jaspa2000 Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 Hello everyone, My wife and I have had an unknown debt collector harassing us and leaving messages on our cell phone voice mails. These voice mails have been heard by a 3rd party. They do have the caveat that if the person listening is not me(or my wife) to hang up, 3 second pause, then the mini-miranda indicating they are trying to collect a debt. My question is, is there much success suing on third party disclosure when its a cell phone message. We have 9 of these messages(all in the course of a week) between the two phones. All messages are saved. As near as I can tell, per Washington State Law 3rd party disclosure is a statutory violation payable at $2,000 per violation(per message). Would it be best to do this pro se or find an attorney? If pro se is best should I send an intent to sue letter first? They are not reporting on my credit report yet. Should I call them back(and record the call) in an attempt to get more violations? I read that they are very abusive. The company is First Credit Services. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTO429 Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 If you intend to sue then just do it, why let them know it is coming,,,,,Other option, include in your intent to sue letter what you would settle for out of court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BV80 Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 @jaspa2000 Unknown debt collector? The messages don't contain information as to the identity of the CA? Also, how are they harrassing? What do they say? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaspa2000 Posted July 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 @jaspa2000 Unknown debt collector? The messages don't contain information as to the identity of the CA? Also, how are they harrassing? What do they say?I phrased that poorly. They identify themselves as First Credit Services and the phone number they leave lines up with this company. http://www.firstcreditcollections.com/ When I said unknown debt collector, I meant they are attempting to collect an unknown debt and this company is not on my credit report.By harassing, I meant sheer number of calls in a 1 week period. 9 in a week between my wife and I. Upon further research it appears that a debt collector can only call/write 3 times a week in my state.(http://www.atg.wa.gov/ConsumerIssues/Credit/CollectionAgencies.aspx#.UeRFe6yvFDQ) The messages consist of something like, "This message is for Jaspa2000, if you are not Jaspa200 please hang up. There will now be a 3 second pause. By continuing to listen to this message you are agreeing that you are Jaspa2000. This is an attempt to collect a debt, any information obtained will be used for that purpose. Please call -some name- at First Credit Services at -some phone number- reference -some case number- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BV80 Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 You mentioned 3rd party disclosure. Who else heard the messages? I'm not sure that such a message left on your cell phone would be considered 3rd party discolosure. The reason is because our cell phones are usually private. The only way another person could hear hear a message is if we use the speaker or hand the person the phone. There's case law in regard to similar messages on answering machines. Those courts ruled that such messages that instructed listeners who were not the debtor to hang up or not listen were insufficient. They still violated the debtor's rights. But your case involves cell phone messages. Without precedent to support such a claim, it wouldn't be a slam dunk. Personally, I think you should speak to an attorney regarding an FDCPA violation. HOWEVER, there's the TCPA. A recorded message indicates an autodialer was used. Autodialers cannot be used to contact cell phones unless the consumer provided that cell number to the original creditor or the debt collector. You'd need to find out what this debt is about and if it's yours. If it is your debt, you'd know if you ever provided your or your wife's number(s) to the OC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaspa2000 Posted July 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 You mentioned 3rd party disclosure. Who else heard the messages? I'm not sure that such a message left on your cell phone would be considered 3rd party discolosure. The reason is because our cell phones are usually private. The only way another person could hear hear a message is if we use the speaker or hand the person the phone. There's case law in regard to similar messages on answering machines. Those courts ruled that such messages that instructed listeners who were not the debtor to hang up or not listen were insufficient. They still violated the debtor's rights. But your case involves cell phone messages. Without precedent to support such a claim, it wouldn't be a slam dunk. Personally, I think you should speak to an attorney regarding an FDCPA violation. HOWEVER, there's the TCPA. A recorded message indicates an autodialer was used. Autodialers cannot be used to contact cell phones unless the consumer provided that cell number to the original creditor or the debt collector. You'd need to find out what this debt is about and if it's yours. If it is your debt, you'd know if you ever provided your or your wife's number(s) to the OC.My mother heard them all. ETA: This thread looks promising. http://www.creditinfocenter.com/community/topic/315952-voicemails-from-debt-collectors/?hl=%2Bparty+%2Bdisclosure#entry1252784 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BV80 Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 @jaspa2000 I would find out what the debt is about. The TCPA is more lucrative than the FDCPA. If you didn't give the original creditor or the debt collector your cell phone numbers, you would have a violation for each call in which an autodialer was used. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BV80 Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 My mother heard them all. ETA: This thread looks promising. http://www.creditinfocenter.com/community/topic/315952-voicemails-from-debt-collectors/?hl=%2Bparty+%2Bdisclosure#entry1252784 @jaspa2000 The Franklin case is a good case, but it's about a landline, not a cell phone. I honestly don't know if courts would diffierentiate between the 2 or not simply because a cell phone is more private and other people don't normally hear the messages. As far as I know, there's no case law regarding that specific issue. But if you have solid TCPA violations, you could throw a possible FDCPA violation in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaspa2000 Posted July 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 @jaspa2000 The Franklin case is a good case, but it's about a landline, not a cell phone. I honestly don't know if courts would diffierentiate between the 2 or not simply because a cell phone is more private and other people don't normally hear the messages. As far as I know, there's no case law regarding that specific issue. But if you have solid TCPA violations, you could throw a possible FDCPA violation in there.I will need to look further into it then I guess. I called and the debt 73 dollars for a gym membership I canceled 2 years ago. I did give the OC my cell phone as a contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaspa2000 Posted August 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2013 So a little update on this. This debt collector is now leaving messages on my mother in law's land line phone. I am drafting my ITS letter, and basing it on WA state law. Shall I post the letter I intend to send? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtzapper Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 Before you post an ITS Letter, consult with a consumer lawyer. It's free. If they take your case, the debt collector pays you AND pays for your lawyer. You will not make any more money going it alone. An ITS letter from a pro se who is not an experienced litigator will be ignored. www.naca.net www.attorneysforconsumers.com www.lemberglaw.com www.krohnandmoss.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stStep Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 Personally, I wouldn't bother with an ITS letter. I used to a couple years ago, but they went unheeded and I would sue. In your place, I would just go ahead and sue - 9 TCPA calls @ $1,500 = $13,500 in damages + 1 FDCPA violation = $14,500... If you sue, they will most likely offer 50% of that to just go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtzapper Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 Personally, I wouldn't bother with an ITS letter. I used to a couple years ago, but they went unheeded and I would sue. In your place, I would just go ahead and sue - 9 TCPA calls @ $1,500 = $13,500 in damages + 1 FDCPA violation = $14,500... If you sue, they will most likely offer 50% of that to just go away. Since the OP said in # 9 that he gave his cell number to the gym in the contract, and didn't revoke consent, I don't see how he would have any TCPA vios at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaspa2000 Posted August 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 No TCPA violations, just the third party disclosure. In Washington state I get 2 grand per violation on top of the 1000 dollars I would get for violation of the FDCPA. So I'm at 5 grand right now, just the limit for small claims in my state. Everything I've read says I should include a copy of a summons with a simple ITS which offers a settlement option. I'm probably going to have to do this pro-se unfortunately, all the consumer attorneys I've contacted never get back to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaspa2000 Posted August 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 @debtzapper So I put in inquiries just for grins to attorneysforconsumers.com and krohnandmoss.com to see if either would take my case. Do those guys take your case on contingency, or do you pay up front and then recover fees later?Before you post an ITS Letter, consult with a consumer lawyer. It's free. If they take your case, the debt collector pays you AND pays for your lawyer. You will not make any more money going it alone. An ITS letter from a pro se who is not an experienced litigator will be ignored. www.naca.net www.attorneysforconsumers.com www.lemberglaw.com www.krohnandmoss.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentWA Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 Not sure in Washington you are at, but I am going to PM you the name of an excellent lawyer in the Puget Sound Area that is awesome. In the only case I used a lawyer he nailed them to the wall. I think he does take on cases elsewhere in the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtzapper Posted August 10, 2013 Report Share Posted August 10, 2013 @debtzapper So I put in inquiries just for grins to attorneysforconsumers.com and krohnandmoss.com to see if either would take my case. Do those guys take your case on contingency, or do you pay up front and then recover fees later? Those law firms will take a case on contingency if they think you have a valid claim. They are nationwide law firms who have attys licensed to practice in a number of states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stStep Posted August 10, 2013 Report Share Posted August 10, 2013 No TCPA violations, just the third party disclosure. In Washington state I get 2 grand per violation on top of the 1000 dollars I would get for violation of the FDCPA. So I'm at 5 grand right now, just the limit for small claims in my state. Everything I've read says I should include a copy of a summons with a simple ITS which offers a settlement option. I'm probably going to have to do this pro-se unfortunately, all the consumer attorneys I've contacted never get back to me.I would not bother with the ITS letter - just sue. Most likely, your letter is going to be round filed - and you will end up having to sue anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaspa2000 Posted August 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 Update. I have an attorney taking the case, she will handle it from here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtzapper Posted August 14, 2013 Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 Great! Wish you the best! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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