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Denying- denial how to go about without perjury?


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I have to ask this questions, as my last thread got me wondering. How does one go about denying a debt without perjuring themselves. I assume we are all here to FIGHT, and defend ourselves pro se. So, lets talk in a manner that allows us to express ourselves on this topic, without putting any responding parties down. We are all here to assist during this difficult time, and most of us CAN NOT afford legal help. So I have two scenario that I would like question.

 

 Scenario number 1 . A Party is sued  by a JDB. You go through all motions and the legal battles and FINALLY its your day in court. (Keep in mind during discovery plaintiffs side provides couple of statements that show your name, address, and couple transactions)

 

You are now in front of the Judge, and he or the plaintiffs sides ask? Do you agree that you owe (JDB) this money?  How would you Answer this?

 

Then Judge, or plaintiffs asks, Did you at one time have a card with OC? How would you answer?

 

 

 

Scenario number 2. Lets take the same Scenario as number one, but this time is NOT the JDB, BUT the OC.

 

 

Then Judge, or plaintiffs counsels asks, Is this your debt, and is this your account? How would you answer this?

 

Hopefully we can all discuss this without attacking another person's view, or comments. We are not here just for ourselves but to help others who are in the same position as us. PERSONALLY I KNOW FOR A FACT, I WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GO THIS FAR WITHOUT THIS SITES HELP, GUIDANCE AND SUPPORT FROM MANY.

 

Also, I am not talking about denial, during discovery.. I am talking about denying in front of the courts, and plaintiffs counsel. 

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 Scenario number 1 . A Party is sued  by a JDB. You go through all motions and the legal battles and FINALLY its your day in court. (Keep in mind during discovery plaintiffs side provides couple of statements that show your name, address, and couple transactions)

 

You are now in front of the Judge, and he or the plaintiffs sides ask? Do you agree that you owe (JDB) this money?  How would you Answer this?

I do not agree that I owe (JDB) any money.

 

Then Judge, or plaintiffs asks, Did you at one time have a card with OC? How would you answer?

I just don't remember ever having a card with (OC).

 

Scenario number 2. Lets take the same Scenario as number one, but this time is NOT the JDB, BUT the OC.

 

Then Judge, or plaintiffs counsels asks, Is this your debt, and is this your account? How would you answer this?

Pretty much the same way.

 

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@Tds

 

You are now in front of the Judge, and he or the plaintiffs sides ask? Do you agree that you owe (JDB) this money?  How would you Answer this?

 

 

Answer:  No, Your Honor.

 

Then Judge, or plaintiffs asks, Did you at one time have a card with OC? How would you answer?

 

 

If you had an account with the OC, you have to admit it.  BUT, look at your question:  "A card" does not necessarily mean "this particular account."  You then have to consider if the question becomes more specific.

 

 

The answer to the above would depend upon your records.  If your bank records do not show payments to the OC

 

Scenario number 2. Lets take the same Scenario as number one, but this time is NOT the JDB, BUT the OC.

 

 

Then Judge, or plaintiffs counsels asks, Is this your debt, and is this your account? How would you answer this?

 

 

This would depend upon what could be shown from your personal bank records and the evidence provided by the OC. 

 

Does the evidence (credit card statements) show payments made by you?   Would your bank records reflect the payments recorded on the credit card statements?  If they do, you can't honestly deny that the account is yours.  You'd have to admit it.

 

This would also apply to a JDB.  BUT, note that admitting that you had the account with the OC is not admitting that the JDB owns the account.  Those are 2 completely different issues.  If the JDB can't prove that they own the account for which they're suing, it doesn't matter if you owe the OC.  What matters is if the JDB has proven (or can prove to the court's satisfaction) that they own the account in question.   They have to show to the court's satisfaction that they own the account.   The money is only owed to the plaintiff who owns the account.

 

But  in answer to your questions, you have to be honest with the court.   Here's an example.  When I was sued, the JDB requested that I admit that I had received credit card statements from the OC.  My response was "After searching my records, I have found no such credit card statements."  That was the truth.   I didn't include the fact that I, unless I file it, I throw out anything that's over a year old.

 

They also asked for me to admit that I had an account #xxxxxxxx with the OC.  I had no records.  My bank payments  didn't show that account number.   I had payments to the OC, but those payments didn't reflect the specific account number and the JDB didn't provide statements that showed payments that would have matched payments I made to the OC.

 

Getting the idea now?

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@Tds

 

 

Answer:  No, Your Honor.

 

 

If you had an account with the OC, you have to admit it.  BUT, look at your question:  "A card" does not necessarily mean "this particular account."  You then have to consider if the question becomes more specific.

 

 

The answer to the above would depend upon your records.  If your bank records do not show payments to the OC

 

 

This would depend upon what could be shown from your personal bank records and the evidence provided by the OC. 

 

Does the evidence (credit card statements) show payments made by you?   Would your bank records reflect the payments recorded on the credit card statements?  If they do, you can't honestly deny that the account is yours.  You'd have to admit it.

 

This would also apply to a JDB.  BUT, note that admitting that you had the account with the OC is not admitting that the JDB owns the account.  Those are 2 completely different issues.  If the JDB can't prove that they own the account for which they're suing, it doesn't matter if you owe the OC.  What matters is if the JDB has proven (or can prove to the court's satisfaction) that they own the account in question.   They have to show to the court's satisfaction that they own the account.   The money is only owed to the plaintiff who owns the account.

 

But  in answer to your questions, you have to be honest with the court.   Here's an example.  When I was sued, the JDB requested that I admit that I had received credit card statements from the OC.  My response was "After searching my records, I have found no such credit card statements."  That was the truth.   I didn't include the fact that I, unless I file it, I throw out anything that's over a year old.

 

They also asked for me to admit that I had an account #xxxxxxxx with the OC.  I had no records.  My bank payments  didn't show that account number.   I had payments to the OC, but those payments didn't reflect the specific account number and the JDB didn't provide statements that showed payments that would have matched payments I made to the OC.

 

Getting the idea now?

Yes, I am getting the idea,.... interesting very interesting indeed. 

 

So, lets say they ask a more specific question" Did you have this card, or account or account number with the OC"? This is in the JDB scenario. 

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@Tds

 

So, lets say they ask a more specific question" Did you have this card, or account or account number with the OC"? This is in the JDB scenario.

 

 

Again, it depends on the evidence provided.

 

Do you memorize credit card account numbers?  I don't.

 

What does the JDB's evidence show?  Does it show payments that can be matched to payments (date and amount) made to the OC from your bank account?  If  payments made from your bank account match the payments reflected on credit card statements, you'd have a hard time denying that you had the account with the OC.

 

But again, whether or not you had an account with the OC is irrelevant if the JDB hasn't proven ownership of that account.

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@Huey Pilot

 

Objection your honor - third party business records. OC is not Plaintiff.

 

 

If the judge is asking the question, can you object?  Also, what has OR ruled on 3rd party business records?

 

 

 

"I Don't Recall" ever having an account with this OC.

 

 

I already addressed that.  What does the evidence show?

 

 

Objection - Immaterial - I never have had any account with this JDB and owe them not one penny.

 

 

Not relevant if the JDB steps into the shoes of the OC.  It's only relevant if the JDB can't prove ownership of the account.

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...

Again, it depends on the evidence provided.

...

Of course I would require any and all evidence allegedly supporting the plaintiff's claims to be admissible evidence.

 

Perjury is statutorily addressed in OR here:

O.R.S. § 162.065¹

Perjury

(1) A person commits the crime of perjury if the person makes a false sworn statement in regard to a material issue, knowing it to be false.

(2) Perjury is a Class C felony. [1971 c.743 §183]

 

I would assume that almost any sworn testimony by a JDB representative (and a majority of an OC representative's testimony) would tend toward being perjurious.

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