bored7one4

DV or dispute with bureau new collections that just reported on my credit report?

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Where did anyone claim otherwise?  We continually inform consumers that an OC no longer has anything to do with an account once it's been sold.

 

There are posts in this thread stating not to speak with a CA, and only the OC.

 

 

On this site, we differentiate between a CA and a JDB.  When referring to a CA, we're usually referring to a debt collector who is collecting for the OC because the OC still owns the account.

 

 

 

My employees do not sign anything.  The only individuals in my organization that are allowed to sign anything, including a settlement letter, are my Attorneys, and they do read every word before they do so.  The license to practice law depends on that.  Sometimes it's actually frustrating when I can't get them to put a rush on a request for exactly this reason, but being correct is better than being fast.

 

 

 

I'm not the least bit impressed that attorneys rather than employees sign the affidavits.  Those attorneys are nothing more than debt collectors whose salaries depend upon revenue generated from debt collection.

 

 

However we include the chargeoff statement and original application when we file suit.

 

You're able to provide the original application in every case?  Somehow I doubt that.

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One person's opinion.  I'm sure you have heard of activist judges before.  I would like to see what proof he has to back up such a ludicrous statement.   

 

Well, I guess his personal experience, for starters.  And here is more about NY debt collection.

 

To compile its research, the New Economy Project obtained data from the New York State Office of Court Administrators covering 195,105 debt collection cases filed against New Yorkers in 2011. When debt buyers, as opposed to original creditors, sued alleged debtors, the default judgment rate around the state was 62 percent, the report found.

The advocacy group also picked 90 cases at random and reviewed them in detail. It found a series of irregularities in those cases.

"Not a single one went to trial or was resolved on the merits," the advocacy group says.

In 9 out of 10 of those cases, an employee or debt buyer who had no connection to the original creditor testified to facts that only an original creditor could know, the report says. And in 4 out of 10 cases, the paperwork was filed out of order -- the affidavit in support of a default judgment was completed before the defendant's time to answer the lawsuit had expired, an easy-to-spot procedural error.

Nevertheless, the court rejected the improper paperwork in only 2 of the 90 cases; and in nearly every case where the debt collector sought a default judgment, it was granted.

Lawsuit targets never find out about the case because plaintiffs routinely engage in so-called "sewer service," by hiring firms that fail to properly serve notice to defendants that they have been sued and should appear in court, the report alleges.

It also claims that minorities suffer disproportionately from debt collection robosigning. In the 10 zip codes with the highest default judgment rates in New York, 75 percent of the population is nonwhite.

Pindell said his application for a $4,500 SBA loan has been completely sidetracked by two court judgments which now appear on his credit report. Both cases were filed by Midland Funding -- one for $802, and one for $1,042 -- though he believes they are different lawsuits representing the same underlying claim.

"I spent five days going back and forth between the two courts trying to find out about this. No one could tell me why there were two cases," he said. "It's still a little mind-boggling...towards the middle of this month I should know, when their lawyers get the paperwork to me, if there is any paperwork."

The SBA is reconsidering his loan application now, he said, and he’s hopeful it will be approved soon.

Greg Call, senior vice president and general counsel, Midland Credit Management, said in an e-mail that the firm could not comment on individual cases, but said the firm follows proper legal procedures.

"We are confident in our processes, including those related to notification of the debt and working with the consumer to satisfy his or her obligation to repay it," he said.

He added that lawsuits are a last resort for the firm, and said only 5 percent of accounts reach litigation.

"We reach out to consumers multiple times on the phone and through the mail. Unfortunately, if they choose not to respond, the only option we are left with is legal action," he said.

But Shin, the consumer advocate attorney, says the U.S. court system has been essentially turned into an arm of the debt collection industry -- and we are all paying the price. The “glaring and pervasive” errors her group found show that the collection industry has a cavalier attitude about the legal system, she said, and that courts are making "rubber stamp" judgments.

"This really is part of an assembly-line process," she said. "They are so sure of their sewer service, so sure of their default judgments, from A to Z, this is how they do it."

Follow Bob Sullivan and The Red Tape Chronicles on Facebook orTwitter.

 

 

 

  Yes, there are activist judges, but particularly in small claims or district court, most judges are pro-business. Most collectors are used to getting default judgments, and they develop a close association with the court system.

 

Also, legislatures in red states, are becoming increasingly pro-business and anti-consumer, making it easier for the collectors.  AZ debt collectors thought it was getting to hard to win in court, so they got the legislature to make it easier.http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/gov-jan-brewer-signs-new-law-takes-de

 

Who do think has more power and influence in state legislatures and in courts where the judiciary is elected and solicits campaign contribution-- consumers or your industry?

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again, anecdotal incidents of getting the wrong person.  You seem to actually think this is something other than a tiny percentage of lawsuits.  It isn't.

 

Well, you actually need to read the articles.  It's not  just wrong persons.  It's lack of documentation.  It's steam-rolling debtors in court.

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Again, we provide validation in discovery.  We don't sue on just an affidavit.  Are their outfits that do?  Yes, and hopefully they will called to task for it.  Aside from it being the right way to handle the situation, it will eliminate a lot of the competition out there. :-)

 

Yes, of course, PC, your company does it right.  We have your assertion for that.

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http://www.insidearm.com/daily/debt-buying-topics/debt-buying/big-banks-facing-investigation-over-debt-collection-account-information-reuters/

 

You're the only bottom feeder who doesn't purchase wrong information; is that what you're saying?  

Bottom feeder.  Nice........I wondered how long it would take for the personal attacks to begin.  Very typical.

 

I can see from the posts in this thread that very few of you, if any, are even remotely interested in hearing an opposing viewpoint.  That is fine, I figured I would offer it anyway.  I didn't expect anyone to listen. You can keep believing that debt collectors are the bad guys if that makes you feel any better about your lack of personal responsibility when not paying debts you incurred.  There is a reason people get into financial trouble.  Poor planning and lack of financial sense.  But if course, that's someone else's fault.  Certainly not yours, you are the innocent victims who borrowed money and then failed to pay it back as agreed. "Keep making excuses for your own mistakes and lay the blame on other people" doesn't sound like the best way to live to me.

 

 

Keep believing that when someone calls you or sends you a letter stating that you owe a bill that THEY are the ones who are in the wrong.  If that makes you sleep better at night, so be it.  But understand this......as much as you all have zero trust in debt collectors, they have zero trust in you.  There's an old axiom in the debt collection industry.  The first rule of collections.....debtors lie.  And they do. I have called people AT WORK who have told me they are unemployed. So when you are accusing CAs or JDBs of being dishonest, think about your own actions and where the real culpability lies for your unpaid debts. Not a comfortable thought is it?

 

I came here to offer you all insight as to how and why collectors and debt buyers operate.  But, as expected, you all think you have all the answers.  And that's fine.  I'm not going to try and change your minds.  You obviously have it all figured out.  That's why you are on a forum trying to figure out how to NOT pay what you owe. The next time you get sued for non-payment of a debt and your wages end up getting garnished or a lien is put on your home or you bank account is hit with a levy, I hope that sense of self-righteousness and feeling as though you are a victim keeps you warm at night.

 

Maybe if you all spent more time trying to figure out how to properly handle your finances instead of figuring out how to get out of paying your obligations, you would be much better off.  But hey, what do I know?  I'm just the bottom-feeder, right?  Keep believing that and your fortunes will never change.  And you will always need bad advice from people on boards like this.  It's a pretty sad commentary actually.

 

I honestly wish you all the best of luck.

 

But unless your perspectives change, you will most definitely need it. And then some.  That's okay though.  You are not alone.  There is a growing culture of entitlement attitudes and lack of personal accountability in this country.  I don't know when it started or how, but it has grown by leaps and bounds in the last decade or so......

 

Take care.

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You don't think we haven't heard your story before? 

 

"I'm the honest debt collector. I have all of the necessary documents, and they are all accurate.  My employees are honest, educated, and well-trained.  They would never step outside the boundries of the law and violate the rights of consumers.  Every statement in every affidavit I submit is true, and no one in my offices would ever sign one without reading every word.  Every signer has personal knowledge about everything."

 

Entitlement?   You don't believe debt buyers feel entitled?  You feel entitled to money you did absolutely nothing to earn. 

 

Yes, your business is legal.  I'm all for the free-market system, but just as you berate debtors for a lack of personal responsibility, the same applies to your business.  When you chose to buy debts, you chose to take a risk.  Sometimes the risk pays off and other times, it doesn't.  But the point is that you chose to take it.  Therefore, you have absolutely no right to whine and blame others if your choice doesn't result in a pay day.

 

You bought that debt for pennies on the dollar, and sue for the full amount.  Then when a consumer dares to challenge you, the consumer becomes the bad guy.   "It doesn't matter that I only paid $500 for that $5000 debt.  It doesn't matter that I did absolutely nothing to earn the money; I deserve every dime.  And of all the nerve!   That mean old consumer wants me to prove I own the debt!"

 

You lump all debtors together.  I would think that even a debt collector knows that there's more than one reason a person may go into debt, so all debtors do not fit into one category.

 

On the other hand, all debt buyers are the same because you all go into the business for one reason and one reason only:  To make as much money as possible by doing as little as possible.

 

Have a nice life.

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Again, we provide validation in discovery.  We don't sue on just an affidavit.  Are their outfits that do?  Yes, and hopefully they will called to task for it.  Aside from it being the right way to handle the situation, it will eliminate a lot of the competition out there. :-)

 

You mention "we" quite a lot. Now, I don't expect you to tell who "we" is, but if "we" are in Colorado, I cannot recall a single reputable collection agency or debt buyer located in Colorado, particularly one who does decent volume. On the other hand, some of the most egregious violators in the industry operate out of Colorado. I suspect you fit into the latter.

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'

 

 

 

.

 

Maybe if you all spent more time trying to figure out how to properly handle your finances instead of figuring out how to get out of paying your obligations, you would be much better off.  You will always need bad advice from people on boards like this.  It's a pretty sad commentary actually

 

THIS FORUM EXISTS TO PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF DEBTORS,  AND JUDGING FROM THE MANY DEBTORS WHO HAVE HAVE HAD THEIR DEBT COLLECTION LAWSUITS DISMISSED, IT IS REMARKABLY SUCCESSFUL.

 

 There is a growing culture of entitlement attitudes 

 

NOW WHERE I HAVE HEARD THAT PHRASE "CULTURE OF ENTITLEMENT?"  DOES'N'T IT SOUND LIKE THAT "47%" COMMENT THAT GOV. ROMNEY MADE WHEN HE RAN FOR PRESIDENT, AND THEN WENT ON TO SAY HE WAS "COMPLETELY WRONG" TO SAY THAT? THE REAL "CULTURE OF ENTITLEMENT" IS AMONG THE WEALTHY AND THE POWERFUL.

 

and lack of personal responsibility.

 

THERE IS A LACK OF CORPORATE AND PROFESSIONAL RESPONSIBILITY IN THIS NATION, AND A DISDAIN FOR THOSE WHO HOLD PROFESSIONALS AND CORPORATIONS  ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS IN COURTS OF LAW.

 

 

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Notice that Professional Collector ended his last message with "Take Care", as though he's said all he going to say and we won't hear from him again.

 

I wonder if that means Jared will be back tomorrow?

 

First of all.... wow! PC thank you for taking the time. That was really kind of you to share your info. 

 

Although, I have learned over the last few weeks that they're not interested in it. Which is unfortunate. 

 

Willing, do you ever take off the tin foil hat? I mean seriously... you're doing it again. Except now you are insinuating that I'm posing as people. 

 

You know what cracks me up the most... is that most of the "staff" here paints debt collectors in this evil light and makes consumers think that if they verbally communicate with one that they'll be "abused". When in reality, you guys act no different than how you portray them.

 

And Willing, just so you know, I may be back tomorrow if I can find the time... but if I'm not and someone else that actually knows what they're talking about happens to comment on this thread.... it's not me... kthx 

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First of all.... wow! PC thank you for taking the time. That was really kind of you to share your info. 

 

And Willing, just so you know, I may be back tomorrow if I can find the time... but if I'm not and someone else that actually knows what they're talking about happens to comment on this thread.... it's not me... kthx 

 

I'm flattered!  Did you run to your computer as soon as you got home?  How was your trip?  Business or pleasure?  In your case, probably hard to tell the difference, huh?

 

Okay, pure coincidence.  Somebody just happened to show up and fill in for you while you were gone.

 

I will admit, I'm speculating here, but I'm guessing you attended a meeting of all the debt fixers that were spawned by the "biggest collection agency" in Colorado.  How does this actually work?  The CA has the contracts with the OC and JDB, and you debt fixers work those, or do you wait for a "client" to contact you and then you take the accounts to the CA?

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I'm flattered!  Did you run to your computer as soon as you got home?  How was your trip?  Business or pleasure?  In your case, probably hard to tell the difference, huh?

 

Probably been at the debt collector's conference in San Diego. He is a debt collector, after all.

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We have never told anyone to send a cease and desist if a debt is still within the SOL.

 

 

Really? What do you think prompted me to post here to begin with?  

 

This is my first post here (# 17) - http://www.creditinfocenter.com/community/topic/320512-talked-to-collection-company-before-reading-how-to-handle/

 

And it had to do with what you claim you guys "never tell anyone". 

 

These adversarial moves are incited by the "staff" here constantly without consideration of the consumers goals or an explanation of any of the cons or possible reactions they may expose themselves to. 

 

Maybe if it's all lumped together you will see that... 

 

Willingtocope said - "Since the debt has been sold to a JDB, my personal advice is send them a "Cease and Desist" letter pointing out that you never did business with them and that they either need to prove otherwise or get off your credit reports, otherwise you'll be forced to pursue your legal options." 

 

Post 47 - http://www.creditinfocenter.com/community/topic/320644-pentagroup-ignored-dv-letter-in-march-now-sending-documents-in-june/page-3

 

Admin said - "I'd send a DV just to see what they say.  if they don't respond, then you can send a C&D letter."

 

Post 58 - http://www.creditinfocenter.com/community/topic/320644-pentagroup-ignored-dv-letter-in-march-now-sending-documents-in-june/page-3

 

Admin said - "@sundevilatx - You need to make this request in writing and tell them that all calls are inconvenient."

 

Post 16 - http://www.creditinfocenter.com/community/topic/320512-talked-to-collection-company-before-reading-how-to-handle/

 

Tomntex said - "Our goal here is to help each member resolve their problems. Most of the time that means as a Pro se fighting for themselfs. We do not in MOST cases advocate paying these leeches, but to sue them and win." 

 

 

Willingtocope said - "If you have the full amount Crap 1 says you owe, call them back and tell them it is your personal policy NOT to deal with collection agencies and if they want paid, they'll deal with you directly or take you to court and you'll let the judge decide..." 

 

Post 25 - http://www.creditinfocenter.com/community/topic/320512-talked-to-collection-company-before-reading-how-to-handle/page-2

 

And all of these are stated just in the threads I've participated in. Not including this one!!! 

 

Now here is something interesting that also doesn't line up with your claim BV - 

 

First off, in this video the Admin states that a consumer should first look into bankruptcy.

 

Which is excellent advice! But it totally contradicts her own statement in this thread that "bankruptcy should be the last resort." Why the change of heart Admin? Your advice about looking into bankruptcy first was spot on!!! 

 

What else I found interesting is that she also gave great advice about looking into hardship programs or raising funds to settle quickly. 

 

But what's really disturbing is that she then states: "if you can't settle with the credit card companies directly then you just don't pay your bills..." 

 

Instead of paying them, she says "when the accounts go to a collection agency you should just request validation on them and if they can't provide validation that the CA's will just leave you alone. And in the event that they can validate the debt, you can write them to tell them they can stop calling you."

 

All of these things sure as hell sound like you guys are telling people to send cease and desist letters on debts that are within SOL.   

 

Anyway, I just have to say that most of this exchange has been ridiculous. Look at that first post I linked above. Look how you guys reacted to my post. I couldn't have delivered that information in a more friendly and delicate way and I was pounced on immediately and its never stopped. 

 

And all I was trying to do was to help you guys with some insider information that consumers should be aware about. Some of you still think I'm posting for a self-serving agenda. It's paranoia at its best. 

 

And to be perfectly clear - I don't take issue with sending debt validation letters (on valid debts) or cease and desist letters. I would never do it for myself. And I certainly wouldn't recommend the approach to anyone who wanted to resolve their debt. But to each their own.

 

My entire point is to just accompany the advice with an explanation of the cons when delivering it. That's it. 

 

The recent links that you guys have posted give excellent purpose to your boards existence. But, they have absolutely nothing to do with what I have been conveying. 

 

If a consumer feels their debt isn't valid then they should send a debt validation letter. I've never said otherwise and I've been more than clear about that. 

 

My responses are only relevant to the consumer who feels their debts are valid.  

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Willingtocope said - "Since the debt has been sold to a JDB, my personal advice is send them a "Cease and Desist" letter pointing out that you never did business with them and that they either need to prove otherwise or get off your credit reports, otherwise you'll be forced to pursue your legal options."

 

I can't answer for Willing.

 

Admin said - "I'd send a DV just to see what they say.  if they don't respond, then you can send a C&D letter."

 

 

Same here.  The other quotes have nothing to do with a C&D.

 

Regarding the video, are you referring to "And in the event that they can validate the debt, you can write them to tell them they can stop calling you."?

 

She didn't say to send a C&D.  She simply suggested a letter stating that phone calls cease.  That says nothing about ceasing all communication.

 

 

Anyway, I just have to say that most of this exchange has been ridiculous. Look at that first post I linked above. Look how you guys reacted to my post. I couldn't have delivered that information in a more friendly and delicate way and I was pounced on immediately and its never stopped.

 

 

A mugger can point a gun at you and in a "friendly and delicate way", tell you to hand over your money.   It doesn't make him any less of a criminal.

 

 

And all I was trying to do was to help you guys with some insider information that consumers should be aware about.

 

 

 You offered information about one JDB and that you could not support with statistics. 

 

Some of you still think I'm posting for a self-serving agenda. It's paranoia at its best.

 

It's not paranoid to be wary.  It's common sense.

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Well, Willing is more than able to speak for himself.

 

I probably did say what the DF accuses me of...but I don't see it in any of the threads he mentions.

 

I would normally offer such advice when a person finds a JDB on his CR, and doesn't have any clue as to why the JDB is there.

 

In other words, don't pay nobody nothing until they step up and prove they have the right person, the right account, the right amount, and the right to collect in your state...and, in the case of a JDB, make them prove it in court. 

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Well, Willing is more than able to speak for himself.

 

I probably did say what the DF accuses me of...but I don't see it in any of the threads he mentions.

 

I would normally offer such advice when a person finds a JDB on his CR, and doesn't have any clue as to why the JDB is there.

 

In other words, don't pay nobody nothing until they step up and prove they have the right person, the right account, the right amount, and the right to collect in your state...and, in the case of a JDB, make them prove it in court. 

 

Like I said it was post # 47 in this thread -  http://www.creditinfocenter.com/community/topic/320644-pentagroup-ignored-dv-letter-in-march-now-sending-documents-in-june/page-3

 

 

You said it in reply to:

 

"My situation is clear:

  • the debt is 100% valid, the tacked on fees, maybe, can be arguable to a point
  • I had previously settled 3 other CC accounts that show as settled in some form or another on my CR.  2 other accounts (inc this one) show as unpaid for over a year and a half.
  • I had spoken to the OC prior to charge off in an attempt to negotiate a settlement and was unable to secure one that was satisfactory to me based on funds available at the time
  • I have spoken a few times to the JDB (Portfolio Recovery Associates) briefly, once to tell them not to call me at work, and 2 other times to hear them out and also noted I'd like to settle but just didn't have funds at present. Last conversation was had Feb 2013
  • They have since called my home incessantly and I never pickup.  They have also sent a letter identifying the debt and offering an 80% "settlement" to clear
  • Last contact came last week via mail, Second notice, being referred to the litigation dept but that no individual attorney has reviewed the case as of yet and they must hear from me by July 5th.  This notice showed the correct OC, and debt Seller, as well as a balance (that included tacked on late fees, no itemization, just a number).

I have been hemming and hawing about sending a DV precisely because of what Torden writes. 

Fact is, if I had funds, I'd push to settle for 20-40% right now, it is my debt after all.

If my goal is to simply delay until I gather funds, but avoid risk of judgment and/or suit, what would best course be?"

 

That description sounds just like "a person who found a JDB on his CR, and doesn't have any clue as to why the JDB is there." doesn't it?

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BV80, on 16 Jul 2013 - 4:54 PM, said:

I can't answer for Willing.
 
Same here.  The other quotes have nothing to do with a C&D.
 
Regarding the video, are you referring to "And in the event that they can validate the debt, you can write them to tell them they can stop calling you."?
 
She didn't say to send a C&D.  She simply suggested a letter stating that phone calls cease.  That says nothing about ceasing all communication.

 

 

 
Did you watch the 2 minute video? Apparently not. Please do. 
 
And then you tell me...

 

 

 

 

 

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I just watched an amazing video of an FTC workshop that I think everyone here will enjoy...

 

It can be viewed at - http://www.ftc.gov/video-library/index.php/ftc-events/life-of-a-debt:-data-integrity-in-debt-collection-part-4/2468007208001 (Willingtocope - there is an embed option on the video but it didn't embed correctly in the post here. Is there a way to make it work?)

 

The first half of the video is relevant to debts that are within stats. The other half is dedicated to accounts that aren't. Lot's of insight here.... 

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