Sharleemar

Help! Old West themed bank is Strong Arming me.

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Thanks for looking at my inquiry and I hope to be clear to the reader.

 

Little history: Back in 10/2010 we filed for BK due to not getting paid from contract work for nearly 8 months. We finally got paid and voluntarily dismissed the BK and paid the creditors thus playing catch up.  Secure creditors we re-affirmed during the BK (like the Old West themed bank loan) and all were not prejudiced.

July 2013, I called to bank to get a final payoff on the auto loan. It was $300 (the regular mo/payment was $820).  They then said there are two amounts in the system: One for $300 payoff and other for $7,200.  To my surprise, I of course disputed the $7K amount. I asked them to investigate it.  I knew I sent in extra $ ea month since 2010 to pay it off early (before Jan 2014).

 

End of July for Aug payment, I get a new statement saying I owe $59 and $220 in past late fees all due on Aug 21st.  No other amount on the statement, no notes, nothing. So I assumed the $7K was a mistake and was cleared up. So now THE FINAL pay off is the $279 payment. Ok, I don’t like it but sent that off with a note that says “Paid in Full” ~ whew!

 

Now the DRAMA unfolds… I get a call from the Old West themed bank saying that I am 3 months behind in payments and that the auto will be up for Repo BUT because it is still in their BK Department they haven’t moved on the repo yet. I of course demanded an explanation: The person said that since I filed for a BK they automatically reduced the value of the note for the BK (? Okay…) but due to their “bad accounting system” (her words) we still owe this amount per the contract. I completely disagreed since I have nothing from them in the way of a current statement, or when I was in pro se informing me of the value reduction (which they said they do not tell the consumer they do that). PLUS we re-affirmed the debt ~ so there shouldn’t have been any change to the amount anyway). She then said that, “I have been put on notice in July about the amount that is due and that I need to pay it.”

 

Back history note: Never having asked for a deferment and I knowing the loan was nearly paid off I asked for one in December 2012. It was granted and they said my next payment would be Jan 21st; I would have to pay the $25, and to expect a note in the mail such. In January 2013 I finally get a statement with a $25 credit and that‘s it. ?? I knew I didn’t pay the $ so I called them to get clarification. They said they did not allow the deferment after all due to the account being in a BK and that I am now behind on my payment.  So really... who was put on notice? I told them again, that I am not in the BK any longer by a voluntarily dismissal as of 2011, as well as, have been receiving normal statements and making normal payments.

 

To date, I have nothing in the way of a statement or amount change AND all my statements show the collateral being reduced by our payments being credited like normal ea mo.  

Back In April 2012, the car was repoed (we got it back although it was completely damaged and it never had a scratch on it – seriously!) That’s another issue for another time.

 

My questions are:

1.       How can they just “say” I have a balance with nothing to show that I do???

2.       Saying the account has been in the BK Dept since 2010 BUT they repoed the car in 2011???

The amounts on the Repo docs show the collateral amount at the correct amount that I have now paid off.

3.       Shouldn’t they have the accounting together by now (3 years later)?

4.       The last credit report from them is Oct 2010.

5.       If they cash the check as “paid in full” – is it paid in full?

6.       I have the copy of the last payment check and the statement – in case a repo guy comes again.

7.       Where do I go with this? File small claims? A injunction civil something?

It appears the Old West themed bank will not budge, prove the debt and is threatening to take my only means to transportation for my job and family.

 

I’m living in panic of being repoed again (last time I was left 60 miles from home at a clients office and no one to get me for 8 hours ~ embarrassing to say the least).

 

In advance ~ thanks for bouncing back any answer. 

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You have a statement saying that you owed a specific amount for the car, and you have proof you paid that amount, as well as a check cashed for that amount with the language "paid in full". If you were being sued and were in trial you would have everything you need to win.

The problem, is you have a repo man armed with proper repo paper work. As a former car lot owner / dealer (an honest one) I do know a bit about how the repo business operates. The car will eventually be repossessed then sold at auction. You would probably be sent a bill for the remaining amount you owed after the car sells because it will probably be sold for less then they say you owe (if it sells for more they owe you the difference).

The dealership where you purchased the vehicle had to file forms with the DMV to get the repo papers approved. I think this is the only area you can attack NOW before the vehicles is repoed and you can actually claim to be damaged and sue.

Go to the state DMV website and look up the dealer under license search. It will provide you with the company and phone # that provided the dealership's bond. The bond company may not be able to do much now (but if you lose the car they might) but NO dealer wants to have problems or hear from the bond company (if money is taken from a dealers bond and it is no longer worth the same amount; the dealership will be shut down until a new bond is purchased (a big ordeal). Starting a complaint here will not be good for them.

Also on the DMV website (and important) find out who the DMV inspector is. The dealer's answer to these inspectors (it's the LAST thing you want to see on your lot)they don't stand in line at the DMV and deal with the same DMV workers as the rest of us. A complaint here should have some results as well. The bank has to be working with the dealer to an extent, and whoever "adjusted" the value amount of the vehicle (a common practice) has committed fraud.

I don't know what else you could do at this time; other than a complete searching of the undercarriage and under the hood of the car for a GPS tracking device (used locate cars for repo purposes). It is very possible the dealer placed one of these tracking devices on your car (as well as a fake "decoy" GPS to throw you off).

Hope that helps, Good Luck.

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Thanks Anon Amos. Of course I didn't want to hear (read) that they will take the car but appreciate you scaring me. :) 

 

I think the dealer is completely out of the equation at this point. I bought it from the Jeep dealer in 2009 and financed with the Old Western themed bank (WF).

 

When it was repoed in 2012 the dealer wasn't involved then. It's the bank saying they changed the note value in 2010 but now wants to add it back in since I have paid off the amount they lowered it to. 

 

I guess - I just don't understand that after 3 years I am paying the loan on what I understand to be the correct amount per statement, the 2012 repo papers show the itemized breakdown of the amount to pay off or reinstate with fees, the collections department shows the amount I show BUT the BK department shows an additional $7,200. 

 

I think I will have to file something with the state Attny Gen office. I have a lawyer looking at this on Tuesday. 

 

So... what would the GPS tracker look like? Last time they tracked me using my cell phone. Sounds paranoid I know, but I was on the cell with my client, getting ready to take off in the car. A woman came on the line between us saying "we hit the target, we hit the target” Then 20 minutes later it was being taken by the tow truck. 

 

Thank you again. 

 

 

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Thanks Anon Amos. Of course I didn't want to hear (read) that they will take the car but appreciate you scaring me. :-) 

 

 

I think the dealer is completely out of the equation at this point. I bought it from the Jeep dealer in 2009 and financed with the Old Western themed bank (WF).

 

 

When it was repoed in 2012 the dealer wasn't involved then. It's the bank saying they changed the note value in 2010 but now wants to add it back in since I have paid off the amount they lowered it to. 

 

 

I guess - I just don't understand that after 3 years I am paying the loan on what I understand to be the correct amount per statement, the 2012 repo papers show the itemized breakdown of the amount to pay off or reinstate with fees, the collections department shows the amount I show BUT the BK department shows an additional $7,200. 

 

 

I think I will have to file something with the state Attny Gen office. I have a lawyer looking at this on Tuesday. 

 

 

So... what would the GPS tracker look like? Last time they tracked me using my cell phone. Sounds paranoid I know, but I was on the cell with my client, getting ready to take off in the car. A woman came on the line between us saying "we hit the target, we hit the target” Then 20 minutes later it was being taken by the tow truck. 

 

 

Thank you again. 

 

 

 

My next suggestion would be talking to a lawyer and the attorney general, so you will probably be OK. They usually put a small black box with a flashing light (the decoy) under the hood in a fairly easy place to spot. Then the real one under the hood or in the truck somewhere or wheel wells (someplace hard to spot), if there is in fact one on the car. You can google "car dealer GPS tracking device" to learn more and see a picture of one.

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Sometimes it's in behind the steering wheel - it will have a bar coded FCC ID  and a fuse on it... unhook the battery, remove the fuse and then reconnect the battery - it will be offline.

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So... what would the GPS tracker look like?

 

If you know a good mechanic - especially one that knows your particular kind of vehicle, I'd ask them to look - they'll probably have a good idea where this thing might be located, and even if not, probably a good eye for something out of place.  Otherwise you might be suspicious of something that's actually a normal part of the car.

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Thanks for the good info. 

 

Here is an update.  I sent a complaint in with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. They sent the complaint to WellsFargo and expect a response within 15 days. 

 

My attny won't have this until Friday.

 

In the meantime I had to call WellsFargo to discuss a payment or they would take other actions (meaning to repo the car). 

 

In that discussion they said they charged off the amount in 2010 because when I filed the BK 13 they anticipated not getting that amount based on the value of the car. But because the case was dismissed the $6,900 is still due I will need to pay it. Don't get me wrong, I do not disagree that I need to pay the debt - IF I actually owe. 

 

My quandary:

 

WF says they cannot send me a statement or bill because "their system is not supported to do that based on a ZERO balance on the account." 

So, NOT SENDING any more bills/statements to pay toward, that I need to just send money on the 21st each month anyway, even though they will not send me a bill, a balance, show the amount being paid down, etc. makes no sense to me. They say, I must send a payment and that  I "should just know what I need to pay each month, when to pay it, and for how long to pay the balance out."   

 

They kept saying to read my contract and that I "should know that I haven't paid the entire amount".  Re-reading the contract doesn’t tell me how much I paid to date or currently owe. Come on! 

 

 ~ they say I am 3 months behind in payments RIGHT NOW, even though the statement I just paid against says the payment of $59 was due on August 21st.  I asked how they justify that  - I got no real response other than the $59 was a partial payment and the $363 was a partial payment the month before. Three months equals $2613.  

 

I asked them to show me the justification of being 3 months behind and the response was that they will send me a payment history and I can go off that and the contract to make future payments. 

 

I recorded the conversation (as recommended) and I listened to the response and I am just floored and confused. I am waiting for the payments history to compare to my actual checking accounts. 

 

QUESTION: Anybody have this issue of just sending money without the debt information? The account shows paid off (ZERO balance) - can they do that? Are their some legal rules somewhere? I'm simply confused. 

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I wouldn't pay them anything unless they can send some justification for the balance they claim is owed.  You indicated in your first post thet the debt was reaffirmed in the Bankruptcy.  IIRC, that document (the reaffirmation agreement) becomes a new, binding agreement, superseding the original contract.  If you have paid the full amount due under the reaffirmation agreement, that is probably the reason they won't send you anything showing a balance.

 

This is beyond shady.  Get together with an attorney quickly.

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CG in TX has a good point. When you filed BK, that has the effect of ending all contracts. When you reaffirmed the debt, the reaffirmation agreement becomes the new contract, the old contract being nullified in the court. If they reaffirmed at a lesser amount, then they must accept that under the reaffirmed contract.

What this sounds like is that they did the reaffirmation figuring that you would default and they would be able to take the car and then sue you because you used the BK card. Now that you finished the new reaffirmed contract, they are not happy and want to go back to the old terms.

If you had a attorney do the BK, I would suggest talking to them first. They might be able to reopen the case and file an adverse hearing against Wells Fargo which would stop Wells Fargo from repoing the car. Wells Fargo would then have to explain to the court why they are going back to the old agreement when that was nullified. There might even be some sanctions in there for their actions.

This may explain why the case is still in the BK department. They know that it could end up back in BK court.

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UPDATE: I received the pink slip in the mail. Then the next day I receive a letter from a collection company saying I owe $5,000.

I will respond to them before the 30 days showing a zero balance and pink slip. RIGHT? 

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UPDATE: I received the pink slip in the mail. Then the next day I receive a letter from a collection company saying I owe $5,000.

I will respond to them before the 30 days showing a zero balance and pink slip. RIGHT? 

I think I would respond with a DV or a refusal to pay. I wouldn't show them a copy of a pink slip. If you have the car, and pink slip (with no lien holder) there's no reason you would owe them anything.

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