CA Voluntarily Dismissed case - new CA collecting - Now What??

[MadAsHell]

Using this forum, I went to FL court Pro Se to fight collection on cc not in my name.  The CA could not provide anything that tied me to the account and entered voluntary dismissal in March 2013 before I could file for dismissal with prejudice.  I objected to the judge saying they would just sell the account to another CA and file again.  The judge told me it was unlikely since they have to pay to file.  Whatever!!!!!!!!!

 

I just got a collection letter from a new Fl CA representing the same JDB - Crown Asset Management, LLC out of GA. (This is about the 5th CA with the account now.)  How should I respond to the letter?  I have until Sept. 7 to dispute.  Do I really have to go through everything AGAIN??  They called me before sending the letter and I told them I had been to court and it had been dismissed and to leave me alone. They had nothing to indicated that in the file (of course!)

 

There is an attorney who advertises taking these cases on a contingency basis - maybe I should just try her.  Could I write a letter to the original judge to point out what happens.  Maybe I could sue the JDB - the energy and stress it took me the first time was too much.  I am no spring chicken,

 

Any help you can provide will be much appreciate.

[willingtocope]

Its called "bop - a - gopher".  DV the new CA.  Then, see if there is a www.naca.net lawyer in your are that will take the case on contingency.  The lawyer you found the ad for may be on the list...

[racecar]

If this was not your card fill this out get a police report and if you get sued again bring this to court.

Create an Identity Theft Report | Consumer Information

1. Submit a report about the theft to the FTC. When you finish writing all the details, print a copy of the report. It will be called an Identity Theft Affidavit.
2. Bring your FTC Identity Theft Affidavit when you file a police report.
3. File a police report about the identity theft, and get a copy of the police report or the report number. Your FTC Identity Theft Affidavit and your police report make an Identity Theft Report.

 

 

 

 

 

[racecar]

If it might be your debt send them this.

 

Debt Validation

 

Your Name

 

Your Address

 

Their Name

 

Their Address

 

Account number

　

 

Date

　

 

Dear _________________________,

 

This letter is in response to your letter dated 08/24/2013 (copy enclosed).

I dispute this alleged account in its entirety.

As per the FDCPA,I have the right to request proper validation of the alleged debt.

　

All phone calls are inconvenient, so all communications needs to be by us mail only.

 

Best Regards,

 

Your Name

　

[ArtVandelay]

In your situation I would do the following:

 

- Send them a letter that says " I dispute this and require validation" and nothing more. Send it CMRR and have someone witness you putting the letter in the envelope and mailing it.

 

- Do not talk to them. It rarely every accomplishes anything other than giving them more information about you.

 

- Do not write the judge. The judge plays no role in what is going on now.

 

- Record any messages they send you and keep all letters including the envelopes. Document all dates they communicate with you in any form including taking pictures of your caller ID even when they do not leave a message.

 

After you send the DV letter I would sit back and see what they do. They may go away since you already beat them. Check and see how long they have to file another suit against you in FL. In Tennessee  they have to file the second suit within a year. 

 

I would not worry about hiring an attorney unless you have some documented FDCPA Violations. You might have a shot at them for filing a lawsuit without having or the ability to get the evidence to prove their case. This may or may not fly in FL. You will need to search to see if any case law exists to back this up. Check and see what the SOL is for the OC involved. If its shorter than the FL. SOL then you might be able to use it. 

 

Unfortunately this is how the system works. You will just need to be patient. 

[willingtocope]

- Send them a letter that says " I dispute this and require validation" and nothing more. Send it CMRR and have someone witness you putting the letter in the envelope and mailing it.

 

You can accomplish the same thing by putting the CMRRR Reference Number in the letter...

 

RE: Certfied Mail - Return Receipt Requested #xxxxxxxxx

 

I wne to the post office and got a dozen or so CMRRR tags for just such purposes...

[Harry Seaward]

You can accomplish the same thing by putting the CMRRR Reference Number in the letter...

...unless they claim the envelope was empty, like RJM tried to do to me once.

[MadAsHell]

Thank you one and all.   I was dreading it all starting up again so was procrastinating which I know is a dreadful mistake in these cases!   I feel better already and can hop right on it now.  What great and speedy support!  I'm sure I will be back, but for now I am all set thanks to you.

[MadAsHell]

If this was not your card fill this out get a police report and if you get sued again bring this to court.

Create an Identity Theft Report | Consumer Information

1. Submit a report about the theft to the FTC. When you finish writing all the details, print a copy of the report. It will be called an Identity Theft Affidavit.
2. Bring your FTC Identity Theft Affidavit when you file a police report.
3. File a police report about the identity theft, and get a copy of the police report or the report number. Your FTC Identity Theft Affidavit and your police report make an Identity Theft Report.

 

 

 

 

 

racecar - I will save this suggestion in case of ID theft.  For this situation, I know it is a relative's card that was charged off in bankruptcy.  I never co-signed or guaranteed it, but we had a joint account together at one time and somehow it tracked to me.  The copy of a statement they were going to supply at the last hearing didn't even have my name on it, or anything else connecting me to it.  That is why I wanted a chance to fight it and have it over with, but they beat me to the punch.  It was a joke - just not funny.

[Torden]

This is an example of another source of "not mine" debts ... CA/JDB mix ups.  And it might well be as common as ID theft.  It's very often intentional.

 

Some people would just C&D the JDB directly, and watch their CR for opportunities to sue.

[BV80]

Unless a court rules that you don't owe the money, a dismissal with or without prejudice doesn't prevent the JDB from attempting to collect. 

 

If there's no way that they can have records showing that you are responsible for the account, I would send a refusal to pay to both the CA AND to Crown Asset.  A refusal to pay is the same as a cease and desist but not all CAs and JDBs know that fact.  If Crown hires another CA who attempts to collect, consult with an attorney.

 

In the letter, simply state that the account does not belong to you, you are not responsible for it, and you refuse to pay.

[HotWheels96]

Unless a court rules that you don't owe the money, a dismissal with or without prejudice doesn't prevent the JDB from attempting to collect. 

 

If there's no way that they can have records showing that you are responsible for the account, I would send a refusal to pay to both the CA AND to Crown Asset.  A refusal to pay is the same as a cease and desist but not all CAs and JDBs know that fact.  If Crown hires another CA who attempts to collect, consult with an attorney.

 

In the letter, simply state that the account does not belong to you, you are not responsible for it, and you refuse to pay.

This is so correct! I sent a refusal to pay to PRA, and they continued to mail letter after letter.

 

I sent one to Citibank's CA and Citibank has sent me three envelopes since then.

[WhoCares1000]

In general, someone suing you can do a dismissal w/o prejudice on their first try and usually get it without a fight. The judge just said what he did to give a reason for a ruling that is generally known. In other words, don't worry about this and at this point, do not contact the judge. The case is closed so the judge really does not care. However, if they new CA/JDB does file a new case, the new judge will care if they try for another dismissal w/o prejudice. Most states civil procedure rules gives the plaintiff 2 bites at the apple before the defendant wins their case. So keep everything from the first case (which is good advice anyways because you can start there without reinventing the wheel) just in case they do sue.

As for renewed collections, a case dismissed w/o prejudice is not considered resolved at all. Dismissed w/prejudice and judgement for the defendant is considered resolved but they can still call you and ask you nicely to pay the debt, even if you prove you did not owe it. I am sure there are those on this board that have been able to sue CA/JDBs over debts that were resolved in the courts. In other word, no matter the outcome, they would sell it anyways.

So the question becomes, what will you do here. Either a DV or a refusal to pay will work at this point. If they call, simply repeat your refusal to pay and tell them the only way this will get resolved is in court and hang up. You actually want to dare these people to sue you at this point. Realize too that the SOL clock is still ticking at the point of DOFD so they have a deadline coming up behind them. They might sue you but more likely, they will either violate law or sell the debt.

Finally, as for the collector saying that there are no notes about the case, that may or may not be true. Depends on the organization and their requirements. Always assume that if you are talked to a debt collector, they are lying when their lips are moving and forming words.

[MadAsHell]

The latest posts bring up a question for me.  Should I mail BOTH a DV and Refusal to Pay letter, or just the Refusal to pay?

 

In addition, while I was preparing a DV letter I noticed a second return address with no company identification from another state on their collection letter.  I googled it and it is the address for Portfolio Recovery in PA which I recognize from posts in these forums.  So that is another new player.  Do I send something to all of them?

 

JBD:  Crown Assest Management, LLC - Georgia

CA:    Central Credit Services, Inc.- Jacksonville, FL

?:        Portfolio Recovery, Oaks, PA 19456

 

Just FYI, the CA who filed and dismissed suit was Andreu, Palma & Andreu out of Miami, FL

Prior to them there were collection attempts by the OC and then 3 other CAs.  I had an attorney write the OC for DV and Cease and Desist and thereafter ignored all other CAs until I received the summons.  So am I going to be writing these dang things til I die?  Do I dare just ignore them unless they go to court?

[BV80]

@MadAsHell

 

Technically, you could mail a DV and a C&D at the same time, but it would be counterproductive.  When you request validation, you want them to validate.  A C&D tells them to leave you alone.  However, if you send a C&D, they can contact you once more to let you know of their intentions.  They may tell you that they're going to sue or that they're closing their files.  But they cannot include any language that would request that you pay the debt.

 

I'm not sure they'd validate AND then say, "even though we're validating, we're not trying to collect this debt."   Does that make sense?

 

If it's not your account and you're not responsible for it, I'd end it once and for all.

 

 

In addition, while I was preparing a DV letter I noticed a second return address with no company identification from another state on their collection letter.

 

Was this on the same collection letter from Crown?

 

I googled it and it is the address for Portfolio Recovery in PA which I recognize from posts in these forums.

 

Are you sure?  Portfolio is out of VA.  I suppose they could have more than one office, but their corporate office is in VA.

[racecar]

Send this to anyone who has contacted you about a debt.

You don't want to C&D because then they have no choice but to sue you.

Even if they are going to sue you it buys you a few weeks to study on how to beat a junk debt buyer in court.

You may also want to check your credit to see who is holding any of your debts. Its free to check.

https://www.annualcreditreport.com/cra/index.jsp Its from the FTC so its safe to use.

 

 

 

 

Debt Validation

 

Your Name

 

Your Address

 

Their Name

 

Their Address

 

Account number

　

 

Date

　

 

Dear _________________________,

 

This letter is in response to your letter dated 08/24/2013 (copy enclosed).

I dispute this alleged account in its entirety.

As per the FDCPA,I have the right to request proper validation of the alleged debt.

　

All phone calls are inconvenient, so all communications needs to be by us mail only.

 

Best Regards,

 

Your Name

[BV80]

@racecar

 

 

Send this to anyone who has contacted you about a debt.

You don't want to C&D because then they have no choice but to sue you.

 

 

 

This is just to clarify.  If the debt is still within the SOL, Racecar makes an excellent point.  However, if the debt is no longer within the SOL, it depends upon your goal.   This is based upon a debt that's time-barred, sold to a JDB, and whether you want to prevent the current owner and any CAs from contacting you.

 

If the debt is still owned by the OC, and they've hired a CA to collect, you can send a DV or a C&D.  In the instance that the CA validates the debt, they can still make collection attempts.  If you want to shut the CA down, send a C&D.   But, the OC can hire another CA.  You can't stop them from doing so unless the debt is not yours.

 

In the instance that the debt has been sold to a JDB and the JDB has hired a CA to collect, if you want to shut down both the JDB and the CA, send a C&D to both entities.   If the JDB hires another CA to collect and that CA contacts you, it's possible that you would have an FDCPA violation for continued collection against the JDB.

 

Take note that the JDB could sell the account to another JDB and you'd have to wash, rinse, repeat.

[Harry Seaward]

@racecar

 

Send this to anyone who has contacted you about a debt.

You don't want to C&D because then they have no choice but to sue you.

 

 

 

This is just to clarify.  If the debt is still within the SOL, Racecar makes an excellent point.  However, if the debt is no longer within the SOL, it depends upon your goal.   This is based upon a debt that's time-barred, sold to a JDB, and whether you want to prevent the current owner and any CAs from contacting you.

As @BV80 mentioned earlier, if you are certain you do not owe the debt, there is no possible way they could successfully validate it and, in my option, asking for them to do so in this case is a complete waste of everyone's time. Not being able to validate doesn't stop them from suing most of the time anyway.

[WhoCares1000]

Not being able to DV might not stop them from suing but it does give you a FDCPA claim in the case because they are suppose to validate before continuing collection activity.

[MadAsHell]

@MadAsHell

 

Technically, you could mail a DV and a C&D at the same time, but it would be counterproductive.  When you request validation, you want them to validate.  A C&D tells them to leave you alone.  However, if you send a C&D, they can contact you once more to let you know of their intentions.  They may tell you that they're going to sue or that they're closing their files.  But they cannot include any language that would request that you pay the debt.

 

I'm not sure they'd validate AND then say, "even though we're validating, we're not trying to collect this debt."   Does that make sense?

 

If it's not your account and you're not responsible for it, I'd end it once and for all.

 

 

 

Was this on the same collection letter from Crown?

 

 

Are you sure?  Portfolio is out of VA.  I suppose they could have more than one office, but their corporate office is in VA.

It was on the same collection letter from Central Credit Services, Inc. out of Jacksonville, FL who id's Crown Asset Management, LLC as the "Current Creditor".  The address is above a barcode in the upper left corner of the letter and is:  P.O. Box 1259, Dept. #102071, Oaks, PA 19456.  I just googled it again and it comes up with numerous names attached, including:  Enhanced Recovery Co, Associated Recovery Systems, First Consumers National Bank, First Revenue Assurance, Midland Credit Management, and I'm sure there are many others, all with same PO Box, but different department numbers and some are from years ago.  One more layer in the biggest racket in the US!

[KentWA]

If they attempt to sue again I would counter claim at least for Declaratory Judgement with injunction that the debt is not yours. This prevents them from just dismissing again and puts you in control. The other option is to file a Declaratory Judgement action against them before they get the chance to do anything. With judgement in hand you can make the CRAs remove anything they may have placed on your credit report, etc. Either way, when they want to settle you say, fine as long as there is a consent judgement. They will just love that.

[MadAsHell]

If they attempt to sue again I would counter claim at least for Declaratory Judgement with injunction that the debt is not yours. This prevents them from just dismissing again and puts you in control. The other option is to file a Declaratory Judgement action against them before they get the chance to do anything. With judgement in hand you can make the CRAs remove anything they may have placed on your credit report, etc. Either way, when they want to settle you say, fine as long as there is a consent judgement. They will just love that.

I will definitely look into your suggestions - it sounds like fun!

 

BTW - I was just reading over the Court Order of Voluntary Dismissal from the last time.  It says " The court, having been advised by CAM1 LLC..., the Plaintiff(s) in the above styled cause that the claim has been settled, thereupon:  (words ordering case be voluntarily dismissed).  I had not read it before, or at least not noted the wording.  Is this usual wording.  To me it says CAM1 agreed with me to settle somehow.  What do ya'll make of it???

[WhoCares1000]

Yes, you informed them that the claim was invalid and they agreed. Hence, the case is settled. I would not worry about the wording because a settlement can be done where you do not pay a dime (in fact, when FDCPA counterclaims are files, the final settlement is usually where both parties do not pay anything).

[MadAsHell]

Yes, you informed them that the claim was invalid and they agreed. Hence, the case is settled. I would not worry about the wording because a settlement can be done where you do not pay a dime (in fact, when FDCPA counterclaims are files, the final settlement is usually where both parties do not pay anything).

Except that they have another CA trying to get me to pay it again.  If it is "settled" by court order, is that legal to do.  I am writing to both the JDB and CA to tell them the debt is not mine and that I am not paying.  Maybe I should be taking a different approach if it was "settled" already???  I'm confused I guess.

[WhoCares1000]

idLets understand that even if you had gone to trial and you as the defendant won a judgement stating that the debt was not your debt, the debt could still be sold and they can still call and ask nicely if you wish to pay the debt. Only 2 states have laws that forbid that and FL is not one of them. In other words, no matter what happened in court, unless as part of the settlement, you requested that the debt not be sold, Midland can sell it to the next JDB in line. That is how the debt buying market works.

The best course of action would be to keep the case file aside and tell the current JDB that you refuse to pay the debt. That will force them to either sue you, sell the debt, or violate the FDCPA. Those are their 3 choices, they have no other choice. If they violate the FDCPA, well I am sure you know what to do. If they sell the debt, then you do the same to the next JDB in line. If they sue you, then you fight the case like you did with Midland but keep the paperwork for the previous case so that if they try to dismiss, you can demand that the dismissal is with prejudice because it would be abusive and a waste of the courts time to allow another bite of the apple (plus, you are entitled to your day in court to prove your innocence as much as they are to prove their claim).

I think you are reading too much into this. Follow the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid).