loribellag

JDB backed off, now what should I do?

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@loribellag  By attacking standing you are disputing their right to sue you as the creditor.  They will want to introduce a vague robo-signed affidavit stating they bought your account.  Problem is it won't list YOUR account it is a generic bill of sale with redacted information removed that does not specifically identify you or your account in any way.  They will have generic statements of a credit account you might have owned but that does not mean they as a JDB have the legal right to collect from YOU.  You want specifics as was said such as  the records pertaining to the sale…as The Bill of Sale, the entirety of the Sales Contract and Forward Flow Agreement, and the documentation for this specific alleged debt.  

 

You need the card agreement to see if arbitration is a possibility.  If you are going to go that route you have to compel arbitration before going to trial or you waive the right.  Not everyone agrees you should use this I mention it because it is an option.  Some agreements specify that the creditor will pay the arbitration fees up front so it might not cost you but without the card agreement you won't know.

 

The stronger your discovery motion is without asking for irrelevant impossible and unneeded things the more likely they are to fold and dismiss because you are not "low hanging fruit" that will pay up or agree to a consent judgment.

 

Thank you. Now, I'm starting to see a clear game plan. But I still don't know what to ask them to admit to in my Request for Admissions? Any advice on that specifically?

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I'm getting ready to draft my Request for Admissions. But I still have no idea what to ask the JDB to admit. Can anyone give me some examples of what I should ask them to admit?

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1. Admit that you did not provide any Goods or Services to the Defendant.

2. Admit that Plaintiff is not the Original Creditor on the alleged account at issue.

3. Admit that Plaintiff did not enter into any contract with Defendant.

4. Admit that you obtained your rights to the alleged account at issue through an assignment.

5. Admit that the account that is the subject of this lawsuit is governed by a written contract
between the original creditor and defendant.

6. Admit that the terms and conditions for that account that is the subject of this lawsuit are set forth in a card member      agreement.

7. Admit that no employee, agent or representative of Plaintiff is a custodian of records for the Original Creditor on the account at issue in this lawsuit.

8. Admit that no employee, agent or representative of Plaintiff has personal knowledge of
Original Creditor's record keeping of any records pertaining to Defendant.

9. Admit that the last payment received on this alleged account was received more than four years
before the date you filed suit.

10. Admit that the alleged breach of contract that is the basis of this lawsuit occurred more
than four years before the date on which you filed suit.

11. Admit that the original creditor sold or assigned the debt with a disclaimer of warranty.

12. Admit that you did not review the original creditor's business records associated with this
account prior to your decision to purchase the account.

 

(Edit the parts in red according to the statute of limitations in your state and check your rules to see how many requests are allowed)

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I just realized the plaintiff ran my credit report on 7/7/12 is that legal?

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I just realized the plaintiff ran my credit report on 7/7/12 is that legal?

 

 

Yes it is a permissible pull since they are suing you and allegedly own the debt and therefore are a creditor.  

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1. Admit that you did not provide any Goods or Services to the Defendant.

2. Admit that Plaintiff is not the Original Creditor on the alleged account at issue.

3. Admit that Plaintiff did not enter into any contract with Defendant.

4. Admit that you obtained your rights to the alleged account at issue through an assignment.

5. Admit that the account that is the subject of this lawsuit is governed by a written contract

between the original creditor and defendant.

6. Admit that the terms and conditions for that account that is the subject of this lawsuit are set forth in a card member      agreement.

7. Admit that no employee, agent or representative of Plaintiff is a custodian of records for the Original Creditor on the account at issue in this lawsuit.

8. Admit that no employee, agent or representative of Plaintiff has personal knowledge of

Original Creditor's record keeping of any records pertaining to Defendant.

9. Admit that the last payment received on this alleged account was received more than four years

before the date you filed suit.

10. Admit that the alleged breach of contract that is the basis of this lawsuit occurred more

than four years before the date on which you filed suit.

11. Admit that the original creditor sold or assigned the debt with a disclaimer of warranty.

12. Admit that you did not review the original creditor's business records associated with this

account prior to your decision to purchase the account.

 

(Edit the parts in red according to the statute of limitations in your state and check your rules to see how many requests are allowed)

 

This card is within the statute of limitations, so I know I can't use the admissions you suggest regarding that. In UT we are only allowed 5. Which 5 would be the most useful against them?

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This card is within the statute of limitations, so I know I can't use the admissions you suggest regarding that. In UT we are only allowed 5. Which 5 would be the most useful against them?

 

I would go with:

 

1. Admit that Plaintiff did not enter into any contract with or provide any Goods or Services to the Defendant.

 

2. Admit that Plaintiff is not the Original Creditor on the alleged account at issue.

 

7. Admit that no employee, agent, affiant, or representative of Plaintiff is a custodian of records for the Original Creditor on the account at issue in this lawsuit.

8. Admit that no employee, agent, affiant, or representative of Plaintiff has personal knowledge of the Original Creditor's record keeping or of any records pertaining to an account alleged to belong to the Defendant.

 

12. Admit that the Plaintiff did not review the original creditor's business records associated with the account alleged to belong to Defendant prior to the decision to litigate.

 

This paints them into a corner and if they deny everything (which they probably will) then can't produce adequate documentation that the court accepts:  dead in the water.  If they ADMIT any of it then they are saying they have no evidence:  again dead in the water.  

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Exactly.  Now when they come up with an affidavit from their own employee they have already shot themselves in the foot.

 

I always stress to get the one about the cardmember agreement in there too.  That can easily trap them down the road. I would leave out #2 and replace it with #6 since they probably already admitted to an assignment on the original petition.

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Exactly.  Now when they come up with an affidavit from their own employee they have already shot themselves in the foot.

 

I always stress to get the one about the cardmember agreement in there too.  That can easily trap them down the road. I would leave out #2 and replace it with #6 since they probably already admitted to an assignment on the original petition.

 

Can you elaborate on how this request for admission traps them later on: "6. Admit that the terms and conditions for the account that is the subject of this lawsuit are set forth in a card member agreement."

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If they filed the lawsuit based on Breach of Contract and have admitted to this but have not provided the card member agreement during discovery then their whole case is very near dead in the water.

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In Utah, the maximum time for discovery is 180 days unless Judge rules it can go longer. Your discovery requests can occur at any point during this time. My suggestion is to mention when serving requests, that discovery is ongoing and there may be additional requests. In that vein, my suggestion would be to submit only 4 requests for admission and 4 requests for documents. This way you reserve a request as things become clearer in the discovery process.

 

I didn't know until recently that I was supposed to send my own Request for Admissions and Request for Documents to the Plaintiff. Today, as I was preparing them, I found some Utah Rules of Civil Procedure with stated deadlines for discovery. Because of the above quote, I thought I had 180 days, which would have given me until about May 13, but the rules say that damages for less than $50,000 only have 120 days for discovery. Since the initial summons was served Nov 13, it appears that the deadline for discovery would have been around March 13, over a month ago. Is there anything I can do to extend that amount of time? Or do I now have no chance of sending my Requests?

 

And, if the deadline did pass a month ago, wouldn't the Plaintiffs have usually taken further action by now? I have received nothing from them since January. If I can't send my requests now, then what should my next move be? HELP. I don't know what to do.

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I didn't know until recently that I was supposed to send my own Request for Admissions and Request for Documents to the Plaintiff. Today, as I was preparing them, I found some Utah Rules of Civil Procedure with stated deadlines for discovery. Because of the above quote, I thought I had 180 days, which would have given me until about May 13, but the rules say that damages for less than $50,000 only have 120 days for discovery. Since the initial summons was served Nov 13, it appears that the deadline for discovery would have been around March 13, over a month ago. Is there anything I can do to extend that amount of time? Or do I now have no chance of sending my Requests?

 

And, if the deadline did pass a month ago, wouldn't the Plaintiffs have usually taken further action by now? I have received nothing from them since January. If I can't send my requests now, then what should my next move be? HELP. I don't know what to do.

 

You are correct, I inadvertently put 180 days. It is 120 days. I would still submit them as I cannot remember if the time starts from the suit being filed or when you answer the suit. Because there has been inactivity does not mean this will be going away. It is better to be prepared and I would start by serving ROAs and RFDs. The judge will probably not have a problem with it unless the Plaintiff objects.

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You are correct, I inadvertently put 180 days. It is 120 days. I would still submit them as I cannot remember if the time starts from the suit being filed or when you answer the suit. Because there has been inactivity does not mean this will be going away. It is better to be prepared and I would start by serving ROAs and RFDs. The judge will probably not have a problem with it unless the Plaintiff objects.

 

Okay, I will file them today. But, if these requests will help me win my case, why wouldn't they object about me filing them past the deadline?

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Okay, I will file them today. But, if these requests will help me win my case, why wouldn't they object about me filing them past the deadline?

 

Let's see if they object. If they do you can answer their objection, by saying something about not hearing from the Plaintiff and thinking they had perhaps given up on the suit, (or something like that). Maybe we can get some assistance from the board when and if that happens. As a pro se, there is a good chance the judge will give you some room for the mistake.

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Let's see if they object. If they do you can answer their objection, by saying something about not hearing from the Plaintiff and thinking they had perhaps given up on the suit, (or something like that). Maybe we can get some assistance from the board when and if that happens. As a pro se, there is a good chance the judge will give you some room for the mistake.

 

Assistance from what board?

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Okay, I'm done with drafting my Request for Admissions and Request for Production of Documents. I want to attach it here so some of you can take a look and tell me if I've done anything wrong, but I can't see how to attach it. Is it possible to do so? If so, how?

 

Also, can someone answer my question above?

 

 

Assistance from what board?

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@loribellag

 

A couple of questions. 

 

1.  Has the JDB already provided an affidavit?

 

2.  If so, what is stated in that affidavit?

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@loribellag

 

A couple of questions. 

 

1.  Has the JDB already provided an affidavit?

 

2.  If so, what is stated in that affidavit?

 

I'm not sure what an affidavit is, but I will tell you what they have given me so far:

 

1.  Summons (with no other docs attached)

2.  Initial Disclosures (with no other docs attached)

3.  Supplemental Initial Disclosures (with a 1 pg Summary of Account Activity and 2 pgs of instructions)

     - Summary of Acct Activity has:

          - My Name

          - Original Creditor's name

          - Balance of $15,000, Credit of $15,000, New Balance 0.00, Charge-Off of $15,000 in Dec of 2010, Minimum Payment Due of $3000, Payment due date Dec of 2010 (all seems confusing to me).

     - Instructions contain things like:

          - Customer Service contact info

          - What to do if you find a mistake

          - Your Rights

          - Payment instructions

          - For more terms & conditions refer to Credit Card Agreement, etc.

4.  First Set of Request for Admissions and Request for Production of Documents (with no other docs attached)

 

These are the only things they have sent me so far.

 

What exactly is an affidavit?

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@loribellag

 

An affidavit is statements made under oath and will be notarized.   It should have a notary's signature and stamp (or image of a notary stamp) at the bottom of the document.

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@loribellag

 

An affidavit is statements made under oath and will be notarized.   It should have a notary's signature and stamp (or image of a notary stamp) at the bottom of the document.

 

Would the Initial Disclosures be an affidavit?  It came with a Certificate of Mailing signed by someone but no Notary stamp. For this discussion board, I have redacted certain identifying info. The Initial Disclosures state:

 

Plaintiff discloses the following:

 

1.     Individuals likely to have discoverable information:

        a.     Plaintiff has multiple employees or agents that could serve as a witness based upon the business records made available to Plaintiff. An employee will be designated as necessary to answer discovery or serve as a witness. This employee may be contacted through Plaintiff's counsel.

 

        b.     Defendant

                Name Redacted

                Address Redacted

 

        c.     All persons designated by Defendant as having discoverable information.

 

2.     Discoverable Documents:

 

        Plaintiff has requested documentation for this matter but has not yet been able to obtain said documentation. Plaintiff therefore respectfully requests that it be allowed to submit its documentation at a later date and amend these Initial Disclosures at that time.

 

3.     Damages:  $15,000

 

        Damages are as calculated in Plaintiff's Complaint.

 

4.     Insurance Agreement:

 

        NONE

 

 

And that's it. Then a month later I received the Summary of Account Activity which I have outlined in a post earlier today. If this Initial Disclosures is not an affidavit, then I have not received one. Have you looked at my Requests for Admissions & Docs attached earlier today? What is your feedback on them before I send them?

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Can someone please look over the attached Request for Admissions & Docs and tell me if I did anything wrong before I file it? I have redacted certain identifying info for this discussion board. You can scan through this thread if you need to familiarize yourself with my case. Thanks, anyone, anyone.

Redacted Request Admissions Docs.pdf

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@loribellag

 

You mentioned a summary of account activity, but I can't find it.  Did you remove it?

 

The Summary of Account Activity is something they sent me. I did not copy it and include it here because is has my name and address on it. It contains:

 

 

     - My Name and address

     - Original Creditor's name

     - Balance of $15,000, Credit of $15,000, New Balance 0.00, Charge-Off of $15,000 in Dec of 2010, Minimum Payment Due of $3000, Payment due date Dec of 2010 (all seems confusing to me).

     - And Instructions that contain things like:

          - Customer Service contact info

          - What to do if you find a mistake

          - Your Rights

          - Payment instructions

          - For more terms & conditions refer to Credit Card Agreement, etc.

 

It looks like an account summary that the Original Creditor provided to the the Junk Debt Buyer.

 

But, what I really need now is for someone to please give me feedback on the Request for Admissions & Docs I attached 2 posts ago before I file it to make sure I'm doing doing anything wrong. Thanks.

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