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Just wondering.........


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I was reading through all of the various posts and reading of the crap people are going through and I was just wondering, if a person's situation warranted it, why not proceed with filing bankruptcy and rid of all this nonsense of dealing with these JDB's and lawsuits, etc?     While I understand that people may have their reason(s) for not wanting to file BK, I can say that in my case, it has eliminated crap that I had hanging over my head for years.   I am now so relieved since my discharge and my BK case being closed words can't describe.  I should have done this a long time ago, but I had my personal reasons why I didn't want to.

 

I am not saying don't defend yourself where you should, I am just saying, if you have a mounting debt problem, then it may make reasonable sense to consider filing bankruptcy to assist you with getting your life back in line and moving forward without the hassles of these creditors, especially JDB's and their lawsuits, etc etc.

 

Sure, you may say that a BK hangs on your report for 7 years (CH 13) and 10 years (CH 7), but with all of the re-aging these JDB's were doing to my credit report,  I believe this is an irrelevant point, as these collections accounts would have sat on my report, probably longer than the BK will now.   And it seemed like every time a JDB would sell the account and a new JDB take over, a new trade line would appear with that new date, further aging the reporting of a debt that the OC may have dropped off years ago.   Sure I could have fought these JDB's for FDCPA violations, but it would have just been a revolving door with my having to fight the next JDB buying and then listing the new trade line... it would have gone on and on, costing me far more than what my BK filing cost which put an end to all the nonsense these JDBs pull.

 

Regarding my credit score, sure it took a hit, but has come back over 50+ points in the 3 months since I have filed and I am on my way back to having stellar credit once again.   And believe me, you will be able to rent a apartment, buy a car, obtain new credit, etc. with having a BK on your record,  Sure you may pay more, but no more than having a bunch of collections and charge-offs on your CR.   I will just pay cash for a less expensive car and not get any new unsecured credit cards.  I will use cash and obtain secured credit lines to use as a credit building tool.

 

This is just my input from what I have gained from my own experiences with JDB's and filing BK.   If you are dealing with a lot of BS from debt and especially JDBs, then you should seriously consider using your right of filing BK.    

 

Feel free to post any questions / comments you may have.... 

 

P954

 

 

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Paradise954, I believe there is a mixed-bag of situations here. Some do not owe a debt and are fighting. Some really do owe, but are fighting it because a 3rd pty JBD has bought the 'alleged' debt. Some have no income to come after, and still others are fine financially, but do not want to pay IN FULL what a JDB purchased for 2cents on the dollar.

Bankruptcy is HUGE, as you know -- and not for everyone. Matter of fact, many on the forum would not qualify to file for bankruptcy protection. It IS a last resort, if you have lost your job or income has otherwise been negatively compromised because of the economy.

ANYONE can FILE for bankruptcy -- not all qualify. There is a diverse group here. You make very valid points, but there is the 'other side.'

Thanks,

Jimmy

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Paradise954, I believe there is a mixed-bag of situations here. Some do not owe a debt and are fighting. Some really do owe, but are fighting it because a 3rd pty JBD has bought the 'alleged' debt. Some have no income to come after, and still others are fine financially, but do not want to pay IN FULL what a JDB purchased for 2cents on the dollar.

Bankruptcy is HUGE, as you know -- and not for everyone. Matter of fact, many on the forum would not qualify to file for bankruptcy protection. It IS a last resort, if you have lost your job or income has otherwise been negatively compromised because of the economy.

ANYONE can FILE for bankruptcy -- not all qualify. There is a diverse group here. You make very valid points, but there is the 'other side.'

Thanks,

Jimmy

Jimmy,

 

Thanks for the reply.  Anyone can "qualify" for filing personal bankruptcy. It is your right as a US citizen to do so.   The issue would be whether the person filing would qualify for Chapter 7 or Chapter 13 (talking personal BK here).  

 

I make good money and was able to retain a very good attorney who understood bankruptcy very well and qualified me for Chapter 7.   Thanks to a good attorney who knew what they were doing, my case went without issue and actually received my discharge AND Final Decree signed by the BK judge on same day which closed my case for good.   This judge didn't mess around.  If any creditor did not file any motion or proof of claim with the court by my discharge date, they were SOL with this judge.    No proof of claims or adversary actions were filed by the date the Federal Court stipulated so the judge put the hammer down and closed my case.   So bad, so sad creditors.   But again, this is a result of having a good attorney representing me.

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People fight because it could be lucrative to fight rather than fold and file for BK. With FDCPA and TCPA claims, there would be money to be had. Also, unlike the old days, many of the banks were shoddy with their record keeping and most of those filing the lawsuits are JDBs with even shoddier record practices than the banks. Now this may change but until it does, one has a good chance on winning. The same goes for re-aging. If proven, one could be able to make money off of it.

Also, you cannot declare Chapter 7 BK for 8 years after a successful chapter 7 discharge. You can do a chapter 13 but that is more hassle. Many people here do not want to burn that card unless they absolutely have to. If they can fight and win, better to do that and save the chapter 7 BK card for a time when it is needed.

I did a Chapter 7 BK many moons ago and I almost wish I would have waited. The collector that scared me into doing it committed quite a few violations. Had I known then what I know now, I would have went on the offensive. I might still have needed to use the Chapter 7 BK in the end but I would have made a few dollars and maybe even wiped out a huge debt in the process.

That is why people fight. Remember, people have compared Chapter 7 BK to a nuclear weapon and you really do not know the collateral damage that can occur when you use it.

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Some here have pulled the trigger. I think many of those who haven't choose against it after weighing their options.

 

I worked in home loans for a few years and worked with people who had done BKs. You can get indeed get healthy again, credit-wise, after a few years. I think it's a viable option, but obviously after a good time weighing those options.

 

Me, I only have defaulted credit card debt (3.5 years old) and student loans which wouldn't be covered under a BK; I'm keeping up with those anyway. A BK would only make the collections go away, but I don't fear creditors like I did just a year ago (thanks CIC). I'm in the midst of my first suit with a JDB and expect a few more suits next summer when the SOL runs out on those. Most of the accounts (the big ones at least) have been sold by the OCs so I can handle the JDBs when they come. Now that I've been through it, I think it will be considerably less of a distraction the next time around.

 

So for me it's 1 more year, give or take, of dealing with potential lawsuits and 4 more years of this mess being on my CR. I'd rather not pull the trigger on a BK that will stay on my CR for 7 years. I don't plan on buying a home in the next 4 years, so I'm good with it. If I was planning on buying a home anytime soon, however, I would consider a BK as I could recover from that in only 2 years.

 

Just depends on the person.

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Thanks Who for the response. I understand your point. My filing was far more than JDB issues and folding to them. I had other issues to clean up and BK chapter 7 took care of them. This was purely strategic on my behalf. I knew that had I not filed, I would have been dealing with my financial issues for many more years, so filing was best option given my situation.

Of course each person must examine there own circumstances and deal with them as they feel best.

P954

People fight because it could be lucrative to fight rather than fold and file for BK. With FDCPA and TCPA claims, there would be money to be had. Also, unlike the old days, many of the banks were shoddy with their record keeping and most of those filing the lawsuits are JDBs with even shoddier record practices than the banks. Now this may change but until it does, one has a good chance on winning. The same goes for re-aging. If proven, one could be able to make money off of it.

Also, you cannot declare Chapter 7 BK for 8 years after a successful chapter 7 discharge. You can do a chapter 13 but that is more hassle. Many people here do not want to burn that card unless they absolutely have to. If they can fight and win, better to do that and save the chapter 7 BK card for a time when it is needed.

I did a Chapter 7 BK many moons ago and I almost wish I would have waited. The collector that scared me into doing it committed quite a few violations. Had I known then what I know now, I would have went on the offensive. I might still have needed to use the Chapter 7 BK in the end but I would have made a few dollars and maybe even wiped out a huge debt in the process.

That is why people fight. Remember, people have compared Chapter 7 BK to a nuclear weapon and you really do not know the collateral damage that can occur when you use it.

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Ryan,

Good post and thanks for sharing. While "near impossible" to discharge student loans in BK, don't entirely write that off as it is possible to discharge given specific circumstances. ;)

The strategy you have chosen makes sense given your explanation.

I do enjoy screwing up these JDBs and by no means imply that people shouldn't stand up to them. Absolutely agree there is a bunch of $$ to get from them via FDCPA and FCRA violations.

This

I wish you best in your fight with JDBs. CIC was a tremendous help with my dealings with the lawsuits that were filed against me by ASSclowns. Of course the BK was a total knockout for me against them and glad they had wasted their time and money in filing their suits against me. I figure they probably lost a grand or two. Serves them right. Total ASSclowns!!

Some here have pulled the trigger. I think many of those who haven't choose against it after weighing their options.

I worked in home loans for a few years and worked with people who had done BKs. You can get indeed get healthy again, credit-wise, after a few years. I think it's a viable option, but obviously after a good time weighing those options.

Me, I only have defaulted credit card debt (3.5 years old) and student loans which wouldn't be covered under a BK; I'm keeping up with those anyway. A BK would only make the collections go away, but I don't fear creditors like I did just a year ago (thanks CIC). I'm in the midst of my first suit with a JDB and expect a few more suits next summer when the SOL runs out on those. Most of the accounts (the big ones at least) have been sold by the OCs so I can handle the JDBs when they come. Now that I've been through it, I think it will be considerably less of a distraction the next time around.

So for me it's 1 more year, give or take, of dealing with potential lawsuits and 4 more years of this mess being on my CR. I'd rather not pull the trigger on a BK that will stay on my CR for 7 years. I don't plan on buying a home in the next 4 years, so I'm good with it. If I was planning on buying a home anytime soon, however, I would consider a BK as I could recover from that in only 2 years.

Just depends on the person.

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The reason some of us fight is the principal. Some people are not in deep enough for BK. Some, like myself, fight because we have learned the law, and the fact that most bill collectors cannot prove jack squat in court, they are hoping they get a fast default judgment.

 

It does not take that long to learn how the junk debt buyers operate and how to beat them. I fight because I absolutely hate the debt collection industry. Someone who would pray on innocent god fearing people just for the sake of putting a few bucks in their pocket is the lowest people on earth. Plus if we just let them walk on us they will keep doing it, the sooner we get more people to start waving the constitution and using the laws they created against them the better.

 

I have never sworn an oath fight for "we the bankers" but I did take an oath to uphold the Constitution and "We the people" I hate seeing these big corporations think because they have money they can pound us in the sand and walk all over our rights. We need to take a stand and tell them we will no longer just hand the money over, if you want you got to prove it first.

 

they have a philosophy that goes something like this:  If I violate your rights, you may or may not know about it, if you know about it, you may or may not be able to do something about it, if you do have an ability to do something about it, you may not have the financial means to go to a finished program, if you do have the financial means you may or may not have the intestinal fortitude to go to a finished program.

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Like what many others here have posted it is a personal decision. It is the best way for some, but every situation is different. I was actually considering it at one time and lucky for me I didn't have the money to file. I had spoken to a couple of attorneys and one had just attended an FDCPA Boot Camp. I talked with him about a lawsuit that I was dealing at the time and told him everything that was going on. He looked over my paperwork and discovered some FDCPA violations. He offered to represent me for 500., but before I told him I didn't have the money he paused. He said it looks like you are doing fine. He said for me to continue Pro SE and that I could hire him if I lost and needed to appeal. He also offered to look over everything I filed with the court free of charge.

 

So a couple of months later I was lucky enough to get a dismissal. I visited the attorney again and thanked him for his help. Then I hired him to file an FDCPA Claim. He paid all the up front fees and a few months later we won that case. I didn't do it for the small amount of money, but because I wanted to get it all deleted for good. I also was happy for him to make a few bucks since he had already been so helpful. Since that time we have done some more of the same. 

I will admit that going this route is not easy. I have spent hundreds of hours studying and preparing to deal with this mess. I have a very one track mind and unfortunately I probably worry more than I need to. I am now about 3/4 of the way through things. I still have a couple hanging out there that I am ready to deal with if the time comes. Hopefully I am in the debt scrubbers data bases enough that I am not worth their time. Only time will tell. The comforting thing is if I still get into trouble BK is always an option.

 

If all goes well my credit will be wiped clean in a couple of years vs 10 for a CH7. Almost all of the JDB TLs are already deleted. I also don't have to worry about a BK from all of this showing up when I apply for a job in the future. The sad thing about BK is that it stays on your public records forever and this is a problem getting some jobs.

 

Other reasons people avoid BK is to protect assets. Even if your income is low some of these BK Trustees will go after everything they can. They do this because they get a percentage of everything they collect. Most of them have a staff that looks into your entire background and with Today's technology the odds are against you. If something is found that is not disclosed they can file fraud charges against you and then you are really screwed.

 

Of course the good thing about BK is that it gets things over with in a hurry. You also can reestablish credit much sooner because anything you sign up for is BK proof. You also don't have to spend two - five years dealing with all the stuff you read about here. 

 

Either way has its positives and negatives. I'm glad you made the decision you are most comfortable with.  I'll let you know if I chose the right path in a couple of years:)

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@Paradise954

 

From what I understand the CA/JDB TLs will go away at the same time the OC TLs expire. Of course this has a few exceptions like when someone starts making payments again and resets the SOL. When I win in court I always let them know I want everything cancelled and deleted. If they don't agree to this I let them know they will be seeing a piece of paper and I will now be the plaintiff. So far they all have been kind enough to "help me out". Of course I still have the OC TLs to wait on. I plan on challenging them also when I am in the clear. Its amazing how many of the originals are no longer in business and/or have been bought by another bank. 

 

I do appreciate you sharing your experience with us. Fighting like many of us do is not for everyone. Not to mention hiring an attorney for a BK is much cheaper than if you have to hire one for a couple or ten separate lawsuits. BK is definitely a better option for someone who just accepts defaults. Those type of collections can haunt a person for decades. 

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Can student loans be discharged in BK, yes. What is the probability of that happening, very low. In fact, it is easier to get taxes wiped out in BK than it is to get student loans to be wiped out.

My cousin works in the BK Courts for the District of Minnesota. She has been in the courts for 30 - 35 years, first as a secretary for one judge, then as a clerk for another. In that time, she has seen 2 cases where student loans were included in the BK:

1) A case where a person was working for a non-profit and somehow argued that taking a higher paying job at a for-profit company would not be in the nations best interest. To be honest, my cousin has no clue how this debtor pulled this off.

2) A case of an Iranian national that was refused clearance to work in his field of study by the US Government. The judge told the government that in this case, they could not have their cake and eat it too and said either they remove the restriction or give up the student loan repayment. The government chose the later.

So although student loans can be discharged in a BK, the odds are so low and the hoops so high, it would not happen for most people.

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For me personally, I would love to file for bankruptcy. I wish I could experience life without all this debt, the lawsuit I'm currently in, and the threat of another lawsuit constantly hanging over me. Plus my credit's already ruined. I don't think BK would make it any worse. Unfortunately I would very likely lose my house in the process. My state has one of the lowest, if not the lowest exemption amount for homesteads in the country. I could go by the federal rules, but even that's not enough. I may lose my house anyway in my current lawsuit, but I have to fight if I want a chance of keeping it.

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True, but whether you are the IRS or a company that purchased a portfolio of student loans (debt), if you are listed on the creditors matrix, you better file your objection to debtor's BK, proof of claim and/or advessary actions as ordered by a Federal judge, cause when the judge drops that hammer and case is closed, best of luck as you are most likely SOL afterwards.

Federal court and laws, as I learned, are very powerful entities and the judges that run the courts are no nonense people. They take what they do very seriously. As does the US Trustee who oversees bankruptcies. I witnessed two debtors during my 341 meeting who the trustee made their life a lot less fun when he was done examining their cases than when they walked in (not discounting the fact that bankruptcy is no fun and the 341 meeting stressful enough as it is). I won't get into the details, but I wouldn't have wanted to be in their shoes.....cause I am sure it sucked.

Can student loans be discharged in BK, yes. What is the probability of that happening, very low. In fact, it is easier to get taxes wiped out in BK than it is to get student loans to be wiped out.

My cousin works in the BK Courts for the District of Minnesota. She has been in the courts for 30 - 35 years, first as a secretary for one judge, then as a clerk for another. In that time, she has seen 2 cases where student loans were included in the BK:

1) A case where a person was working for a non-profit and somehow argued that taking a higher paying job at a for-profit company would not be in the nations best interest. To be honest, my cousin has no clue how this debtor pulled this off.

2) A case of an Iranian national that was refused clearance to work in his field of study by the US Government. The judge told the government that in this case, they could not have their cake and eat it too and said either they remove the restriction or give up the student loan repayment. The government chose the later.

So although student loans can be discharged in a BK, the odds are so low and the hoops so high, it would not happen for most people.

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Filing fee for filing bankruptcy is $306 in the district I live in.

In my area, attorneys' fees range from $1000 - $3000 depending on complexities of a person's situation. Of course, fees may be higher depending upon varying situations that may arise that the attorney may have to get involved with (e.g. adversary actions filed, reaffirmation agreements to review, filing of motions, etc etc)

For me, it made absolute sense to file and the costs associated were totally justified and BK for me was the appropriate strategy given my situation.

I am perplexed that no one has mentioned how much it costs to file for bankruptcy.  If you are so broke that you can't pay your bills then it is likely that you don't have $800-$1,500 lying around to dish out to a bankruptcy attorney.

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That is how they keep the poor man poor.

 

I have some other issue with courts too, not just bk. I was in court just the other day and the judge ordered me to get a job. I reminded him that I am a retired disabled vet, and he told me he did not care. I told him you honor the only reason I can think that the court would order a person that is already retired after he spent his time in the service and is disabled is so the court will have an income that it CAN attach, because the court knows that it cannot touch my disability or retirement money. He told me that he is the Judge and he can order me to get a job if he wants.

 

My next question pissed him off even more, Your honor is it this courts intent to violate my 1st amendment rights? He was furious and said just where do you come off challenging this court with the Constitution? I replied Your honor the first amendment give me the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? The Judge told me everyone knows that so I asked him Your honor is not one of those rights covered under the first amendment a right to work. He answered Yes that is a right that everyone has. I said well your honor the right to work is a right to contract my knowledge, my skill, and my life time AS I SEE FIT. He got real red in the face, you could see he was boiling he yelled at me GET OUT OF MY COURT ROOM, this case is dismissed. This is over some back child support that me ex is trying to get, now get this my son is 26 and in college under my veterans disability for free. She did not ask for it ten years ago, but now she wants it. The Judge told me that laches does not apply in child support cases, lol.

 

So some people have to fight the system. I wish the States would get more harsh against the debt collection industry. Do you know that with the economy the way it is today with the big companies having it hard one of the few industries that is making huge profits besides the oil companies is the debt collection industry?

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I can confirm that just because the OC drops their TL that does not permit future TL's from appearing down the road. As I experienced, anytime the debt was sold by the OC and picked up by a JDB, a TL would appear from the JDB listing a new, different TL. This happened over and over again as the debt moved from JDB to JDB. This is how they keep this crap on your credit report for years, well beyond even after the original creditor's history drops off. I had TL's at the time I filed my BK where the OC trade line fell off over a year ago, but the JDB was listing as opened in 2013 as they purchased the debt this year? In this case, that TL would report til 2020??? See, this is how they screw you for years. Costing thousands in addtional interest and fees associated when trying to obtain new credit.

This is just part of the crap I wanted to end. While I understand someone wanting to fight these people, for me I wanted it done with, period. No more messing around with drafting legal paper s, traveling to court, etc etc. To me these JDB people are the lowest form of slime that exist. I saw coworkers wages garnished by these sleeze balls obtaining illegal summary judgments. Sure I helped them, they retained an attorney and got the garnishment and judgment vacated, but by then the damage was already done. They lost money and more importantly, time out of their life dealing with the illegal behavior of these assclowns that they will never get back.

@Paradise954

From what I understand the CA/JDB TLs will go away at the same time the OC TLs expire. Of course this has a few exceptions like when someone starts making payments again and resets the SOL. When I win in court I always let them know I want everything cancelled and deleted. If they don't agree to this I let them know they will be seeing a piece of paper and I will now be the plaintiff. So far they all have been kind enough to "help me out". Of course I still have the OC TLs to wait on. I plan on challenging them also when I am in the clear. Its amazing how many of the originals are no longer in business and/or have been bought by another bank.

I do appreciate you sharing your experience with us. Fighting like many of us do is not for everyone. Not to mention hiring an attorney for a BK is much cheaper than if you have to hire one for a couple or ten separate lawsuits. BK is definitely a better option for someone who just accepts defaults. Those type of collections can haunt a person for decades.

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@BTO429,

First, thanks for your service to this country. In my response to this judge's behavior, shame on him for questioning anything regarding the U.S. Constitution and you bringing it up in "his" court room. The Constitution is in part responsible for him sitting on that bench and as an elected public servant, I hope he gains an understanding of that real soon.

In my BK case, I was fortunate enough to experience what the Constitution and the Amendments that make it up stood for. In short, I own two guns and were listed as assets in my BK schedules. During my 341 meeting, the very first words out of the BK Trustee's month were that he was abandoning the handguns as he stated my right to own that gun was protected by the 2nd Amendment and that he would not allow that right of ownership to be taken away by any creditor or otherwise. Now, here is a someone who gets the Constitution and the rights afforded and protected by it.

I think this may be the difference in the mindset of some judges at the county level versus the Federal level?

That is how they keep the poor man poor.

 

I have some other issue with courts too, not just bk. I was in court just the other day and the judge ordered me to get a job. I reminded him that I am a retired disabled vet, and he told me he did not care. I told him you honor the only reason I can think that the court would order a person that is already retired after he spent his time in the service and is disabled is so the court will have an income that it CAN attach, because the court knows that it cannot touch my disability or retirement money. He told me that he is the Judge and he can order me to get a job if he wants.

 

My next question pissed him off even more, Your honor is it this courts intent to violate my 1st amendment rights? He was furious and said just where do you come off challenging this court with the Constitution? I replied Your honor the first amendment give me the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? The Judge told me everyone knows that so I asked him Your honor is not one of those rights covered under the first amendment a right to work. He answered Yes that is a right that everyone has. I said well your honor the right to work is a right to contract my knowledge, my skill, and my life time AS I SEE FIT. He got real red in the face, you could see he was boiling he yelled at me GET OUT OF MY COURT ROOM, this case is dismissed. This is over some back child support that me ex is trying to get, now get this my son is 26 and in college under my veterans disability for free. She did not ask for it ten years ago, but now she wants it. The Judge told me that laches does not apply in child support cases, lol.

 

So some people have to fight the system. I wish the States would get more harsh against the debt collection industry. Do you know that with the economy the way it is today with the big companies having it hard one of the few industries that is making huge profits besides the oil companies is the debt collection industry?

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http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/11/523

 

Above are the automatic exceptions to the discharge. Now some of these, the creditor must file a claim to obtain the exemption but for most of these, it is up to the debtor to file for the exemption. If fact, I am sure your attorney filed to have the taxed discharged.

If you look at paragraph 8, it specifically states that student loans are exempted except for undue hardship reasons, the definition of which is left to the judges in each individual case. The debtor therefore has to file for the student loans to be included in the discharge and have to prove to the judge that to not have the student loans discharged would create a hardship. If what my cousin told me is the norm, that is an extremely high hurdle to get over (not impossible but improbable). Taxes has a more defined setup to determine when they are discharged. If they follow the formula, they are discharged. If not, then they are not. Student loans do not have such a formula and therefore it up to the discretion of the judge.

Even if the student loans are listed and the debtor takes not action, the discharge does not apply. When you get your actual notice of discharge, read it carefully and you will see that it states that the said debts pursuant to the section above are not discharged unless listed in the order.

 

Simply put, it is hard as hell to get student loans discharged in bankruptcy.

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I was reading through all of the various posts and reading of the crap people are going through and I was just wondering, if a person's situation warranted it, why not proceed with filing bankruptcy and rid of all this nonsense of dealing with these JDB's and lawsuits, etc?     While I understand that people may have their reason(s) for not wanting to file BK, I can say that in my case, it has eliminated crap that I had hanging over my head for years.   I am now so relieved since my discharge and my BK case being closed words can't describe.  I should have done this a long time ago, but I had my personal reasons why I didn't want to.

...

This is just my input from what I have gained from my own experiences with JDB's and filing BK.   If you are dealing with a lot of BS from debt and especially JDBs, then you should seriously consider using your right of filing BK.    

 

Feel free to post any questions / comments you may have.... 

 

P954

An OC attorney called. I informed them I had no money or resources to access money. They pulled my credit report. They sued. Having nothing to lose I fought them, learned quickly, and their attorney lost to me in court. Their loss was clearly appropriate since they failed to prove up all the elements to their CoA as well as their discovery responses and external documents showed they were not the real party in interest.

 

Since I did not have the money to file for BK and the defendant filing fees were much lower (with a deferral option) I "chose" the cheaper route.

 

In my situation, BK appears to me to be the easy route for my alleged creditors. So far it is not to my clear benefit to give them the easy way out. If only 5% of all collection suits filed were fought as hard and as intelligently as the top 10 most knowledgeable and litigation-engaged on this board (whether done pro se or with representation) I am confident that the entire DC industry would change, in a positive way, overnight.

 

Since that kind of pressure is highly unlikely to happen to the DC industry I will continue to do what works best for me. BK is not what works for me. It may be a perfect fit for others. I have read nothing that indicates that consumer BK is some kind of easy button. It appears most often to be a mediation type situation where the parties "settle" any alleged debts and it is the exception not the rule for the consumer to have an adversarial hearing.

 

I don't know much about BK but I view it as the nuclear option that is easy/simple for creditors and not always ideal or cheap for the consumer. While a BK, post judgment, is not the same as pre-judgment BK it is still similar enough to be effective in many cases AFAIK.

 

I would probably be more impressed with BK as a consumer tool if it did not appear to me that BK attorneys are merely over-priced drafting/filing clerks. This is based, right or wrong, on my impression that there seems to be a lack of any routine adversarial role for a BK consumer attorney. Having not personally spoken to 5 or 6 competent BK attorneys I cannot confirm this is an accurate impression. It may also be that that, "hey, that's just how BK works".

 

Having reviewed over 100 publicly recorded DoT related documents it is clear to me that a publicly recorded DoT/corporate assignment/trustee assignment doesn't necessarily mean there exists a valid security on the real estate identified in the public record. I would imagine I might be sailing into some stiff winds trying to explain to a BK attorney that the real estate to be listed on the BK form is unsecured and the creditor is an unknown entity to me. This, despite the computer generated scribblings of some Too Big To Fail bank as servicer/debt collector. Since that is the usually case I am not comfortable lying to the BK court and claiming that the servicers "story" is true regarding their alleging of a "secured" debt placing that real estate debt ahead of other potentially valid unsecured creditors. I suppose I would point them to: Misbehavior and Mistake in Bankruptcy Mortgage Claims by Katherine M. Porter or similar to begin a discussion on the issue before determining whether I needed to move on to interview and possibly qualify the next BK attorney.

 

That is how they keep the poor man poor.

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So some people have to fight the system. I wish the States would get more harsh against the debt collection industry. Do you know that with the economy the way it is today with the big companies having it hard one of the few industries that is making huge profits besides the oil companies is the debt collection industry?

True.

 

For me it is more about asserting my rights and protecting my own then having to "fight the system". It just ends up that fighting the system appears to be the best tool to assert my rights.

 

If you are an OC or JDB in the typical business partnership with an attorney or law firm you are best served using your name as plaintiff on the caption with someone other than me or especially other than those on this forum that are much better qualified than me to hold you accountable to the law. My filing of a BK would mostly benefit your business partner/DC attorneys in saving them expenses and resources. This is true for my unique personal situation. YMMV

 

 

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Simply put, it is hard as hell to get student loans discharged in bankruptcy.

 

As far as a likely non-dis-chargeable student loan debt (lacking the ability to repay) I would think one might want to consider whether they are better served arranging their affairs to be execution-of-judgment-proof versus filing for BK. Everyone has to review their own unique situation and make the right decision based on their own research and resources IMHO.

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Well, 4 days since BK discharge and Final Decree and first credit offer came in mail today. Finance offer for a new car. I suspect the credit card offers will be arriving soon. My attorney said a couple of months, but 4 days after BK discharge and offers are already showing up??? Amazing...... Like ThisQuoteMultiQuoteEdit

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In the past lists had to be purchased and it took a few weeks to transfer the data. Now some courts sell the information electronically and the only time involved in getting these offers is the delivery time of The USPS.

 

If you have the income and job time you are viewed as less of a risk than just someone with bad credit. Its not likely that you can turn around and file CH7 on them. If someone lets everything go in the BK then they should be in a much better cash flow situation. Another thing is that many people post-BK are likely to take credit more seriously, even the ones that end up in trouble again. 

 

Just remember to take your time making your future decisions. Credit is starting to flow again in general, so you should have more options than just a couple of years ago. The interests rates will be higher but it still is possible to negotiate them down. In the past banks used to add around 10% points to the average rates on auto loans. So when the average was 6% a post-BK rate would be 16%-20%. If you sell your situation to the dealer they in turn can sell your situation to the bank. Remember just because you are high risk doesn't mean you lose all your leverage. 

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