ARS National Services, Inc / Citibank, are they a JDB or Assignee of debt?

[scarab]

Received a dunning letter from ARS National Services, Inc., PO Box 463023, Escondido, CA 92046-3023

 

It looks a LOT like this letter: http://www.creditinfocenter.com/community/topic/286881-should-i-settle-please-help/

 

 

You can see thier site at arsnational dot com

 

I am trying to decide if I should settle or not.  I don't have much time left to take them up on their 50 cents on the dollar offer.  May 20th is the deadline for them to receive payment.  For the first step, I am thinking of sending them a DV letter.  Thier first letter to me is dated April 30, 2013 and offers the 50% deal if I pay them by May 20. 

 

Yesturday (May 11) I received ANOTHER letter from ARS. This letter is dated May 8, 2013 and says they are authorized to accept the same 50% "in full settlement of the above referenced acount, provided your payment reaches this office by 05/13/2013.  Well this is pretty stupid.  Today is sunday, and May 13 is Monday.  I don't know how they thought I was going to pull that off, especially since I got the letter yesturday, not to mention the fact that this letter contradicts the April 30 letter (which had a 'due' date of May 20).

 

Looked up my credit report. It shows the Citibank charge off and some amout past due (not the full amount).  Does not say it was  sold or transferred, but it may be too early.  The most recently inquiry by Citibank was in May 2013, so this just happened, as I posted this May 12.

 

 

The confusing thing is that the sentence about making payments payable to says:

CITIBANK

PO Bbox 469100

Escondido, CA 92046-9100

 

Because this address is only a few PO boxes away from ARS's, it leads me to think ARS is cashing the checks even if they are made out to Citibank.

 

I searched this forum, but did not find anything really concrete.

http://www.creditinfocenter.com/community/topic/315454-citibankars-national/

 

 

I also found this thread:

http://www.creditinfocenter.com/community/topic/304567-settlement-letter-from-chase-telling-me-to-contact-ars-national-services-inc/

 

But I did not receive a letter from Citibank as the person in the above thread did from Chase.  I did just receive another statement from Citibank for this account.  Its just another statement showing even more interest accrued.

 

 

Does anyone know if ARS National Services, Inc does collections on behalf of Citibank (assigned debt) or do they purchase the debt (junk debt buyer or JDB) ?

 

Does Citibank sue for debt in Nevada?

[BV80]

@scarab

 

Is that the first letter you've received from ARS?  Does it contain the 30 day notice to request validation?

[scarab]

[EDIT:  See my Post #16]

 

letter dated April 30, 2013 was the first letter I ever received from ARS

 

Letter dated May 8 was the second letter I received from ARS.

Neither letter contains any notices about 30 days to validate

 

Here is what I have done so far:

 

1) think about settling.

 

2) today, I just faxed them a DV letter, and will mail them hard copy tomorrow.

 

 

Also, I forgot to mention, citibank/ARS are within the SOL for my state.

[BV80]

Their first letter should have contained the 1692g notice.  A DV is valid only if it's sent within 30 days of the first communication.  If they don't respond to your DV request, they'll argue that the April 30 letter was not their first communication.  It would be your word against theirs. 

 

If Citibank is still updating their entry on your CR, they still own the account.

[admin]

If Citibank is still updating their entry on your CR, they still own the account.

 

Not necessarily.  I've seen OCs continue to update status, even after charge off.  

[BV80]

Not necessarily.  I've seen OCs continue to update status, even after charge off.  

 

@admin

 

Yes, they can update after an account has been charged off.  But they cannot update after they've sold an account.  I should have been more specific.

[admin]

@BV80 - they can't?  I've seen that.  Is it illegal?

[BV80]

@BV80 - they can't?  I've seen that.  Is it illegal?

 

 @admin

 

Updating means you have an account for which you can report a monthly status.  If the account has been sold, the former creditor has no way of knowing the status of the account.

 

Their entry can remain on your CR, but they can't update an account they no longer own because it's not theirs to update.  The following is from Experian:

 

Your credit report reflects the history of a debt. If the original creditor sells the account to another lender, it would be shown in your credit report as “Transferred,” or “Sold to” and has a status of “charged off.”

 

This status indicates the original account is no longer the active account entry. That lender is not longer associated with the debt and will no longer provide updates on it. It remains in your credit report to provide a complete history of the debt.

 

http://www.experian.com/ask-experian/20120215-original-account-not-updated-when-debt-is-paid-through-collection-agency.html

[scarab]

Anyone know the answers to my first couple of questions?

 

1) Does ARS National Services, Inc do collections on behalf of Citibank (assigned debt) or do they purchase the debt (junk debt buyer aka JDB) ?

 

2) Does tend to Citibank sue, like Discover or Capital1?

[BTO429]

They could be assignee or they could have bought the account.

 

If their letter did not contain any of the 30 day right to validation did you ever think of filing a suit and putting a 1000 dollars in your pocket?

 

They should have informed you in the letter whether they were the assignee or the owner of the debt, that is misrepresenting the character of the debt. Now you have two violations for a suit.

 

I would send them a refusal to pay letter. Then file suit on them.

[admin]

@scarab

 

Anyone know the answers to my first couple of questions?

 

1) Does ARS National Services, Inc do collections on behalf of Citibank (assigned debt) or do they purchase the debt (junk debt buyer aka JDB) ?

 

2) Does tend to Citibank sue, like Discover or Capital1?

 

1. I don't know the answer to your question whether or not they are a JDB.  

 

2. Citibank definitely sues.  

[scarab]

I was thinking of calling ARS with the goal of finding out if they are an assignee or a JDB in this situation.

 

What specific questions should I ask them to find this out?

[BV80]

@BTO429

 

If their letter did not contain any of the 30 day right to validation did you ever think of filing a suit and putting a 1000 dollars in your pocket?

 

It would be the OP's word vs. the CA's word that the letter received was the first communication.

 

They should have informed you in the letter whether they were the assignee or the owner of the debt, that is misrepresenting the character of the debt. Now you have two violations for a suit.

 

No, it is not a misrepresentation of the character of the debt.  As you pointed out, an assignee can be collecting for the OC or a purchaser of the account.  So to claim to be an assignee is not a violation.

 

I would send them a refusal to pay letter. Then file suit on them.

 

The account is still within the SOL and still possibly owned by Chase. 

[BV80]

@scarab

 

I was thinking of calling ARS with the goal of finding out if they are an assignee or a JDB in this situation.

 

What specific questions should I ask them to find this out?

 

If it were me, I'd call Chase.  Ask them if they still own the account, and if they assigned it to ARS for collection.

[scarab]

Its Citibank.

 

I just called Citibank as you instructed.  I bypassed the automated phone system and talked to one of their service reps and told them I wanted to find out if this account was sold or transferred.  They said "so you would like to verify the status of this account?" I said yes.  They said please hold.

 

They put me on hold and after a few minutes, I heard a automated message saying that I should talk to ARS National Services, and that Citibank representatives cannot help me with this account, and to please hold while the call is transferred to ARS.

[scarab]

Also, I need to revise what I said before.

 

I was going through my "unpaid bills" file and discovered an EARLIER letter from ARS.  My mistake as I forgot about this letter. Its dated March 29, 2013.

 

This letter DOES contain the 30 day notice to validate, and the notice about getting a 1099C if a debt is forgiven for more than $600.

 

So, no potential for a lawsuit here, and the DV letter I faxed yesturday and mailed by CMRR today are both useless, as I am outside of the initial 30 day period.  I didn't really consider doing the lawsuit thing, as I am far too busy these days.  Last year I attempted to fight discover, but found some NV statutes that basically said I was stuck, so I settled with Discover and Guglielmo.  Given that ARS has done everything they are suppossed to according to the law, there isn't any suit potential here for me anyway.

 

For the account that is the subject of this thread, I just want to figure out if ARS was assigned this debt (and Citibank still owns it), or if they bought it as a JDB.

[BV80]

@scarab

 

Well, thir response was about as clear as mud, wasn't it? 

 

When was the account charged off?  If it was charged off recently, and considering that Citi made an inquiry on your CR this month, I'm leaning toward the belief that Citi still owns it.

 

If you decide not to do anything right now, you can wait to see if Citi updates their entry on your CR next month.  If they do, they still own the account.  Also, ARS may decide to respond to your DV.  Perhaps that would provide more information.

[scarab]

Yes, clear as mud.  They are getting smarter and not answering questions like this I guess.

 

A little history

 

Originally, in 2011, I made a deal with Citicards directly to pay this off on a schedule at low or no interest.  They sent a letter stating this, and they also said that if I was late 2 or more times, they would resume charging high interest.  I was late 1 time (by only 4 days) and they jacked up my interest rate, so I got mad and stopped paying them anything.  I then waited for them to make me an offer to settle this. 

 

 

 

I pulled my CR again yesterday.  It says for the Citi cards entry:

Account was charged off, $2,XXX past due as of May 2013. 

 

 

This is far below the total balance.  The amount reported may be different due to the payment arrangement I originally had (as I mentioned above).  Not sure why they report it this way to the credit bureaus.

 

 

Account History:
Charge Off as of May 2013, Apr 2013, Mar 2013, Feb 2013,
Jan 2013, Dec 2012, Nov 2012, Oct 2012, Sep 2012, Mar 2012

 

 

 

Citicards pulled my report in May 2013.

I see other inquiries from Citi, but I have a mortgage as well.  I wonder if Citi mortgage shares reports with Citicards

 

 

I checked and ARS is licensed in my state to collect.

 

I have not seen any inquiries by ARS on my CR. 

 

 

Note that I froze my credit history (along with my spouse's) early last year with all 3 credit bureaus.

[usagi555]

Anyone know the answers to my first couple of questions?

 

1) Does ARS National Services, Inc do collections on behalf of Citibank (assigned debt) or do they purchase the debt (junk debt buyer aka JDB) ?

 

2) Does tend to Citibank sue, like Discover or Capital1?

 

1) From what you described, it sounds as though ARS is not a JDB, but I'm not aware of how they operate, so take that as you will.

 

2) Citibank sued me, but don't worry.  You're thinking about this stuff now.  I was totally unprepared when they sued me, and I won.  And things are going to get much more difficult over the next few months for Citi when it sues people. 

[scarab]

Thank you for sharing your experience usagi.

 

However, I am at a disadvantage.  Last year, when Discover ( Guguliemo and associates) sued me, I joined this forum to learn how to fight them. I answered theirs suit with a bunch of denials for each claim they stated.  I then went to a local attorney to get help, and he showed me a Nevada Revised Statute that basically says that if the original creditor sues, they will win PERIOD. 

 

http://www.creditinfocenter.com/community/topic/312052-im-gonna-get-sued-by-discover-guglielmo/page-5#entry1175783

 

 

So, fighting citibank will be a waste of time, and I will have to settle. 

 

I just want to be sure that ARS is not a JDB (they were assigned the debt). 

 

If they ARE a JDB, then I WILL fight or settle for 10cents on the dollar. 

 

If ARS is NOT a JDB and is collecting on behalf of citibank, then I will probably settle but am not sure on this yet.

 

Also, I have less time nowadays as I have a job, whereas last year I did not.

[admin]

However, I am at a disadvantage.  Last year, when Discover ( Guguliemo and associates) sued me, I joined this forum to learn how to fight them. I answered theirs suit with a bunch of denials for each claim they stated.  I then went to a local attorney to get help, and he showed me a Nevada Revised Statute that basically says that if the original creditor sues, they will win PERIOD. 

 

Boo.  

 

So, fighting citibank will be a waste of time, and I will have to settle. 

I disagree.  Totally.  Heartedly.  

[admin]

http://www.creditinfocenter.com/community/topic/312052-im-gonna-get-sued-by-discover-guglielmo/page-5#entry1175783

So you gave up?  This attorney gave you bad advice, IMHO.  

[scarab]

At the time, I settled for 60 cents on the dollar.  The attorney I talked to told me that Discover/Guglielmo did not have to file very much to win their case against me (see what I said in my post that I cited above).  The attorney said that basically they just need to file copies of the account statements, and they would win based on that.   Given what NRS 97A.160 says, he appeared to be correct.

 

 

What is your take?  Why do you think I got bad advice, and what do you think I should have done differently?

 

 

Also, someone PM'ed me a very interesting case against Citibank, though its in a different state than me.

[admin]

@scarab - You just don't know if he is correct.  I don't know the facts of your case, but you could possibly have the statements thrown out as not authenticated.   Also, they would need to provide all the statements to show how much you actually owe.  Sixty percent also seems kinda high.  

 

I find it difficult to believe that Nevada is so different from other states in that a creditor's case is so open and shut.  

[scarab]

I know its been a while, but I thought it would be courteous to update you all and for anyone in the future who finds this thread.

 

In short, I mailed a DV letter to ARS, and I sent it CMRR.  One trick I picked up on this forum was to write on the outside of the envelope "Regarding payment" above the address, so they would be more likely to accept the envelope and sign for it.

 

I received back the CMRR card.

 

I haven't heard anything from ARS since I received my CMRR back.  I did get another statement from Citibank saying I owed even more money of course (more interest).  When I call the citibank phone number and enter my SSN so the computer system can find my account, it immediately says I need to call ARS and it forwards my call to ARS (at which point, I just hang up).

 

Interesting that ARS hasn't even sent me any kind of validation.  They sent nothing at all.