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Treat CapOne as a JDB?

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I was speaking to someone about this forum and a question was put to me about CapOne's purchase of HSBC credit accounts last year. Specifically, if any of these accounts became the subject of a lawsuit, would one go about treating CapOne as you would any other debt buyer?


I'm not sure but I think that HSBC will be still issuing credit cards in the US and did not sell all of it's credit card portfolio to CapOne. Any thoughts?

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Cap1 would not be considered a JDB, but if you're referring to requesting proof that Cap1 acquired the particular HSBC account, it's a possibility.  However, I'm not sure how far you'd get with it.  First, Cap1 would more than likely have some HSBC credit card statements.  Second, I'm not sure they'd have an actual bill of sale such as the ones offered by JDBs.  Considering the fact that a credit card company is not a JDB, courts could very well give more weight to their claims.  But they still have to provide sufficient proof of the amount and that you owe it.


It sure doesn't hurt to try.  You need to do some research to see how courts have ruled on the issue.

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Guest usctrojanalum

Think AntiqueDave has a point and with the right judge/law department I think it could work.  I wouldn't say so much as treat them as a JDB, but without an affidavit or someone testifying at HSBC - the plaintiff would be hard pressed to have personal knowledge of the entire debt.  The only way Cap1 can really get around it is by only suing the defendant for purchases/payments/transactions made with Cap1 only.  Doubt they would do that though.

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IF your debt was in default at the time they purchased it that may cause a problem for them but the other thing is that even if it was not in default you can still chase them on the chain of ownership, how can a cap one affiant testify to what happened at HSBC

Not to hijack the OPs thread....


C1 did purchase an alleged HSBC account of mine and sent me a welcoming letter at some point last year.

I was informed they would be handling thi account from then on. (Although I have never heard from them since.


The interesting thing about this one is that the alleged HSBC account had been sued on by the OC and it had

been successfully defeated, pro se,  and was DISMISSED WITH PREJUDIICE in the court.


To me it would appear that all records were not transferred to C1, at least on this alleged account and not at the

point of the welcoming letter,


It would have had to be a bulk purchase and that says JDB.

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Unless this was a bank merger, they definitely deserve JDB status. The only difference would be if they purchased defaulted accounts or not, which I doubt they would do, but you never know. That's easy enough to figure out, just compare the date of the sale to the date on the bill of sale. You need this to establish their status. They probably bought the credit card operation outright, not a bulk purchase of accounts like JDBs buy. I remember reading this, you can Google it to see what actually took place. The angle you want to pursue is this....what procedures were in place at the time to make sure the account balances were accurate? What guarantees did they receive from HSBC stating the balances were accurate? (very important) Bet there weren't any and they never even looked. This isn't about you disputing charges under TILA, it's about them verifying what they bought. Ask for all the documentattion proving they bought your account and that it was properly maintained and transferred. Bet they won't give you a thing.

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If Cap One bought a HSBC account after default, they are considered a debt collector under FDCPA, which could get you some leverage.



Bridge v. Ocwen Fed. Bank, 2012 WL 1470146 (6th Cir.
Apr. 30, 2012)

The plaintiffs brought action against the defendant
mortgage lender, its assignee, and a loan servicer alleging
the defendants improperly failed to acknowledge payments
and engaged in improper collection practices in violation
of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA). The
defendants filed a motion to dismiss pursuant to Fed. R.
Civ. P. 12((6), arguing different exemptions from the
FDCPA. The district court dismissed the action, and the
plaintiff appealed. The appellate court found that the
creditor and loan servicer were "debt collectors" under the
FDCPA and that the term "debt collector" included any
non-originating debt holder that either acquired debt in
default or treated debt as if it were in default at the time of
acquisition. The court reasoned that holding otherwise
would allow those that acquire debt to simply assert that
the debt was not actually in default to avoid the scope of
the FDCPA while still pursuing the potential plaintiffs as if
they were debtors, the very people meant to be protected
by the FDCPA. Accordingly, the appellate court reversed
the holding of the district court and remanded the action
for further proceedings

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I wasn't suggesting that CapOne was a JDB literally, but as suggested previously, some of the same strategies that one would employ against a JDB might work here. Although I'm sure that any records transferred over were probably a lot more comprehensive than what they would transfer over to a JDB in a sale of CO accounts.


In looking at CapOne's SEC filings, they acquired "assets" from HSBC. I didn't go through the purchase and sale agreement line by line, but a quick glance referred to CRS accounts, i.e., their credit card receivables. However, there are also warranties and representations as they pertain to certain employee benefit plans, labor contracts, etc. of the CRS business. So it may have been a subsidiary of HSBC that was sold. Probably the the old Household Finance that became a part of HSBC 10-11 years ago.

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