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you will want to get the affidavit from the oc thrown out/struck as it is prepared in anticipation for litigation. prepare real questions concerning the forward flow purchase agreement document recitals, It sounds like a tough judge so make a written request for statement of decision and an oral one at trial. Also object to the attorney leading the witness on direct questioning, improper foundation.

 

The jurisdictional issue should have been changed, I think there is a reason they filed in the court they did it was because you were hiding out from them and the court. So you can also bring up that they did not comply with the fair debt litigation practices act in not attaching verified documents to the complaint which is a violation. You also have to send CCP96 and trial brief and Motion in limine within the local court rules. You are going to be super busy until trial. look in my tagline and use anything that you can.

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Hey @Seadragon,

 

I wasn't hiding out. My parents lost their house after 22 years, I was using their address. They were there all but 4 years of my life.

 

What makes you think this will be a tough judge?

 

You lost me at forward flow purchase agreement document recitals, I have examples of questions for the witness which may include this...

 

Sounds like I'll have to learn and re-learn a lot this week. I know nothing about written statements, or improper foundation, unless your referring to evidence code 1271 

 

Thanks for your help!

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Hey @Seadragon,

 

I wasn't hiding out. My parents lost their house after 22 years, I was using their address. They were there all but 4 years of my life.

 

What makes you think this will be a tough judge?

 

You lost me at forward flow purchase agreement document recitals, I have examples of questions for the witness which may include this...

 

Sounds like I'll have to learn and re-learn a lot this week. I know nothing about written statements, or improper foundation, unless your referring to evidence code 1271 

 

Thanks for your help!

Yes evidence code 1271. The forward flow purchase agreement between the OC and the JDB's recite how they do not warranty the accuracy of the accounts, this is mentioned on the bill of sale but the other document spells it out more devastatingly. Since the OC could not authenticate the correctness or validity of the account, the JDB witness would have no basis to assert that the documents are genuine. Sorry to hear your parents lost their home, alot of people are fighting that now.

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http://www.creditslips.org/creditslips/2009/08/the-lack-of-evidentiary-foundations-fosters-fraud.html

 

We understand that in some legal systems it is assumed that documents are what they purport to be, unless shown to be otherwise. With us it is the other way around. Generally speaking, documents must be authenticated in some fashion before they are admissible in evidence. This was true at the time of the hearing in this case and is true under the Evidence Code (§ 1400 et seq.)

Continental Baking Co. v. Katz, 68 Cal. 2d 512 (Cal. 1968)

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@Seadragon 

 

Ok, so I'm only about halfway through on the second link you posted and already feel more confident about questioning the witness. Thank you.

Also, I've taken the redacted trial brief and Objection from @h8spleadingpaper, great you have about everything lined up for me thanks! At what point do I send these to plaintiff, is it 7 days prior? It seemed to work well for H8.

 

I think there is text and signatures, from the OC saying the documents are correct. One is even notarized. This was in the response to RFP and Declaration. Nothing in the complaint however.

 

-Something off topic, I Just looked on the court schedule and noticed there are three other cases at the same time, place and with the same judge. Do they try and put us on some kind of judgement assembly line or what?

 

-My court is now allowing audio recording which you can have done and purchase a CD for $25, any reason why I'd prefer a court reporter over this? Money is not an issue.

 

Thanks for the info

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definetly want a court reporter the audio can't be used on appeal. You would have to jump through to many hoops to use the recording and then would have it transcribed. Also a court reporter might make them withdraw.

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As to the timeline you can look online at the local rules. Alot of courts vary greatly between 30 days out and such if you are submitting your own ccp98 you have to get that to them before 30 days before trial if not then the local rule for trial briefs is most important.

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The affidavit from the oc was that made after the lawsuit was started? If so it was prepared in anticipation of litigation and object to it. Also remember any affidavit that doesn't have the blurb from ccp2015.5 can be thrown out the case for that is Kulshrestha v. First Union Commercial Corp.,33 Cal. 4th 601 (Cal. 2004)

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Ok, so I'm only about halfway through on the second link you posted and already feel more confident about questioning the witness. Thank you.

Also, I've taken the redacted trial brief and Objection from @h8spleadingpaper, great you have about everything lined up for me thanks! At what point do I send these to plaintiff, is it 7 days prior? It seemed to work well for H8.

 

You're most welcome, John4600.  I can tell you this:  if I had it to do all over again, I would have made absolutely sure that I got these to Plaintiff's counsel a good solid 7 days before trial (be sure to check your local court rules and make sure that there isn't some other timeline requirement - in my case, there wasn't).  This is assuming of course that you're sending these to them as a tactic to try to get them to drop the case.  I had every intention of having the docs before them (and filed with the court) a full week before trial, but ended up running late and chose not to pay to overnight them at the last minute.  The result was that Plaintiff's attorney received them on a Friday and (unbeknownst to me) filled out a Notice of Dismissal the very same day (so in my case, the tactic worked).  However, they never did me the courtesy of making a phone call and didn't mail the document out until the following Monday.  I spent the intervening days before my trial frantically checking the court's website and making calls to the Clerk to find out if the case had been dropped.  I went through a lot of unnecessary stress, one sleepless night, and a trip to court for nothing; a day or two later, the letter arrived and the court FINALLY updated their website (backdating the entry, so it looked as though they had done things in a timely manner).  So in the end, waiting too long was detrimental. 

 

I think there is text and signatures, from the OC saying the documents are correct. One is even notarized. This was in the response to RFP and Declaration. Nothing in the complaint however.

 

You may want to post redacted versions here (any identifying information like your name or account numbers very thoroughly blacked out) for folks here to take a look at.  Is one of them labelled, "Affidavit of Sale of Individual Account," or something to that effect?  I had one of these in my case (probably robosigned) and notarized (again, I suspect that the the notarization was faked by Plaintiff).  Regardless, it should be treated as inadmissible if there is no one from the OC in court to verify it (someone from the JDB is not acceptable).  Also, in my case, the Affidavit was dated something like 9 months after the supposed sale of the alleged account, which made is suspect as being prepared in anticipation of litigation (and therefore inadmissible, as Seadragon alluded to above) - see my docs for mention of this.  The crucial part is when the document was actually prepared, not whether or not they included it with the actual complaint (you may even see documents not previously mentioned when you get back the response to the CCP 98 Request, and they are allowed to do this).  If I recall properly, I ended up ditching the CCP2015.5 argument because calawyer mentioned that it doesn't hold up in court.  You might want to look into this, but I think most would agree that the other arguments against such docs are a lot more useful.

 

-Something off topic, I Just looked on the court schedule and noticed there are three other cases at the same time, place and with the same judge. Do they try and put us on some kind of judgement assembly line or what?

 

They definitely do.  Think about it this way:  if a lawyer has to go to court to try to litigate this case (especially if it's a rent-a-lawyer being hired by the Plaintiff), they want to use their time efficiently (for all I know, they may even offer Plaintiffs volume discounts).  And bear in mind that what you see on the court's website may not be all that the lawyer is dealing with that day.  When I looked on the docket for my case, the same JDB had just two or three others scheduled for the same day.  When I actually got there however, the courtroom was packed and my opposition was running around with her hair on fire because there were something like 12 cases for her to deal with (a lot of these were things like Motions, which apparently didn't come up when I searched).  So if you get lucky, it's possible that your opponent may have his/her hands full.  I don't know how often this actually happens (it didn't seem like it was all that common), but it did for me.  If your case goes all the way to trial, check the paper list hanging outside the courtroom door that morning and see what the caseload is for your JDB's counsel.  It could help you read into the opposition's state of mind.

 

Best of luck with things.  Keep your cool as you hammer through these final days, let us know how you're doing, and ask questions.  I hope to hear you telling us all that you crushed it in the end.

 

Best, 

 

H8sPP

 

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definetly want a court reporter the audio can't be used on appeal. You would have to jump through to many hoops to use the recording and then would have it transcribed. Also a court reporter might make them withdraw.

 

Alright I'll definitely get the reporter.

 

 

As to the timeline you can look online at the local rules. Alot of courts vary greatly between 30 days out and such if you are submitting your own ccp98 you have to get that to them before 30 days before trial if not then the local rule for trial briefs is most important.

 

I thought they only send a ccp98, why would I submit one?

 

 @h8spleadingpaper 

 

"The court finds trial briefs to be very helpful and encourages their submission. Any trial brief must be filed with the judicial assistant in the assigned department, and a courtesy copy delivered to the assigned judge, by 12:00 p.m. one court day before trial call. This does not preclude supplemental briefs on specific issues that arise during the trial." - Local Rules

 

So that settles that I'll send it early, and the objection to declaration at the same time?

 

 

The affidavit from the oc was that made after the lawsuit was started? If so it was prepared in anticipation of litigation and object to it. Also remember any affidavit that doesn't have the blurb from ccp2015.5 can be thrown out the case for that is Kulshrestha v. First Union Commercial Corp.,33 Cal. 4th 601 (Cal. 2004)

 

The Dec. in Lieu has the blurb, and it's dated very recent. That's just for Maria Marin though, with her signature. Also, something I noticed, she wrote the date as x/110/15, very sloppy.

 

There's a Bill of Sale that looks robo signed from the OC dated 2013

 

Affidavit of claim and certification of amount due was signed and notarized by the OC several months after the suit was filed.

 

 

 

The response to RFP has the blurb, it's in blue ink and dated after the Dec. in Lieu. Looks like Maria Marin was in town.

 

There's an affidavit of sale of accounts by original creditor which is dated 2013 and notarized, but the notary says it expired 9 months ago.

 

A certificate of conformity which says an attorney who has 5th grader handwriting witnessed the signing of the affidavit.

 

 

It doesn't look like I can use ccp2015.5. 

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Alright I'll definitely get the reporter.

 

 

 

I thought they only send a ccp98, why would I submit one?

 

 @h8spleadingpaper 

 

"The court finds trial briefs to be very helpful and encourages their submission. Any trial brief must be filed with the judicial assistant in the assigned department, and a courtesy copy delivered to the assigned judge, by 12:00 p.m. one court day before trial call. This does not preclude supplemental briefs on specific issues that arise during the trial." - Local Rules

 

So that settles that I'll send it early, and the objection to declaration at the same time?

 

 

 

The Dec. in Lieu has the blurb, and it's dated very recent. That's just for Maria Marin though, with her signature. Also, something I noticed, she wrote the date as x/110/15, very sloppy.

 

There's a Bill of Sale that looks robo signed from the OC dated 2013

 

Affidavit of claim and certification of amount due was signed and notarized by the OC several months after the suit was filed.

 

 

 

The response to RFP has the blurb, it's in blue ink and dated after the Dec. in Lieu. Looks like Maria Marin was in town.

 

There's an affidavit of sale of accounts by original creditor which is dated 2013 and notarized, but the notary says it expired 9 months ago.

 

A certificate of conformity which says an attorney who has 5th grader handwriting witnessed the signing of the affidavit.

 

 

It doesn't look like I can use ccp2015.5. 

But it was prepared in anticipation of litigation, it is inadmissible.

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I thought they only send a ccp98, why would I submit one?

 

Hey, John.  So sorry I'm just reading this now and that I misspoke.  I meant CCP96 of course (the request for all evidence and witnesses which Plaintiff intends to bring to court), not CCP98.  Hope I didn't throw you.

 

 @h8spleadingpaper 

 

"The court finds trial briefs to be very helpful and encourages their submission. Any trial brief must be filed with the judicial assistant in the assigned department, and a courtesy copy delivered to the assigned judge, by 12:00 p.m. one court day before trial call. This does not preclude supplemental briefs on specific issues that arise during the trial." - Local Rules

 

So that settles that I'll send it early, and the objection to declaration at the same time?

 

Yes, I sent my written Objection to Plaintiff's CCP98 Declaration at the same time as my Trial Brief.  The idea, at least in my mind, was to show the opposition what kind of a fight they were going to be facing in court and give them the option to move on to lower hanging fruit.  Also, be sure to remember to include your Declaration in Support of the written Objection to the Dec. In Lieu.

 

 

The Dec. in Lieu has the blurb, and it's dated very recent. That's just for Maria Marin though, with her signature. Also, something I noticed, she wrote the date as x/110/15, very sloppy.

 

In regard to Maria Marin, I found out during my prep that she appears to work in the San Diego office of the JDB.  Depending on where your Trial is scheduled, this could be helpful, both in your written Objection to the Dec In Lieu (i.e. - if San Diego is not within 150 miles of your court), as well as in anticipating whether or not it will be worth it to the Plaintiff to fly her in as a witness.  And bear in mind that even if they do, as an employee of the JDB, she should not be considered a competent witness with personal knowledge of the OC's business practices.  If it gets that far and she shows up, grill her on the witness stand. 

 

There's a Bill of Sale that looks robo signed from the OC dated 2013

 

It probably is.  Does it contain language that mentions a Purchase and Sale Agreement that isn't actually included?  This was the case for me, which I found important for a couple of reasons.  One, because it would presumably contain the names and account numbers related to the Bill of Sale.  Two, it would likely contain language that indicates that the OC does not provide any warranties or guarantees that the accounts being sold have been verified as legitimate and collectable.  And that is important. 

 

Affidavit of claim and certification of amount due was signed and notarized by the OC several months after the suit was filed.

 

The response to RFP has the blurb, it's in blue ink and dated after the Dec. in Lieu. Looks like Maria Marin was in town.

 

Not necessarily.  Remember that the opposition's offices can mail these things to each other quite easily.

 

 

There's an affidavit of sale of accounts by original creditor which is dated 2013 and notarized, but the notary says it expired 9 months ago.

 

A certificate of conformity which says an attorney who has 5th grader handwriting witnessed the signing of the affidavit.

 

 

It doesn't look like I can use ccp2015.5. 

 

As you approach trial (not sure how far out you are), you might want to get Anon Amos and/or calawyer to weigh in on a few things.  These guys really saved my bacon and provided me with most of the info that went into my Objections and Trial Brief that you found on my thread.  

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true that about Calawyer and Anon Amos. As for trial, Keep careful, i mean ears on everything said in the beginning, Object if the attorney says your account this and that but Make Sure that you request a Statement of Decision first thing in the trial after in limine motions are heard. Also try to get the witness sequestered if possible, this will help get them away from the evidence at the table and since they cannot here objections the cannot tailor their testimony. Make them use the witness stand.

 

In recent trials the witness was handing the attorneys papers and acting as a trial assistant. Lets get on with gathering questions from the witness. here are some but you really want to trash their knowledge.

 

 

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true that about Calawyer and Anon Amos. As for trial, Keep careful, i mean ears on everything said in the beginning, Object if the attorney says your account this and that but Make Sure that you request a Statement of Decision first thing in the trial after in limine motions are heard. Also try to get the witness sequestered if possible, this will help get them away from the evidence at the table and since they cannot here objections the cannot tailor their testimony. Make them use the witness stand.

 

In recent trials the witness was handing the attorneys papers and acting as a trial assistant. Lets get on with gathering questions from the witness. here are some but you really want to trash their knowledge.

 

 

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Hey, John.  So sorry I'm just reading this now and that I misspoke.  I meant CCP96 of course (the request for all evidence and witnesses which Plaintiff intends to bring to court), not CCP98.  Hope I didn't throw you.

 

 

No worries, I got it.

 

Yes, I sent my written Objection to Plaintiff's CCP98 Declaration at the same time as my Trial Brief.  The idea, at least in my mind, was to show the opposition what kind of a fight they were going to be facing in court and give them the option to move on to lower hanging fruit.  Also, be sure to remember to include your Declaration in Support of the written Objection to the Dec. In Lieu.

 

Ok if you posted the redacted version of yours I should have that as well. Each of these three gets stamped by the court right?

 

In regard to Maria Marin, I found out during my prep that she appears to work in the San Diego office of the JDB.  Depending on where your Trial is scheduled, this could be helpful, both in your written Objection to the Dec In Lieu (i.e. - if San Diego is not within 150 miles of your court), as well as in anticipating whether or not it will be worth it to the Plaintiff to fly her in as a witness.  And bear in mind that even if they do, as an employee of the JDB, she should not be considered a competent witness with personal knowledge of the OC's business practices.  If it gets that far and she shows up, grill her on the witness stand. 

 

The address they gave for service is in San Jose, I guess that's H&H hq

 

It probably is.  Does it contain language that mentions a Purchase and Sale Agreement that isn't actually included?  This was the case for me, which I found important for a couple of reasons.  One, because it would presumably contain the names and account numbers related to the Bill of Sale.  Two, it would likely contain language that indicates that the OC does not provide any warranties or guarantees that the accounts being sold have been verified as legitimate and collectable.  And that is important. 

 

I didn't see anything about an agreement however it stated that it was sold "AS IS' and "WITH ALL FAULTS"

 

As you approach trial (not sure how far out you are), you might want to get Anon Amos and/or calawyer to weigh in on a few things.  These guys really saved my bacon and provided me with most of the info that went into my Objections and Trial Brief that you found on my thread.  

 

Thank you, I  haven't even had time to look at the objections yet and figure out what mine would be, when I get there hopefully they have time for input.

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true that about Calawyer and Anon Amos. As for trial, Keep careful, i mean ears on everything said in the beginning, Object if the attorney says your account this and that but Make Sure that you request a Statement of Decision first thing in the trial after in limine motions are heard. Also try to get the witness sequestered if possible, this will help get them away from the evidence at the table and since they cannot here objections the cannot tailor their testimony. Make them use the witness stand.

 

In recent trials the witness was handing the attorneys papers and acting as a trial assistant. Lets get on with gathering questions from the witness. here are some but you really want to trash their knowledge.

 

 

Thank you Seadragon,

 

How would I know when in limine motions are heard? And when and how do I request the witness to be sequestered, before trial?

 

That seems like an obvious conflict of interest, no judge should allow a witness to do that.

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Ok if you posted the redacted version of yours I should have that as well. Each of these three gets stamped by the court right?

 

​Had to look back at my thread to answer this one (I always forget how conformed copies work).  Looks like I sent copies out to the Plaintiff first (because I was in a time crunch), then brought the originals to the court to be filed.  Make sure you sign your original Objection, Declaration in Support of Objection, and Trial Brief in blue ink, before turning them in to the court, in case the Clerk gets anal about it.  Take a set of copies along with you and have the Clerk stamp (conform) them for you when you turn these originals in.  These stamped copies are your proof that you filed everything properly and timely with the court.  So in sum, you'll have (3) sets  of everything:  originals to the court, one set of copies to Plaintiff, and one set of conformed copies for yourself.  Of course, I can't imagine that giving conformed copies to the Plaintiff would hurt anything either; I've gotten docs from the opposition that were conformed in the past.

 

 

The address they gave for service is in San Jose, I guess that's H&H hq

 

Yep, sure is.  And using the attorneys' address in this way was also found to be a no-no in Target vs. Rocha.  This is a direct life from the written Objection doc on my thread:  

 

"The Court further found that giving an attorney’s address or other location where the witness does not actually reside does not comply with CCP § 98."

 

If you haven't already, I STRONGLY recommend you read over the docs, make sure everything in them is applicable to your case, and see if anything further needs to be added (no two cases are identical, so it's likely you will need to add some things and take others away, based on the particulars of your case). You have to be super-proactive on this and I can't stress the importance of it enough.  I can't remember how far away you are from Trial, but I feel like you're getting close, no?

 

 

I didn't see anything about an agreement however it stated that it was sold "AS IS' and "WITH ALL FAULTS"

 

I'd like to hear what Anon Amos, RyanEX, or calawyer think about this.  It might work in your favor, since it seems like it implies that there may be no warranties whatsoever regarding the accuracy or collectability of the alleged account.  Perhaps that's why they included some of the other docs you mentioned (i.e. - Affidavit of Claim and Certification of Amount)?  Could be important to your case.

 

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"AS IS" can be expected, and easily argued that it doesn't imply any accuracy problems etc.,  but "WITH ALL FAULTS" (that's a new one), most certainly implies that there are further problems, in addition to our standard objections.

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As far as affidavits go (not ccp 98 declarations), you may very well have objections to it for not complying with CCP 2015.5. However you have even stronger objections to it. Hearsay (affidavits) are not admissible at trial, CA Evidence Code 1200. The case to site is Elkins v Superior Court (if you read this case it contains a lot of other case law as well).

 

Affidavits are inadmissible at trial, plaintiff can only submit business records that meet all the subcategories of CA Evidence Code 1271. They must also provide a proper witness to lay a foundation for any evidence.

 

Unless no objection is formed.

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How would I know when in limine motions are heard? And when and how do I request the witness to be sequestered, before trial?

 

My understanding is that at the very beginning of the Trial, the judge should ask if there are any motions and/or Objections to be heard.  At this point you call attention to your written Objections (which the the judge should have, since you'll be filing a copy with the court in advance).  Since you, the judge, and the Plaintiff all have copies at that point, everyone can follow along.  The idea here is to get the judge to agree that your Objections are to be upheld, thereby preventing the Plaintiff from having the Dec In Lieu admitted as evidence.  Of course, you also have to be prepared to grill Maria Marin if she shows up, because her direct testimony can take the place of the Dec In Lieu if she is present.

 

That seems like an obvious conflict of interest, no judge should allow a witness to do that.

 

I wouldn't bet the farm on it.  Some of these judges seem to allow ridiculous breaches of protocol, especially if they don't think you are likely to file an Appeal if things go south.  Remember that the judges and attorneys are fellow bar members and work with each other every day, while you are an outsider to their environment.  I don't want to freak you out or anything, but I think it helps for Defendants to know that things may not always go the way that seems just.  The lack of uniformity in the legal system is pretty shocking sometimes, so we have to do our best to be prepared for anything and call the opposition out when things are happening that shouldn't be.  

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@h8spleadingpaper @Anon Amos @Seadragon

 

Sorry for the late reply. It's been a tough week as someone cut me off on my motorcycle and I wrecked it, luckily I wasn't injured badly.

 

Thanks for filling me in guys! I just passed 45 days from trial this week and the CCP 96 went out.

 

A question about CCP 2015.5, every single page of information that is intended for evidence must have the blurb on the same page, or can they use a separate page for the "the following documents"?

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Hey, John4600.

 

No problems here.  So sorry to hear about your bike, but really glad to hear you're okay.  That's great that you got your CCP96 Request out, despite all that's going on.  I found it was good to feel the tumblers start to fall into place as trial time got close and I got to check things off my list.  I think it's also an important step in letting the opposition know that you're informed, serious, and not about to just roll over or not show up to trial (which is the premise that their business model is built on).  

 

I want to make sure that everyone knows what you're driving at in regard to CCP 2015.5.  I assume that you're referring to the blurb that is supposed to be included in affidavits, whereby the affiant (signer) is stating, under the penalty of perjury and by the laws of the state in which the document is signed, that the statements they make within the body of the affidavit are true.  As such, the blurb would not appear on the individual evidentiary documents, just the affidavit itself.  But maybe I'm misunderstanding your question?  Do you have some kind of strange affidavit that doesn't make particular statement about your alleged account/debt, but instead says something like, "I swear, under the penalty of perjury, in the state of California, that all of the attached documents are valid"?  If so, it would be something I haven't seen before.  

 

It sounds like you've been through a lot lately and I know I've said this before, but if you have a particular document that you're wondering about, you may want to try to upload a redacted copy here for folks to check out.  If you're really uncomfortable with that, you could trying sending it to some of us individually via PM and ask for feedback.  I'm definitely no expert like some of the other folks here, but I'll help if I can.

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Hey, John4600.

 

No problems here.  So sorry to hear about your bike, but really glad to hear you're okay.  That's great that you got your CCP96 Request out, despite all that's going on.  I found it was good to feel the tumblers start to fall into place as trial time got close and I got to check things off my list.  I think it's also an important step in letting the opposition know that you're informed, serious, and not about to just roll over or not show up to trial (which is the premise that their business model is built on).  

 

I want to make sure that everyone knows what you're driving at in regard to CCP 2015.5.  I assume that you're referring to the blurb that is supposed to be included in affidavits, whereby the affiant (signer) is stating, under the penalty of perjury and by the laws of the state in which the document is signed, that the statements they make within the body of the affidavit are true.  As such, the blurb would not appear on the individual evidentiary documents, just the affidavit itself.  But maybe I'm misunderstanding your question?  Do you have some kind of strange affidavit that doesn't make particular statement about your alleged account/debt, but instead says something like, "I swear, under the penalty of perjury, in the state of California, that all of the attached documents are valid"?  If so, it would be something I haven't seen before.  

 

It sounds like you've been through a lot lately and I know I've said this before, but if you have a particular document that you're wondering about, you may want to try to upload a redacted copy here for folks to check out.  If you're really uncomfortable with that, you could trying sending it to some of us individually via PM and ask for feedback.  I'm definitely no expert like some of the other folks here, but I'll help if I can.

 

 

It's just not clear on either the Dec. in Lieu or the RFP response with regards to CCP 2015.5. There's a blurb signed by Maria Marin, and from other people at random occasions. It's not very consistent. Some will have the blurb but it will be a generic contract between JDB and OC with no mention of my name.

 

I haven't gone through the trouble to send redacted copies yet, I will soon though.

 

Thanks H8

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