CA did not validate

[knitster]

I apologize up front if this is a stupid question.  Im a bit confused.

I send dv letter to ca  cert. mail.  About 2 weeks after they received my letter  they reported to credit bureau without

ever responding or validating debt.  This made my score drop 13 pts!!!!

Im confused as to what to do next.  Do I contact CB to try to have removed or contact ca and tell them they are in violation of fdcpa

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

[willingtocope]

If what they reported to the CRAs is "In Dispute", they did what they're required to do.

[knitster]

I thought they werent allowed to report to cra when you ask for dv.

[knitster]

in dispute is not on the report

[willingtocope]

If its already on your report, they are required to report that the status is "in dispute".  It might take up to 30 days to get updated.

 

On the other hand, unless you get your report directly from the CRA, its possible you're not seeing current information.

[knitster]

About 2 weeks after they received my letter  they reported to credit bureau without

ever responding or validating debt.  This made my score drop 13 pts!!!!

Im confused as to what to do next.  Do I contact CB to try to have removed or contact ca and tell them they are in violation know

 

I receive alerts when credit score drops.....thats how I know when it was reported.  I check my score weekly.

Does anyone know what I do next?

[admin]

Dispute with the credit bureaus as "not mine".

[Torden]

Based on OP's statement, they reported to CRAs ... AFTER receiving his DV.  Now is that legally a dispute?  If the DV letter says "dispute", it's clear.  My question to all is, does the DV imply dispute for the purpose of reporting to CRAs requires the entry be flagged as disputed?  If so, we have a violation of FCRA.

[BV80]

Did you state that you disputed the debt?  If you did, then if a CA/JDB reports to the credit bureaus AFTER receiving notice of the dispute, they must report the debt as disputed.   I didn't find any IN or 7th Circuit Court of Appeals cases that have made this ruling, but the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals has addressed it.

 

f a debt collector elects to communicate `credit information' about a consumer, it must not omit a piece of information that is always material, namely, that the consumer has disputed a particular debt. Wilhelm v. Credico, Inc., 519 F.3d 416, 418 (8th Cir.2008).

[knitster]

I sent a dv letter which is what I thought I was suppose to do...now not only have they reported to credit bureau without ever responding to dv letter but now after reading posts here Im really worried I may have just caused myself a lawsuit.  Completely confused at this point. 

 

Maybe I should just get a lawyer.  Apparently I have no clue what Im doing!

[Credator]

I apologize up front if this is a stupid question.  Im a bit confused.

I send dv letter to ca  cert. mail.  About 2 weeks after they received my letter  they reported to credit bureau without

ever responding or validating debt.  This made my score drop 13 pts!!!!

Im confused as to what to do next.  Do I contact CB to try to have removed or contact ca and tell them they are in violation of fdcpa

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

I am not aware of any protection a DV letter provides for preventing the reporting of derogatory information to a CRA. If the DV letter clearly stated the debt was in dispute and the CA then reported the derogatory information without notice to the CRA that the debt was disputed then it might make sense to run that information past a competent consumer attorney to see if the CA has violated the FDCPA and/or a state statute.

 

FAIK There is no requirement in the FDCPA that requires a CA to respond to a DV letter if, for example, they cease collections efforts. Is the reporting of a derogatory to a CRA considered a collection effort in any jurisdiction?

 

Posters here may be able to better assist the OP if the OP could explain why they sent a DV letter and what they were trying to accomplish by sending it. I have never had a DV letter cause me harm but I suppose it could cause harm to someone if used without a proper plan or a misguided plan.

 

A DV letter is not a talisman to make a CA run away or prevent a lawsuit nor is it a reliable genesis for a lawsuit from my experience. I don't recall any specific interplay with credit reporting from use of DV letters but to be honest I've been a bit preoccupied with litigation and not as focused on my credit report/score as I have been in the past.

 

Based on OP's statement, they reported to CRAs ... AFTER receiving his DV.  Now is that legally a dispute?  If the DV letter says "dispute", it's clear.  My question to all is, does the DV imply dispute for the purpose of reporting to CRAs requires the entry be flagged as disputed?  If so, we have a violation of FCRA.

I seem to recall that it is likely an FCRA violation but one that doesn't have a private right of action since the disputed information did not flow through the CRA first. A competent attorney familiar with FDCPA/FCRA/state statutes should be able to sort this out for the OP.

[BV80]

I seem to recall that it is likely an FCRA violation but one that doesn't have a private right of action since the disputed information did not flow through the CRA first. A competent attorney familiar with FDCPA/FCRA/state statutes should be able to sort this out for the OP.

 

 

@Credator

 

A dispute via a DV is not the same as a credit report dispute.  A DV dispute simply disputes the amount, the creditor, or the debt in general.   It has nothing to do with your CR because sometimes the CA/JDB isn't reporting on your CR. 

 

A CR dispute is based upon information in an entry that's being reported.

[Credator]

@Credator

 

A dispute via a DV is not the same as a credit report dispute.  A DV dispute simply disputes the amount, the creditor, or the debt in general.   It has nothing to do with your CR because sometimes the CA/JDB isn't reporting on your CR. 

 

A CR dispute is based upon information in an entry that's being reported.

Correct, a DV letter dispute is not a CRA dispute nor is it a furnisher dispute of a CRA database entry.

Not sure where in my post that I indicated it was.

 

The part of my post you quoted was in response to the following post:

Based on OP's statement, they reported to CRAs ... AFTER receiving his DV.  Now is that legally a dispute?  If the DV letter says "dispute", it's clear.  My question to all is, does the DV imply dispute for the purpose of reporting to CRAs requires the entry be flagged as disputed?  If so, we have a violation of FCRA.

 

If the DV letter contained a dispute of debt and the CA later reported to the CRA without noticing the dispute I believe that would constitute a violation of the FCRA. But that is not an FCRA violation with a private right of action. I would understand this violation to fall under §1681s-2(a) which has no private right of action.

 

A consumer dispute filed with a CRA about an entry in their CR where a furnisher in turn verifies inaccurate information about the consumer dispute back to the CRA would appear to be a violation of §1681s-2( b ) which has a limited private right of action.

 

Must dispute with the CRA first to preserve a private right of action AFAIK.

 

My experience tells me the furnishers happily violate §1681s-2(a) by putting known inaccurate information in a consumer credit report (like failing to include a dispute notice) and when the consumer disputes with the CRA and the CRA queries the furnisher to verify they magically add the "consumer dispute" to the CR to deftly avoid the private right of action under §1681s-2( b ). YMMV

[BV80]

If the DV letter contained a dispute of debt and the CA later reported to the CRA without noticing the dispute I believe that would constitute a violation of the FCRA.

 

@Credator

 

It's not a violation of the FCRA.  It's a violation of the FDCPA.  That was what I meant about sending a dispute via a DV request.

[Credator]

@BV80

 

@Credator

 

It's not a violation of the FCRA.  It's a violation of the FDCPA.  That was what I meant about sending a dispute via a DV request.

 

Yep, it is a violation of the FCRA as I recently explained to an attorney that was unfamiliar with the FCRA. (This might be an good read on the subject for those with further interest http://www.buckleysandler.com/uploads/36/doc/buckleysandler_mcginn_rooney_article-2.pdf )

 

As it is not critical to the OP's questions I suppose we can agree to disagree about the non-private right of action FCRA violation that occurs under §1681s-2(a) when a furnisher puts inaccurate information (like failing to notice a dispute from a consumer) in a consumer CRA file as I described in this thread and I have experienced.

 

§1681s-2(a) Duty of furnishers of information to provide accurate information

...

(3) Duty to provide notice of dispute

If the completeness or accuracy of any information furnished by any person to any consumer reporting agency is disputed to such person by a consumer, the person may not furnish the information to any consumer reporting agency without notice that such information is disputed by the consumer.

 

As for any current, future or potential FDCPA/FCRA/state statute or other violations I continue to suggest that the OP should consider whether or not they should consult a competent consumer attorney to discuss their rights.

[knitster]

Posters here may be able to better assist the OP if the OP could explain why they sent a DV letter and what they were trying to accomplish by sending it. I have never had a DV letter cause me harm but I suppose it could cause harm to someone if used without a proper plan or a misguided plan.

 

 

I received a letter from a CA.. I had 30 days to dipute the debt   sent dv  letter cert  mail..... they did not respond.....  they signed for for letter so I know when they received it and then 2 weeks later without ever validating debt  they reported to credit bureau ... in collections.... score dropped 13 pts because of this. My question was.....are they allowed to report to c bureau after they receive the dv letter but did not respond to it.

 

I thought it was against the law for them to report this to cb without validating.

[BV80]

@Credator

 

I think you're misunderstanding me.  I agree about 1681s-2(a).  There is no private right of action under that section of the FCRA.  

 

A dispute in a DV letter does not fall under 1681s-2(a).   It falls under 1692g of the FDCPA.  The reason is because not all CAs are reporting to the CRAs.  If a CA is not reporting, then you can't be disputing a TL that doesn't exist.

 

If the CA is reporting and updating, and you state in your DV that you dispute the debt, the CA must report the debt as disputed the next time they update on your CR. 

 

BUT, stating "I dispute the debt"  in a DV does not subject the CA to the requirement under 1681s-2(a) that  they review a TL and report the results back to you.

 

Look at the very section of the FCRA that you quoted:

 

If the completeness or accuracy of any information furnished by any person to any consumer reporting agency is disputed to such person by a consumer...

 

That shows that you have to specifically dispute what is on the credit report.  To dispute directly with the furnisher under 1681s-2(a), you have to do as that sections states:  Dispute the accuracy or completeness of any information in a TL.

 

"I dispute this debt" in a DV is not a dispute of the accuracy or completeness of information in a TL on a CR.   Therefore, you're not disputing under 1681s-2(a). 

[BV80]

@knitster

 

You keep repeating your original post, but that doesn't really help us.

 

1.  In your DV request to the CA, did you state that you disputed the debt?

 

2.  If you did state that you disputed the debt, did the CA include in their report to the credit reporting agencies that your debt is disputed?

[knitster]

@knitster

 

You keep repeating your original post, but that doesn't really help us.

 

1.  In your DV request to the CA, did you state that you disputed the debt?

 

2.  If you did state that you disputed the debt, did the CA include in their report to the credit reporting agencies that your debt is disputed?

[knitster]

Nevermind.  At this point Im more confused than ever.  Ive explained this every way I know how. I sent the letter asking to validate the debt, your typical dv letter.   Thats all I can say.   My head is spinning from this post now

[knitster]

Im repeating myself because I have yet to get an answer.   Completely lost ...

[Credator]

@BV80

@Credator

 

...

 

Look at the very section of the FCRA that you quoted:

 

If the completeness or accuracy of any information furnished by any person to any consumer reporting agency is disputed to such person by a consumer...

 

That shows that you have to specifically dispute what is on the credit report.  To dispute directly with the furnisher under 1681s-2(a), you have to do as that sections states:  Dispute the accuracy or completeness of any information in a TL.

 

"I dispute this debt" in a DV is not a dispute of the accuracy or completeness of information in a TL on a CR.   Therefore, you're not disputing under 1681s-2(a). 

 

@BV80

 

I understand what you are saying and I believe you understand what I am saying. Of course our differing opinions don't matter as case law, if it exists, would be the guide for the applicable jurisdiction.

 

Your take is that the timing of the consumer dispute must be after the furnisher provides information that they know to be erroneous to the CRA (creating or modifying a TL). I don't find your timing requirement to be clearly stated in 1681s-2(a). Perhaps you are inferring such a timing requirement.

 

From what I have read the purpose of the non-private right of action in was to prevent consumer abuse of furnishers. I don't see the requirement or the benefit to give the furnisher two shots at the consumer's TL before an agency is allowed to step in and determine the furnishers policies are whacked. JMO

 

If the debt was disputed by the consumer (in A DV letter or just written notice like a FCBA billing dispute) prior to the reporting (without proper dispute notice) to a CRA you suggest that is not a violation under the FCRA. I understand but am unable to agree.

[Credator]

Nevermind.  At this point Im more confused than ever.  Ive explained this every way I know how. I sent the letter asking to validate the debt, your typical dv letter.   Thats all I can say.   My head is spinning from this post now

 

@knitster

 

I posted in #11

 

If the DV letter clearly stated the debt was in dispute and the CA then reported the derogatory information without notice to the CRA that the debt was disputed then it might make sense to run that information past a competent consumer attorney to see if the CA has violated the FDCPA and/or a state statute.

 

and

 

Posters here may be able to better assist the OP if the OP could explain why they sent a DV letter and what they were trying to accomplish by sending it.

 

Without context I am not able to help much (my detractors might say even with context)

 

Why did you send a DV letter? Because someone suggested you have to do that? Not knowing what you are trying to accomplish makes it hard to understand how to respond (at least for me.)

 

It might make a big difference in the quality of responses if posters knew, for example, that you are urgently trying to improve your credit score versus being very concerned about avoiding a lawsuit at all costs.

 

As for whether a furnisher/CA can provide consumer CR information while not responding to a DV letter I am not aware of a law or statute that would prevent the reporting of accurate consumer information to a CRA. I don't know many jurisdictions laws but it seems reasonable to me for a furnisher to report accurate information to a CRA at any time.

[BV80]

@knitster 

 

Let's take this one step at a time.

 

You stated that you sent a DV.  From  what you've said, the CA reported after they received your DV.

 

I asked if you disputed the debt in your DV.  Some people merely ask the CA to validate the debt.  Others include that they dispute the debt.

 

Did you include a statement in your DV that you disputed the debt????   You really need to answer that question.

[BV80]

@Credator

 

 

I understand what you are saying and I believe you understand what I am saying. Of course our differing opinions don't matter as case law, if it exists, would be the guide for the applicable jurisdiction.

 

Your take is that the timing of the consumer dispute must be after the furnisher provides information that they know to be erroneous to the CRA (creating or modifying a TL). I don't find your timing requirement to be clearly stated in 1681s-2(a). Perhaps you are inferring such a timing requirement.

 

 

I'm not referring to the timing.  Rather, I'm referring to the method of dispute. 

 

It doesn't matter if a CA is reporting or not.  It depends upon what one has stated in their DV request.  As I stated before, if you merely include a phrase that says "I dispute the debt", that IS a dispute under the FDCPA.  If they're reporting or choose to report, they must include the fact that you've disputed.

 

However, it's not an FCRA dispute because it doesn't meet the guidelines of a dispute under that law.  That goes back to 1681s-2(a) which provides that you have to dispute the "completeness or accuracy" of a TL. 

 

That's the method to which I'm referring.  You have to refer to an existing TL on your CR and dispute something about that TL.

 

We have to remember that the FDCPA and the FCRA are 2 separate laws.  What may be a violation under the FDCPA is not necessarily a violation under the FCRA.

 

Let me try 2 examples:

 

1.  BV80 gets a dunning letter from a CA.   The CA is NOT reporting on my CR.  I send CA a DV requesting validation and include that I dispute the debt. 

 

The next month CA reports and includes the fact that I've disputed the debt.  They've followed FDCPA rules.  But they have no duty to review the TL that they just now placed on your CR.   You didn't dispute the TL because at the time you sent your DV letter, there was no TL to dispute.

 

Example #2:

 

2.  BV80 gets a dunning letter from a CA.  That CA does have an entry on my credit report.  I send CA a DV requesting validation and include that I dispute the debt.  The next time the CA updates, they include that the debt is disputed by the consumer.

 

That CA has followed the rules under the FDCPA because they included that the debt was disputed.  BUT, again, they are not required to review their TL.  Why?   Because my dispute was an FDCPA dispute.  It did not meet the guidelines of an FCRA dispute because I did not state that I disputed their TL.  I did not dispute the accuracy or completeness of the TL.

 

If there is a TL on your CR, but you merely state in a DV letter that you dispute the debt, you haven't met the guidelines of a dispute under the FCRA because you didn't even mention the TL and what it is about the TL that you're disputing.

 

In reference to case law, there is none that I can find.  There's case law regarding CAs who failed to report a debt as disputed under the FDCPA, but there is no case law that I know of that supports that a simple dispute in a FDCPA DV request is the same as disputing under the FCRA.