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Pentagroup ignored DV letter in March... now sending documents in JUne


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It's good to hear from the other side, I had never been on the other side, nor do I have read in other forums, I know they got forums too, but I never found one (I probably didn't try hard enough), anyways other opinions are always valuable, that's why we live in a democracy! we might not agree but as long as it respectful it's always something to read.

 

Well said! 

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First ... please learn to make followup replies where YOUR text is NOT inside the box of who you are answering.  They way you are doing it makes it hard to reply to YOU without having to copy and paste text around, which subjects the process to potential errors.  You can break up a box by just pressing a couple of returns together fast at the places you want to break it.
 
 

 

 
 

 

Thanks for the tip, Torden. 

 

There is a certain plausibility to this.  The argument is that the DV forces them to expend (either by using up their 10% or paying out) to answer the DV (if they are going that far), and having done that, it is a "sunk cost" that makes the lawsuit slightly less costly (they now have the info and it won't be expended to file the suit).  For borderline accounts, they may make a statistical difference.

 

 
Indeed it could. 
 
 

But there is also the counter argument that a debtor who knows how to DV is a debtor that is less likely to pay.  For an account that is worth filing suit on, this would likely speed it up.  But it also shows the debtor is more likely to stop a default judgment.

 

That could be a possible consideration of theirs. However, in the instances where they get proper backup and there is something worthwhile to go after it's not likely they''ll care. If you were them, would you? 

 

 

 

Evaluating the above depends on whether the collector is one that is into the practice of mass suing for DJs.  In this case, the DV is more likely to reduce the risk of a suit.  And we know of certain collectors and junk debt buyers that do this all the time.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            

 

I look at this differently. It is my opinion that the JDB's that mass sue are the ones that are most likely to not have the documentation when they do sue. So I believe that by asking for the validation before they sue, you are essentially preparing them for when/if they do sue. 

 

I personally feel that if people wait until they are sued, they'll be in the best possible position. Simply because they may not have it to begin with if you didn't force them to previously get it.  

 

Thank you for participating. This is such a wonderful debate. 
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[There is a certain plausibility to this.  The argument is that the DV forces them to expend (either by using up their 10% or paying out) to answer the DV (if they are going that far), and having done that, it is a "sunk cost" that makes the lawsuit slightly less costly (they now have the info and it won't be expended to file the suit).  For borderline accounts, they may make a statistical difference.

But there is also the counter argument that a debtor who knows how to DV is a debtor that is less likely to pay.  For an account that is worth filing suit on, this would likely speed it up.  But it also shows the debtor is more likely to stop a default judgment.
Evaluating the above depends on whether the collector is one that is into the practice of mass suing for DJs.  In this case, the DV is more likely to reduce the risk of a suit.  And we know of certain collectors and junk debt buyers that do this all the time.]
 
Been following this thread along with a few others related to my situation (one of which I have dedicated to my own situation [mod - please move if better suited there]).  
Since this thread overlaps and may be helpful to others, I posted here.
 
The above makes the most logical sense to me from a collection agency standpoint.
My situation is clear:
  • the debt is 100% valid, the tacked on fees, maybe, can be arguable to a point
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  • I had previously settled 3 other CC accounts that show as settled in some form or another on my CR.  2 other accounts (inc this one) show as unpaid for over a year and a half.
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  • I had spoken to the OC prior to charge off in an attempt to negotiate a settlement and was unable to secure one that was satisfactory to me based on funds available at the time
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  • I have spoken a few times to the JDB (Portfolio Recovery Associates) briefly, once to tell them not to call me at work, and 2 other times to hear them out and also noted I'd like to settle but just didn't have funds at present. Last conversation was had Feb 2013
  •  
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  • They have since called my home incessantly and I never pickup.  They have also sent a letter identifying the debt and offering an 80% "settlement" to clear
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  • Last contact came last week via mail, Second notice, being referred to the litigation dept but that no individual attorney has reviewed the case as of yet and they must hear from me by July 5th.  This notice showed the correct OC, and debt Seller, as well as a balance (that included tacked on late fees, no itemization, just a number).
  •  
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I have been hemming and hawing about sending a DV precisely because of what Torden writes. 

Fact is, if I had funds, I'd push to settle for 20-40% right now, it is my debt after all.

If my goal is to simply delay until I gather funds, but avoid risk of judgment and/or suit, what would best course be?

And being this is second notice, but has not been referred to an attorney yet, can I still send a DV?  And what would next steps be?

What happens if I do not send a DV and they send suit?  I cannot have a judgment against me so I would need to respond.  How?

 

Thanks again to all on this forum.  It is extremely helpful.

 

 

Hi Bob, 

 

  • The age of your accounts concerns me. Typically speaking, your accounts will remain with your OC for about 7-8 months. Then they're typically either sold or placed on contingency. Regardless if they are sold or placed they're typically first placed with a collection agency for about 6 months. In your case the agency is also the JDB. Their strategy during this 6 months of the collection cycle is to collect the "easy money." Once the agency has exhausted their efforts the owner of your debt may evaluate your account for suit. Please understand that I'm not saying they will sue you. As they may just forward your account out to another collection agency for another 6 months or so. What I am saying is that you're right in that sweet spot to where they begin to make these contemplation's. 
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  • The extra fee is probably back interest. The back interest is more than likely negotiable. 
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  • The 3 accounts that you previously settled will hurt your leverage a bit. Since that also demonstrates that you care and that you're in less debt and potentially more able to pay. (this is why I try to settle everything simultaneously when possible) 
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  • You may be able to negotiate a settlement over a few payments. So if you can comfortably afford that approach you should consider it. 
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  • My best advise when making your offer is to make it a "what if." First explain how you're struggling. Then explain that you may be able to borrow from your family, but you're not sure. Then point out to them that you have no other financial resource available to you (if in fact you don't) and ask them "if I could come up with X over a few payments do you think you guys may settle for that?" and then follow that up with "I have had conversations with a family member in the past but I just owed too much for them to help... maybe with this approach they might do it. If you're willing to let me know if that would be doable I'll talk to them as soon as possible and I'll call you back to let you know." They may try to involve themselves and ask to call the relative with you 3 way. If they do, just tell them that your relative wouldn't appreciate that and that they probably wouldn't help after that. 
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  • When making this offer expect a little resistance because of the areas of confidence that I mentioned initially. But with this approach you will take away their ability to harp on you and instead they will have to rely on someone that they have no control over to assist. It's generally very effective.  
  •  

Please feel free to follow up with any questions. I'll be sure to check this thread more promptly. Good luck to you. 

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Jared,

Thanks for your reply.  The goal initially when I decided to work settlements was to finish them all at once as the leverage to note you have others acct would assist in getting the best settlements (it did).  Unfortunately I ran out of money and circumstance has it so I am still in that position now.  Obtaining funds now will be extremely difficult.

 

For my particular case, from a logical standpoint, I agree with everything you stated above. Topping it off is the fact that I have a steady job with what many would say is relatively very good income.

This likely makes my account that much more "ripe".  Hardships related to medical cost for children and most notably a pay cut that has yet to be made up has me where I am now.

So while I'd like to offer to settle and do it in installments and feel this is the best course, I anticipate needing another 6 months before having funds on my own to offer to settle.

How would one best go about that in my case?

DV or no DV?  Does Second notice mean I am too late to ask for a DV

Or just wait for suit, then DV, or is it too late then and am I then fast tracked?

I just need to delay delay delay, until funds are there and attempt to settle then (hopefully at a fairly decent %).

 

kutusov,

Thanks, I hear you, and I am informed to a point and willing to stay informed by reading and asking questions.  Not really sure I want a court battle though.

The debt is mine, it's legit, and I am not looking for a fight, just a settlement that will make both sides happy.  A JDB waiting a bit longer on a settlement in the range of 20%-40% paid in installments for debt they paid 5% on the dollar for on is a win-win in my book.

 

Thanks to all for their comments, they are enlightening.

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Obtaining funds now will be extremely difficult.

It's time to start saving them up for a settlement. 

 

DV or no DV?  Does Second notice mean I am too late to ask for a DV

Second notice means it's too late.  

 

Or just wait for suit, then DV, or is it too late then and am I then fast tracked?

Too late then.  

 

I just need to delay delay delay, until funds are there and attempt to settle then (hopefully at a fairly decent %).

You can just do nothing but I recommend disputing with the credit bureaus.  

 

kutusov,

Thanks, I hear you, and I am informed to a point and willing to stay informed by reading and asking questions.  Not really sure I want a court battle though.

The debt is mine, it's legit, and I am not looking for a fight, just a settlement that will make both sides happy.  A JDB waiting a bit longer on a settlement in the range of 20%-40% paid in installments for debt they paid 5% on the dollar for on is a win-win in my book.

 

Doing a settlement is a good idea.  ANd the longer you wait, the more eager they will be to settle.  

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That could be a possible consideration of theirs. However, in the instances where they get proper backup and there is something worthwhile to go after it's not likely they''ll care. If you were them, would you?

If I were in the junk debt collection business, I'd be going after the soft targets.  Those who DV, when the percentage of DV-ers is small, indicate hard targets I would not care to deal with.  If they have little money it's not worth it.  If they have a lot, they will hire an attorney.  I will put my effort where it can pay off.  It's "account triage".

 

I look at this differently. It is my opinion that the JDB's that mass sue are the ones that are most likely to not have the documentation when they do sue. So I believe that by asking for the validation before they sue, you are essentially preparing them for when/if they do sue.

Or, they just don't make the effort to validate at all, save the money on processing the DV, and move the account to market offerings.

 

I personally feel that if people wait until they are sued, they'll be in the best possible position. Simply because they may not have it to begin with if you didn't force them to previously get it.

I had a collector that sued "out of the gate".  First communication was service of their complaint. No chance to DV.  Their response to my discovery demand was to move to dismiss.  I was so psyched to counter sue (I had never done business with the claimed OC) this caught me off guard.  I didn't even find out if they had standing to sue (there are collectors that get "samples" of portfolios and just sue w/o standing with the intent to buy the standing if they get a DJ).  In some cases they may get more than "samples".  They may be allowed to do "due diligence" on the entire portfolio which turns out to be sue and buy standing for DJs and dismiss the rest ... and often just resell "improved accounts" with the party selling to them never knowing what they did.

 

And the other thing is, it is so easy to respond to the legally required level for a DV, going back to the OC really isn't needed for a DV.  DV is really nothing more than a check to see if the account really is in their own database.  DV isn't civil procedure.

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It's time to start saving them up for a settlement. 

 

Second notice means it's too late.  

 

Too late then.  

 

You can just do nothing but I recommend disputing with the credit bureaus.  

Doing a settlement is a good idea.  ANd the longer you wait, the more eager they will be to settle.

If I am reading this right, if I got a "Second Notice, being referred for possible litigation"..." yet to be placed with a local attorney", I am still too late to DV?

Also, currently the JDB is not listed on my CR. The OC shows the account as Closed as of Feb 2013 likely when they sold it and I had my 2 calls w the JDB.

If I am too late to DV and do nothing, are there delay tactics if the end up filing suit until I am able to make a settlement offer? How long of a delay are we talking?

I am wondering if I am able to delay another 2 months if this JDB would sell the debt as it would be past 6 months and it sounds like they hold onto these accts for 6 months prior to passing them off to next JDB. Thus buying me the time I'd truly need (6-7 months).

Thx again.

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Does the OC show the account as "sold to another lender" and their balance is $0?  That's the indication its been sold ("closed" only means you can't charge anymore).

 

If not, Portfoolio is just another CA, and you can DV them...but, if its beyond 30 days from their first notice, they can still keep trying to collect.  This might,however, persuade them to move on to easier targets.

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Hi willing,
On my Credit report, OC shows this-

As of Feb 1, 2013: Account transferred to another office


Balance: $0
Last Payment Date Jan 28, 2013
Account in Dispute: No


I have not made a payment since Mar 2012 so not clear where they get a payment from Jan 28, 2013 from. That an issue I can dispute at any point??

Checking details on report is says "Account transferred to another lender"

The JDB shows:

 

As of Apr 1, 2013:


Account seriously past due date/account assigned to attorney, collection agency, or credit grantor's internal collection department



They also list the OC.
----

re:
[but, if its beyond 30 days from their first notice, they can still keep trying to collect. This might,however, persuade them to move on to easier targets.]

Can you please clarify this statement? It sounds as if I should sit and wait and do nothing based on fact that OC has sold debt, and fact that I am at Second notice.. So in affect DV at this point does nothing (?).

If waiting is the answer, then I will obviously need to respond if a suit is filed (or hope they move on). If a suit is filed, at that point I'd be looking to postpone appearing as long as possible while I attempt to gather funds in hopes of eventually reaching out to try and settle. Can you postpone, how easy is that, again, idea being stall as long as possible if a suit is filed..
Trying to think ahead for a change..

Thanks guys, i realize I may have hijacked this thread. i'd be happy to have it moved to if admin deems necessary..

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re:

[but, if its beyond 30 days from their first notice, they can still keep trying to collect. This might,however, persuade them to move on to easier targets.]

Can you please clarify this statement? It sounds as if I should sit and wait and do nothing based on fact that OC has sold debt, and fact that I am at Second notice.. So in affect DV at this point does nothing (?).

I think he's suggesting you DV to telegraph the fact that you're not a stupid consumer, but know your rights.  

 

If waiting is the answer, then I will obviously need to respond if a suit is filed (or hope they move on). If a suit is filed, at that point I'd be looking to postpone appearing as long as possible while I attempt to gather funds in hopes of eventually reaching out to try and settle. Can you postpone, how easy is that, again, idea being stall as long as possible if a suit is filed..

Trying to think ahead for a change..

Going to court usually takes a little while.  If you file the right motions, answer, etc. thing can drag on for months.   We are here to help.  I wouldn't worry about court.  

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Okay, the key phrases are on your CRs, so it has been sold.

 

At this point, a DV is probably a waste of time.  If they do file suit, then your next chance to delay will be in the discovery process before court...or, if your original contract with the OC has an arbitration clause, you could go that route.

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Thanks for the re-assurance, and reiteration on sending the DV and purpose it would serve.

I guess I was hung up on fact that I know debt is valid and I do want to settle in future when I gather funds.

 

I'll get that DV out to the JDB, registerd mail w return receipt.  Play it from there.

And I will continue to post throughout for updates and guidance if you all can be so kind.

 

Thanks so much.

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Jared,

Thanks for your reply.  The goal initially when I decided to work settlements was to finish them all at once as the leverage to note you have others acct would assist in getting the best settlements (it did).  Unfortunately I ran out of money and circumstance has it so I am still in that position now.  Obtaining funds now will be extremely difficult.

 

For my particular case, from a logical standpoint, I agree with everything you stated above. Topping it off is the fact that I have a steady job with what many would say is relatively very good income.

This likely makes my account that much more "ripe".  Hardships related to medical cost for children and most notably a pay cut that has yet to be made up has me where I am now.

So while I'd like to offer to settle and do it in installments and feel this is the best course, I anticipate needing another 6 months before having funds on my own to offer to settle.

How would one best go about that in my case?

DV or no DV?  Does Second notice mean I am too late to ask for a DV

Or just wait for suit, then DV, or is it too late then and am I then fast tracked?

I just need to delay delay delay, until funds are there and attempt to settle then (hopefully at a fairly decent %).

 

kutusov,

Thanks, I hear you, and I am informed to a point and willing to stay informed by reading and asking questions.  Not really sure I want a court battle though.

The debt is mine, it's legit, and I am not looking for a fight, just a settlement that will make both sides happy.  A JDB waiting a bit longer on a settlement in the range of 20%-40% paid in installments for debt they paid 5% on the dollar for on is a win-win in my book.

 

Thanks to all for their comments, they are enlightening.

 

No problem. If you're in a position to where you can't afford to settle for awhile, perhaps a hardship payment plan would be your best approach. If you feel it is your best approach, you should call them and explain your situation and that you can only afford 25 -$50 a month for the next 6 months. If they agree to work with you, this arrangement should protect you from any further collection efforts while you're making those payments. And in turn, buy you the time that you need to save up for settlement. 

 

If I were in your shoes I would go the payment plan route rather than the DV. 

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No problem. If you're in a position to where you can't afford to settle for awhile, perhaps a hardship payment plan would be your best approach. If you feel it is your best approach, you should call them and explain your situation and that you can only afford 25 -$50 a month for the next 6 months. If they agree to work with you, this arrangement should protect you from any further collection efforts while you're making those payments. And in turn, buy you the time that you need to save up for settlement. 

 

If I were in your shoes I would go the payment plan route rather than the DV. 

DON'T DO THIS.  You will reset the SOL on the debt.  The best thing to do is to save up on money on your own until you have enough for a settlement amount.  

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If I were in the junk debt collection business, I'd be going after the soft targets.  Those who DV, when the percentage of DV-ers is small, indicate hard targets I would not care to deal with.  If they have little money it's not worth it.  If they have a lot, they will hire an attorney.  I will put my effort where it can pay off.  It's "account triage".

 

That is a possible perspective that could be taken. 

 

 

Or, they just don't make the effort to validate at all, save the money on processing the DV, and move the account to market offerings.

 

 

Again, that is possible.

 

 

I had a collector that sued "out of the gate".  First communication was service of their complaint. No chance to DV.  Their response to my discovery demand was to move to dismiss.  I was so psyched to counter sue (I had never done business with the claimed OC) this caught me off guard.  I didn't even find out if they had standing to sue (there are collectors that get "samples" of portfolios and just sue w/o standing with the intent to buy the standing if they get a DJ).  In some cases they may get more than "samples".  They may be allowed to do "due diligence" on the entire portfolio which turns out to be sue and buy standing for DJs and dismiss the rest ... and often just resell "improved accounts" with the party selling to them never knowing what they did.

 

 

Nice job. They obviously moved to dismiss because they lacked the proof that would be necessary to win.

 

In respect to the sample issue: I don't see how that would be possible without the issue of fraud. I'm not saying that it isn't possible, because there are some real shady people out there. But if they don't own the rights to the accounts and are just surveying the information for potential purchase this activity wouldn't be permitted. 

 

 

And the other thing is, it is so easy to respond to the legally required level for a DV, going back to the OC really isn't needed for a DV.  DV is really nothing more than a check to see if the account really is in their own database.  DV isn't civil procedure.

 

I agree to a point. It really depends on the core dispute that is detailed in the DV.  

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DON'T DO THIS.  You will reset the SOL on the debt.  The best thing to do is to save up on money on your own until you have enough for a settlement amount.  

 

Admin, he is approximately 18 months out on a debt that he wants to resolve. Neither of us know what state he is in, so it's difficult for us to know how far removed he is from claiming statutes. But, what we do know is that even if he is in the most consumer friendly SOL state possible, that he is still approximately 18 months away from being able to claim it. He has already stated that he intends to financially address the debt in the next 6 months. So per his stated goals, I think that renewing statutes is a moot point.

 

He said he wants to resolve this without putting himself into a further adversarial situation. Entering into a small payment plan that wouldn't impact his ability to save too harshly will accomplish that.  

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DON'T DO THIS. You will reset the SOL on the debt. The best thing to do is to save up on money on your own until you have enough for a settlement amount.

Understood. I know when I was going through the settlement procees last year, this was first thing I was told not to do as this resets the clock and was a ploy by all OC's and Collection agency's. I understand I need to buy time, but this may be a bit overboard and would kill any leverage. Still, I def need to find a way to gather funds to make a plausible offer when time comes.

Based on willing's response, at this point, being that a DV would be a wast of time, do I even bother sending one? Or just respond if/when they file suit and then do whatever I can to delay until funds are available?
I am in New Jersey and the SOL is 6 years from what I can tell.

The conflicting opinions are making it tough to figure whats best for me.
I understand both points to a degree. If I know I'll have the $ in a few months, it's a no brainer, no way I agree to a hardship plan. On a $7k debt, 40% would still be $2800 (lot of $), assuming I can get them to agree on that. Goal would be more like 20-25% (much more reasonable).
If I agreed to a hardship plan and reset the clock, what is the true likelihood I can then work a settlement months down the road? I'd think a hardship plan would be a setup to be chained to the full amount of the debt.

 
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Understood!  I know when I was going through the settlement procees last year, this was first thing I was told not to do as this resets the clock and was a ploy by all OC's and Collection agency's. I understand I need to buy time, but this may be a bit overboard and would kill any leverage.  Still, I def need to find a way to gather funds to make a plausible offer when time comes.

 

Based on willing's response, at this point, being that a DV would be a wast of time, do I even bother sending one?  Or just respond if/when they file suit and then do whatever I can to delay until funds are available?

 

Thanks!

 

I have used this strategy successfully for years. 25 - $50 monthly payments will not impact your leverage at all. In fact, it will probably enhance it. 

 

The reason why is due to the time-value of your debt. It would probably take you many years to resolve the debt with those payment amounts. 

 

It is more profitable for a JDB to enter into a settlement as opposed to 25 - $50 payments.

 

The reasons why are:

 

  • They can turn around and buy more accounts with the settlement they've collected from you. If you do the math and compare 25 - $50 payments to a settlement that will generate additional buying power: it's a no-brainer for them. 
  • They no longer have servicing costs as your debt would be fully resolved. Where as with the small payment option, they have to continually follow up with you.  
  • Most debt buyers buy their debts with a line of credit. This line of credit has an interest rate that eats into their margins. The longer the debt remains fully unresolved the less profit they make due to the interest that they pay.  
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Sending small payments DOES NOT reset the reporting period to the CRAs....but....depending on your state's SOL law, it may reset the state SOL.  DON'T DO IT.

 

What I meant to imply is that you are already being sued, a DV is useless.  Use the discovery process to "validate" the debt.  On the other hand, if you are not yet being sued, a DV may make the CA move on to easier targets.

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I am in New Jersey and the SOL is 6 years from what I can tell.

 

 

 

 

Then you have approximately 4 and half years to go. Which again is moot because you intend on taking care of it.

 

 

 

 

 

The conflicting opinions are making it tough to figure whats best for me.

I understand both points to a degree. If I know I'll have the $ in a few months, it's a no brainer, no way I agree to a hardship plan. On a $7k debt, 40% would still be $2800 (lot of $), assuming I can get them to agree on that. Goal would be more like 20-25% (much more reasonable).

If I agreed to a hardship plan and reset the clock, what is the true likelihood I can then work a settlement months down the road? I'd think a hardship plan would be a setup to be chained to the full amount of the debt.

 

 

The idea behind entering into a hardship plan is to ensure that your account won't be referred to a local attorney for suit while you're saving up your money to settle. Typically speaking, they are less negotiable on accounts that they are litigating due to the perceived leverage they have. 

 

And in your situation, since the collection agency is also the debt buyer, they potentially may be even more less negotiable if the account is placed with a local attorney since they'll have to pay that local attorney approximately 30% of what they collect from you as a contingency. This is a cost that they wouldn't have if they keep the account in-house.   

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Okay, the debt fixer sticking his gibberish in the middle of this discussion is not helping at all.

 

@bkbob63 Since the debt has been sold to a JDB, my personal advice is send them a "Cease and Desist" letter pointing out that you never did business with them and that they either need to prove otherwise or get off your credit reports, otherwise you'll be forced to pursue your legal options.

 

Chances are, they'll back off and go after easier prey. They may sell the debt to another JDB.  If they do take you to court, its unlikely that they will be able to produce evidence that you actually owe them money.  As to this being a legitimate debt...you owed the OC money.  The JDB paid pennies on the dollar for the right to hassle you.  You do not them anything.

 

Yes, you stand a chance of being sued...yes, you may have to defend yourself in court...but I personally would never pay a JDB a cent unless ordered by a judge.  As the debt fixer has alluded to, the JDB financial model is not set up to take small payments, so unless you have a fairly large percentage of the debt to waste on them, you probably have no choice but to fight back.

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Okay, the debt fixer sticking his gibberish in the middle of this discussion is not helping at all.

 

@bkbob63 Since the debt has been sold to a JDB, my personal advice is send them a "Cease and Desist" letter pointing out that you never did business with them and that they either need to prove otherwise or get off your credit reports, otherwise you'll be forced to pursue your legal options.

 

Chances are, they'll back off and go after easier prey. They may sell the debt to another JDB.  If they do take you to court, its unlikely that they will be able to produce evidence that you actually owe them money.  As to this being a legitimate debt...you owed the OC money.  The JDB paid pennies on the dollar for the right to hassle you.  You do not them anything.

 

Yes, you stand a chance of being sued...yes, you may have to defend yourself in court...but I personally would never pay a JDB a cent unless ordered by a judge.  As the debt fixer has alluded to, the JDB financial model is not set up to take small payments, so unless you have a fairly large percentage of the debt to waste on them, you probably have no choice but to fight back.

 

 

Willing, you crack me up... :) 

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In respect to the sample issue: I don't see how that would be possible without the issue of fraud. I'm not saying that it isn't possible, because there are some real shady people out there. But if they don't own the rights to the accounts and are just surveying the information for potential purchase this activity wouldn't be permitted.

Definitely some shady characters out there.  Some run some big JDBs.  Just because it is not permitted does not mean people with a criminal bent can't get away with it.  It's easy to CYA.  If someone catches them without standing to sue, they will please "bona fide" error and say the accounts must have been mixed up in the computer and they "will investigate".  In most cases they MTD fast on the first hint of a defense play (any answer) or move for DJ after the time to answer.  Once they have the DJ, they go back to the seller and provide a list of "selected accounts based on research" or whatever other BS.  Of course they have to convince the seller to do things like "let me do due diligence research on this portfolio ... we've been burned too often on worthless portfolios".

 

There are other activities that "wouldn't be permitted", too, like "sewer service".  But these things happen, and still happen, big time.  Lots of businesses outside of AR are similarly run by crooked people that carefully structure their fraud to make it look like bona fide errors.  Financial services like ALL the big national banks are like this.  And it extends well outside financial services.

 

I agree to a point. It really depends on the core dispute that is detailed in the DV.  

A DV and a dispute are two different things.  A DV is a request to validate the debt.  It is not saying the debt is in dispute.  There is nothing to detail for a DV.

 

The debt can also be, or separately be, disputed, triggering the requirement that any credit reporting show the account is in dispute.  Having done the dispute and given the collector the basis for researching the account (even though not required by law), can at least block a defense by the collector if they are sued ("we didn't know anything was wrong").  Obviously detail is needed there, such as "already paid" or "not mine".

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@bkbob63

 

The conflicting opinions are making it tough to figure whats best for me.
I understand both points to a degree. If I know I'll have the $ in a few months, it's a no brainer, no way I agree to a hardship plan. On a $7k debt, 40% would still be $2800 (lot of $), assuming I can get them to agree on that. Goal would be more like 20-25% (much more reasonable).
If I agreed to a hardship plan and reset the clock, what is the true likelihood I can then work a settlement months down the road? I'd think a hardship plan would be a setup to be chained to the full amount of the debt.

Jared's opinions come from the standpoint that he is a former collections agent turned debt settlement guy.  His admitted modis operandi was to collect at all costs.  

 

Our standpoint comes from listening to the experiences of people who have successfully fought off JDBs - through debt settlement, debt validation and court.  

 

Yes, you could get sued, but we can help you fight off these guys if this happens.  

 

A "hardship" plan is a bad idea.  You never do payments on a collection account - you will never be paying on principal, but fictitious fees and interest.  It's either settlement in full or nothing.  

 

Save up your money until you have at least 10% of the debt then see if you can make a deal.  

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