Jump to content

What is adequate Debt Validation Paperwork from a collector?


Recommended Posts

Good Morning - I posted this on another site and was hit with some rude comments and no help. Someone posted this forum and I hope someone can shed some light on this. 

 

I sent a letter of validation a month ago and they responded with this letter - 
Dear - - 
In response to your recent inquiry, we have obtained the information you requested. Enclosed please find the copies of documentation on your account.
 
If you have any further questions, please call us at the number shown above.
 
This communication is from a debt collector. Blah blah...
 
 
So All they sent me were copies of my statements and the first two pages (of 21 pages) of my credit card application. There is no signature for that application anywhere. 
 
They did not answer any of the questions on the letter I sent, such as:
 
Prove the Statute of Limitations has not expired on this alleged account.
 
Prove that you are licensed to collect in my state.
 
Provide me with your license number and any registered agents.
 
Provide me with a copy of the agreement between you and the original creditor that allows you to collect this debt for the original creditor.
 
What is my next move? Do I send another validation of debt letter? I looked up United Recovery under http://scholar.google.com/ and didn't find anything for them. Do I just wait and see what they do next. 

 

Thank you in advance!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So All they sent me were copies of my statements and the first two pages (of 21 pages) of my credit card application. There is no signature for that application anywhere. 

 

Online applications do not have a signature.  The fact that you used the card and the paper version of the on-line application is sufficient for a consumer validation. The threshold for what constitutes validation based on a consumer request for it is so low you can trip over it.

 

They did not answer any of the questions on the letter I sent, such as:

 
Prove the Statute of Limitations has not expired on this alleged account.
 
Prove that you are licensed to collect in my state.
 
Provide me with your license number and any registered agents.
 
Provide me with a copy of the agreement between you and the original creditor that allows you to collect this debt for the original creditor.

 

They don't have to prove the SOL has not expired unless they are suing you.  You can figure this out to your advantage by looking at the card agreement and seeing if there is a statement saying for the purposes of the agreement the laws of (state) will prevail.  Also, find out if your state has a borrowing statute.  If it does not then your state's law will apply for law suit purposes.  Keep in mind that there are two SOLs:  one for filing a lawsuit regarding the debt.  If that one expires you have a valid defense if they sue after it passes.  The second SOL is the one for reporting on a credit report.  It has NOTHING to do with the SOL on lawsuits.  Even if you can't be sued it can still be on your credit report for 7 years 6 months from the date of first default.  

 

Most states only require a license to collect if the collection agency or JDB has a physical presence in the state.  Simply sending a letter about a debt is legal.

 

License number and registered agents can all be obtained by going to your state licensing website.  Nothing in the FCDPA says they must provide this in a DV letter.

 

They only have to prove assignment if they sue you.  

 

What is my next move? Do I send another validation of debt letter? I looked up United Recovery under http://scholar.google.com/ and didn't find anything for them. Do I just wait and see what they do next. 

 

No where near enough information to say whether there should be a next move or not.  What state are you in?  How much is the debt?  When is the date of first default?  

 

No point in sending another DV they have provided enough to be in compliance with the FCDPA in the response to your first letter. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No where near enough information to say whether there should be a next move or not. What state are you in? How much is the debt? When is the date of first default?

I live in NM (Credit was opened when I lived in GA,) Date of default was Jun 2011. All it shows on my credit report is that USAA charged it off. The debt is $5,000.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I live in NM (Credit was opened when I lived in GA,) Date of default was Jun 2011. All it shows on my credit report is that USAA charged it off. The debt is $5,000.

 

Where you were when the account was opened is not relevant for the purposes of a lawsuit.  If you have lived in NM for 6-12 months then they would sue you there as you have established legal residency for the purposes of court actions.  

 

The SOL for credit card lawsuits in NM is 4 years so you have one more year to go based on a DOFD 6/2011 and suit based on their laws.  New Mexico does not seem to have a borrowing statute that I can find so if there is a shorter SOL in the card agreement it likely would not apply.  

 

For a $5,000 debt with a SOL of 20 years on judgments, in state that allows wage garnishment, and a post judgment interest rate of 8.75%, that would be worth pursuing a lawsuit to a creditor.  I would lay low until that SOL expires and they couldn't sue me.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@maddiecat214

 

Welcome to CIC!

 

As far as a validation is concerned all they have to state is who the original creditor (OC) is. Sometimes they will give an account number and other times they may include computer generated copies of statements.

 

I'm not sure sending another letter will do anything other than invite a lawsuit. They have already validated the debt, so you are not going to get anything else out of them. At least not anything helpful.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you ever run into another situation like this just send them a letter stating something like "I dispute this and require validation".

 

The other information you asked for may be required for them to disclose if they sue you. I would just lay low for now and wait and see if they let the SOL expire. If they contact you after the SOL expires then you can send them a cease and desist letter. Then they will either go away or violate your rights under the FDCPA.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

@maddiecat214

 

Was the amount shown on the cc statements the same amount they claimed in their letter?

 

Does it have to be the same. I have a statement here that states

Billing Acct #: 345445456677

Bill Cycle close date: 01/07/12

Bill Due Date: 01/28/2012

Previous Balance Amt: $1139.58

Past due amount: $1134.96

Late Payment fee: $7.94

Total Amount Due: $1257.69

Combination of all adjustments/credits $-4.62

One Time Charges (Example:Early Termination or Collection Fees): $ 107.94

Combination of Fed, State, City Etc Taxes & Surcharges: $14.79

Now, midland/convergent in their debt validation listed the outstanding balance on all my CRA's as $1256.76

The balances shown r incorrect & differs from the last bill i know i have from Original creditor.

What do i do?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wasn't referring to a balance shown on a CR.  The reason I asked if the amount on the cc statements was the same amount given in the collection is for the purpose of validating the amount of the debt. 

 

If a CA/JDB claims you owe $2000 (without an explanation of that amount) but the cc statement from the OC only shows $1500, the CA hasn't validated or verified the amount being claimed.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@BV 80

 

This post is for a telephone bill which upon verification is a different amount then what shows originally on the telephone bill. The claimed amount is $1257.76 while the bill accrued until the date is for $1139.97

 

I would assume that the reason for the discrepancy is interest and/or collection fees.  Did they include a copy of the bill in response to your DV?  Or was their validation based upon their own bill...not the telephone bill?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would assume that the reason for the discrepancy is interest and/or collection fees.  Did they include a copy of the bill in response to your DV?  Or was their validation based upon their own bill...not the telephone bill?

It was based upon the Collection Agency's generated printout for what they got from T-Mobile. but it still counts as validation for they sent the bill. doesn't it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In Chaudhry v. Gallerizzo, the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that "verification of a debt involves nothing more than the debt collector confirming in writing that the amount being demanded is what the creditor is claiming is owed; the debt collector is not required to keep detailed files of the alleged debt."

 

You're in the 5th Circuit, but I think most courts agree with the ruling in Chaudhry.  Also, Midland is now allegedly the creditor.  In that case, they've validated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

I received a reply to a DV letter I sent when I got a summons from Midland- They sent me back a copy of a bill of sale with their signature and wells fargo  EVP  of operations signature on page 2, on the 1st page it says Bill of Sale, They blocked out in black Outstanding Balance of Accounts and Number of Accounts.

Another doc they sent me was a statement with my name and address from a year ago or a bit more and attached to that important info about your account.

Are these docs from them sufficient to make them valid on their side?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I received a reply to a DV letter I sent when I got a summons from Midland- They sent me back a copy of a bill of sale with their signature and wells fargo  EVP  of operations signature on page 2, on the 1st page it says Bill of Sale, They blocked out in black Outstanding Balance of Accounts and Number of Accounts.

Another doc they sent me was a statement with my name and address from a year ago or a bit more and attached to that important info about your account.

Are these docs from them sufficient to make them valid on their side?

 

They are if the court accepts this as enough proof or if you do not successfully dispute it and get it excluded prior to trial.  If the court accepts the minimum level of evidence then you are left to defend it at trial.  Some courts are quite rigid and require due diligence and a lot of proof and others are very creditor friendly.  You need to study up on your court specifically.  I would go down and watch a half day of credit card suits and see how the judge(s) tend to lean.  Then you can draft motions and start working on a defense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They are if the court accepts this as enough proof or if you do not successfully dispute it and get it excluded prior to trial.  If the court accepts the minimum level of evidence then you are left to defend it at trial.  Some courts are quite rigid and require due diligence and a lot of proof and others are very creditor friendly.  You need to study up on your court specifically.  I would go down and watch a half day of credit card suits and see how the judge(s) tend to lean.  Then you can draft motions and start working on a defense.

How do you successfully dispute it and get it excluded prior to trial.? Do you mean when answering the complaint place my documents of what I believe is proof?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How do you successfully dispute it and get it excluded prior to trial.? Do you mean when answering the complaint place my documents of what I believe is proof?

Processes/deadlines can vary by jurisdiction but these two webpages give an idea of how a civil case flows:

http://www.creditinfocenter.com/legal/how-lawsuits-work.shtml

http://www.creditinfocenter.com/legal/Civil%20Case%20FlowChart.pdf

 

This thread is titled, "What is adequate Debt Validation Paperwork from a collector?". The poster might get more visibility and better responses by starting a new topic of their own. Additionally, a search of  Midland on the forum might provide some good insights.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.. For more information, please see our Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.