you wrong, then you avoid a contempt of court charge because you were implying "to the best of my knowledge" .

 

  You should always send a REQUEST to Produce on the same day you answer the complaint, with a certificate of service to the court.   In your Request to Produce,  asks for any and all documents, correspondences or any other piece of evidence that proves that the account was not conceived fraudulently.  

 

  Ask for a contract that was signed (in writing   that you acknowledged being under said contracts.  Civil Law states that one party can not create a liability on a open account when no contract (verbal or written) exists out of which a debtor- creditor relationship could arise.. ( Cherokee Oil Co. v. Union Oil Co. of California, 706 F Supp. 826  (M.D.Fla. 1989) affirmed 901 F.2d 1114.  

  

   There are only 2 for sure defenses for civil debt,  1)  Statue of Limitations has expired .. 2) Debt was Fraudulently conceived.   What separates those who win against these JDB and those that loose, is what one does BEFORE the court date.  The most ground you will gain is in the motions and requests you file (and how the Plaintiff responds)  before you get before a judge.    By sending a Request For Production that asks them to provide documents that would disprove a fraud claim, you have set the foundation of your claim.   Note.  I always move forward on the grounds that I do not "remember"   this debt,  so it "may"  be fraudulent, and I put the burden of proof on the Plaintiff to prove otherwise.  This approach has never failed me in debts that were 3 years old or older.

 

Judges in civil court (especially against a pro se) hold a lot of stock in affidavits. I don't disagree with attacking affidavits but it must be attacked properly. Foundation and documentary evidence should be your key words. The affidavits link all of the documents. Without the affidavit, they require a live witness that they don't bring.  Without the affidavits all you have left is a big pile of sh*t paper.

 

 

 

   When you answer the complaint,  ALWAYS send a REQUEST TO Produce ,  and a Opposition to MSJ with a certificate of service to the court..   At the hearing,  you want to say that the Plaintiff has not yet answered your Request to produce, and you oppose the Summery Judgement because the plaintiff's response is vital to your defense.  I have NEVER seen a Judge grant a Summery Judgement if this was done before the hearing.  

 

This confuses me. How can you answer a complaint with an opposition to a motion for summary judgement that hasn't been filed yet? Are you serious? What exactly are you opposing... their right to file one?

And how do you know the plaintiff hasn't answered the request to produce? This is bad advice.

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"In your appeal, you will explain that you were not yet familiar with civil procedure"

 

 

You put this in an appeal and you'll lose so fast your head will spin. "I don't know what I'm doing" is not judicial error.

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Exactly, just because you're a pro se they aren't supposed to give you a break or take it easy on you. You're supposed to know the law and procedures just like an attorney.

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And as Bruno said, appeals are to correct a judicial error, not for you to get a "do over" because you didn't know what you were doing.

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   When you answer the complaint,  ALWAYS send a REQUEST TO Produce with a certificate of service with the courts. 

 

In many states doing so is going to be equivalent to throwing part of your case away. In many states there are disclosure rules with specific time lines and requirements of what must be disclosed. For instance in Utah 14 days after service they are required to disclose any agreement they are bring suit under, all witnesses along with summary of testimony, all documents and electronic records they intend to use in their case. If they do not disclose them, they can not use them. 99.99% of JDB lawyers will never properly disclose and torpedo their own case. However if you start discovery before the disclosure deadline, you waive disclosure.

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This confuses me. How can you answer a complaint with an opposition to a motion for summary judgement that hasn't been filed yet? Are you serious?

Always be 1 step ahead of the jdb, come on Flyerfan, Lol.

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Always be 1 step ahead of the jdb, come on Flyerfan, Lol.

 

Actually I'm going to send oppositions to MSJ to Cache, Midland, Asset Acceptance and all the rest just in case they sue me. Hell, maybe I should just file a motion to dismiss any case that gets filed. They won't know what hit them!  

 

Wait, I might be on to something here. Hahaha

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I am very sorry you lost your case and so unfairly. But I'll be dammed if I lose my case if I am going to go and hide. *^$#%& these scumbags, they will feel my wrath, maybe not today, but someday.

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A few months ago I posted a link to an article, I think in the Wall Street Journal, about how unfair and hostile the courts in Indiana were to debtors.

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I am very sorry you lost your case and so unfairly. But I'll be dammed if I lose my case if I am going to go and hide. *^$#%& these scumbags, they will feel my wrath, maybe not today, but someday.

I feel the same way. If you object properly you may be able to appeal, and if not; they still have to collect.

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What issues did you bring up in opposition? also don't get all down on yourself in Indiana the courts are abusing everyone with MSJ even if you do oppose they just blow by it and they do this because? The higher courts have their back.

 

However you can still fight if you file a motion to vacate and tear their case apart.

 

I helped some people with this before maybe it will help you. As a disclaimer it will only get you back to square one but it is something if the court hasn't entered a judgment then you can do something let us know if you want to continue.

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I have been following these board postings since I recved Summons in October. I used some of the forms..Request for Debt Validation  Request to strike Affidavit of  Debt and how to request dismissal  of Midland's MSJ.

On 2/14/13 I showed up one hour early to my hearing..I thought I was pretty prepared...I read tons of things on internet about how to fight JDB's and I had my notebook with my opening statement...first to strike affidavit...obvious it was a robosigned one...second there was no bill of sale from Equable to Midland even though in the Affidavit it stated Midland "acquired" account from Equable, Midland did not show the Chain of Title from original debtor WAMU/Chase to Equable then to Midland...this alone should have been a red flag to Judge as it gives Midland no reason to sue.

As I was sitting outside the court room several people were filing in mostly poor and most of them were Midland Funding Lawsuits. The clerke directed them to speak with Attorney Jim Boscia of Boscia, Bowman and Vician a Lawfirm out of Merrilville IN. I am in Elkhart County Merrilville is 100 miles to the west...but I digress...the point I am trying to make is this Clerk called the Attorney by first name JIM and they were on friendly terms....my gut dropped to my feet....I am screwed.

When it was time to go in...I gathered all my papers and went to sit down. In comes the scumbag JIM with his lap top followed by several misguided obviously scared and very unprepared defendants. In comes Judge Lewis, we all RISE and clerk calls 1st case. JIM goes to stand in front of Judge with laptop in hand...opens lap top...he smiles at clerk(she remarked earlier that if she keeps things in the order she has planned he owes her a BLIZZARD from DQ down the street..REALLY???) I knew then I was in trouble. Anyhow the first case is open and shut the defendant was Hispanic, required his grand daughter to interpret, he kept his head down obviously shamed by this event. No rebutal on their part. Judge awards judgement without looking up at defendant. Down goes the gavel and I begin to get real nervous. A couple more cases go by all of them open and shut...gavel down....instant MSJ awarded.

My turn...I walk to the Judge and open my little book with my well detailed notes...the Judge reads the orginal summons, then my request for DV, then my request to Strike Affidavit of Debt and request for Dismissal. Judge has my well written request to Strike Affidavit....I said to himthat this Affivadavit was flimsy at best. He remarked why do you say that. I remarked b/c the said Affiant for one is not present in court ..he states she is not been subpoened I nod I know this youir Honor...but this Affivadavit is Hearsay b/c she states that I as defendant owe Midland 9923.74 . She also stated that Midland acquired this debt from Equable Ascent but did not show a bill of sale. I asked the Judge how can hearsay be used as evidence? How do I know that another debt buyer does not say they own the same debt and next month will ask me for the same 9k? He barely looked at me and said the request to strike is denied. I stood there shocked and I began to tear up a bit. I quoted a Federal Rule of Evidence 106 requires that I be shown all the documents related to bill of sale. Judge quickly stated Miss DeBartolo this is an Indiana Court. I replied Does the Federal Rule not apply to all states...he snarked No it does not.

Then scumbag JIM proceeded to talk...all a bunch of marlarky if you ask me...about how no one likes debt buyers(NO kidding) and that Midland has had it's fair amount of lawsuits(I can see why they are crooks). He goes on to state that Affidavits are always going to be questioned as hearsay just because they are a persons best recollection of the facts as they are known or some babbling BS. By then I was looking like the rest of the poor souls that left the court room. It was OBVIOUS JUDGE was a Creditor FRIENDLY Judge and all us debtors are deadbeats looking for entitlements or what ever.

Needles to say...I knew if I appealed...I would not win in this CONSERVATIVE ELKHART INDIANA Judicial system...so I agreed with scumbag JIM on a payment plan of 300/month.

I spoke with my debt settlement company about it....they are going to suspend my payments to them and finish settling my other accounts with the capital i have acquired with them.

Any suggestions on how to proceed or am I just screwed?

Diane from Indiana

I read every reply you have, and would add the following thoughts:

1. File a complaint with the bar association against the judge and the attorney. Perhaps, you can gather the names of many of the people who have been bulldozed like you, and have them do the same. The bar may pay attention if they get deluged with complaints. Corruption thrives in the dark, till brought out into the light.

2. I strongly agree with trying to get a network investigative reporter involved to help expose the "rats".

3. I have learned from a legal expert, and personal experience that you should expect to lose in the lower courts, and expect to win in the higher courts. So appeal!

4. You may also consider a Title 42 lawsuit against the judge. No government figure can hide behind there authority or badge if you can prove that they violated your rights and due process.

5. Was the judge a "magistrate" judge? If so, that gives you immediate grounds to appeal. They cannot make a ruling from the bench, but must make a recommendation to a senior judge. That happened to me on a case against me with the IRS. It was a Kangaroo court hearing that I lost. The judge was a Mag judge and made his ruling from the bench. I appealed it to the Circuit Court and won. I had several arguments, but the only one they ruled on , was the magist judge issue. I assume they didn't want to publish my other legal arguments for others to see.

They will continue with this "good ole boy scam" until some brave people step up and do something about it. Blessings to you.

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I am being sued by Midland too and I went to an attorney yesterday. I live in FL by the way. The attorney told me that the JDB's/creditors recently invited the local judges to some fancy lunch and conference to "teach" them about some BS issue relating to the "Creditor's" world. The JDB's are bribing the judges apparently.

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I am being sued by Midland too and I went to an attorney yesterday. I live in FL by the way. The attorney told me that the JDB's/creditors recently invited the local judges to some fancy lunch and conference to "teach" them about some BS issue relating to the "Creditor's" world. The JDB's are bribing the judges apparently.

Wow.  

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I am being sued by Midland too and I went to an attorney yesterday. I live in FL by the way. The attorney told me that the JDB's/creditors recently invited the local judges to some fancy lunch and conference to "teach" them about some BS issue relating to the "Creditor's" world. The JDB's are bribing the judges apparently.

Wow!, but this goes on all the time with other types of cases. It upsets me that, yeah sure, I get the lawyers are in court all the time and encounter these judges and clerks, but the obviousness of their relationship with the judges and the clerks is too much. I have seen it happen numerous times. It makes me very uncomfortable and I think these folks need to show professionalism, but I suppose that is asking too much. Although we are expected to show professionalism.

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I am being sued by Midland too and I went to an attorney yesterday. I live in FL by the way. The attorney told me that the JDB's/creditors recently invited the local judges to some fancy lunch and conference to "teach" them about some BS issue relating to the "Creditor's" world. The JDB's are bribing the judges apparently.

Wouldn't this be illegal on some levels?

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Well I can tell you this, through both my cases in the same court, there is one rent-a-lawyer that seems to be the one that handles most all the JDB cases.  At my last motion hearing, plaintiff WAS NOT present, meaning they did not contract with the rent-a-lawyer to appear on their behalf.  In the middle of me arguing my motion, the R-A-L jumped up, walked to the plaintiff table and began arguing for the un-represented plaintiff.  Totally unprofessional but her buddy the judge allowed her to do this for a while.  Let us try this and we’ll find ourselves with, at the very least a contempt charge and at the most, tackled by the bailiff for entering the area un-invited and thrown in jail.

 

This particular little sea hag (no disrespect to Seadragon) has her own preferred parking space right close to the front of the court house that requires a card to access the parking spaces.

 

No, no favorability at all… un-believable…

 

rt

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You are working with a debt settlement company, but you make to much to file BK? You might try a chapter 13 reorganization BK, you would still pay off your debts, but those unsecured ones like the JBD would go away.  You may qualify for that, go to the federal site, and do the ways and means test to find out.

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