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Sent DV letter to Midland.........Question about violations.....


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My CMRRR letter was signed for on Thursday and contained this.......

 

 

If your offices are able to provide the proper documentation as requested in the following Declaration, I will require at least 30 days to investigate this information and during such time all collection activity must cease and desist.

 

 

I would also like to request, in writing, that no telephone contact be made by your offices to my home or to my place of employment. If your offices attempt telephone communication with me, including but not limited to computer generated calls and calls or correspondence sent to or with any third parties, it will be considered harassment and I will have no choice but to file suit. All future communications with me MUST be done in writing and sent to the address noted in this letter by USPS.
 

 

Friday morning the usual 4 calls.........

 

So how many violations is this if any?

I think it is 2.........they called after being told not to and they continued collections before validation.

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My CMRRR letter was signed for on Thursday and contained this.......

 

If your offices are able to provide the proper documentation as requested in the following Declaration, I will require at least 30 days to investigate this information and during such time all collection activity must cease and desist.

 

I would also like to request, in writing, that no telephone contact be made by your offices to my home or to my place of employment. If your offices attempt telephone communication with me, including but not limited to computer generated calls and calls or correspondence sent to or with any third parties, it will be considered harassment and I will have no choice but to file suit. All future communications with me MUST be done in writing and sent to the address noted in this letter by USPS.

 

There is NOTHING in the FCDPA that gives you 30 days to investigate their documentation and they know it.  There is also no partial cease and desist (i.e. no phone calls) under the FCDPA.  They are free to contact you one more time to tell you what action they will take and it is not a violation of a cease and desist.

 

Had you stated I revoke consent to call my cell phone or any other number you would have had a TCPA violation X 4.  But you didn't.  Even if you had done a full cease and desist if they did not make contact with you in those 4 calls it would not be a violation because you don't know that they were trying to collect without DVing vs telling you they won't contact you again.

 

DO NOT use cut and paste letters from the internet.  They are FULL of errors especially the ones on this site.  MOST of what the letter demands they do not have to do under the FCDPA and they simply ignore once they realize it is the same cut and paste nonsense from the internet.

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@BeachesandBeer

 

I agree with the other posters but will simply clarify the issues.  :-)

 

 

If your offices are able to provide the proper documentation as requested in the following Declaration, I will require at least 30 days to investigate this information and during such time all collection activity must cease and desist.

 

 

 

The above is not mentioned in the FDCPA.  

 

 

I would also like to request, in writing, that no telephone contact be made by your offices to my home or to my place of employment. If your offices attempt telephone communication with me, including but not limited to computer generated calls and calls or correspondence sent to or with any third parties, it will be considered harassment and I will have no choice but to file suit. All future communications with me MUST be done in writing and sent to the address noted in this letter by USPS.

 

 

The above is what some refer to as a "limited cease and desist" (C&D).     The FDCPA makes no such provision.  

 

1692c:

 

 

(a) Communication with the consumer generally
Without the prior consent of the consumer given directly to the debt collector or the express permission of a court of competent jurisdiction, a debt collector may not communicate with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt—

(1) at any unusual time or place or a time or place known or which should be known to be inconvenient to the consumer.  In the absence of knowledge of circumstances to the contrary, a debt collector shall assume that the convenient time for communicating with a consumer is after 8 o’clock antemeridian and before 9 o’clock postmeridian, local time at the consumer’s location;

(2) if the debt collector knows the consumer is represented by an attorney with respect to such debt and has knowledge of, or can readily ascertain, such attorney’s name and address, unless the attorney fails to respond within a reasonable period of time to a communication from the debt collector or unless the attorney consents to direct communication with the consumer; or

(3) at the consumer’s place of employment if the debt collector knows or has reason to know that the consumer’s employer prohibits the consumer from receiving such communication.

 

Note subsection (1).    It includes "usual time or place known or which should be known to be inconvenient to the consumer."   

 

1.   The subsection does not reference the method of communication (phone call vs. letter).   It only references "time or place".

 

2.   I'm not sure one's home is considered to be an "usual place". 

 

3.   The Act provides for a specific allowable time.

 

One might have to show that the home and the allowable hours are inconvenient.   Additionally, some CAs/JDBs have considered a limited C&D to be a cease and desist of all communication.  In the absence of why one cannot be contacted by phone at home, the limited C&D might present a problem if one is willing to receive letters.

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Had you stated I revoke consent to call my cell phone or any other number you would have had a TCPA violation X 4. 

 

 

This is what I was thinking of......a TCPA violation.........I guess revoke consent would have been better.

I know what was asked for in my letter they are not really required to do but I just wanted to make a point that I was going to put up a fight should they choose to pursue me. We will see......

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  • 2 weeks later...

Update......16 days after CMRRR was signed for and still no calls BUT........I got a letter with this.....

 

 

The purpose of this letter is to advise you that you did not provide sufficient information to investigate your
dispute of the credit reporting of your above-referenced account pursuant to the Fair Credit Reporting Act.

We understand that you are disputing the accuracy of our records concerning the above referenced account.
After reviewing the information you provided, as well as our account notes, and information provided by the
previous creditor, we are unable to determine the nature of your dispute, and consequently deny that our
records are inaccurate.

ln order to further investigate your dispute, we need additional information to identify the basis of your dispute,
including a complete explanation of your dispute would be helpful. Further, copies of any documentation you
may have to support your dispute. ln the interim, we have requested that the three major credit bureaus
change the status of this account to "Disputed".

Examples of documentation we need or which would be helpful include the following:

Paid in Full or Account Settled: a) a copy of the front and back of payment instrument with copy of
settlement offer or statement showing balance and account number; B) a copy of paid in full or settlement in full
letter showing account number.

Fraud or ldentity Theft: a) a copy of a police report; B) Federal Trade Commission Fraud Affidavit that has
been filled out (which can be obtained at www.ftc.gov/idtheft); or c) notarized fraud affidavit.

Balance Discrepancy: a) copy of contract that states rates for time frame of disputed service; B) a copy of
bills or statements that show amount owed or rates; or c) a more detailed explanation of disputed charges.

Please send the above information to:
Attention: Consumer Support Services
P.O. Box 939069
San Diego, CA92193

We can be reached at (800) 825-8131, Ext. 32980 should you have any further questions.

Sincerely,

Consumer Support Services

This account may still be reported on your credit report as unpaid.

 

Now I can see them asking IF any of those were true........but why not just send proper validation along with the letter?

Saying I didn't provide proper info is a cop out as I clearly stated I wanted proper validation.

I wonder if they will validate before the 30 days.......

Maybe this is a new tactic from MCM.....anyone else?

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MCM dated letter of 7-11-2014 and sent CMRRR for validation signed for 7-31-2014.

 

I did a copy and paste letter with a few added modifications and I know most it they have no obligation to comply with.

It was mostly to get them to go away but here is the letter..........

 

 

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is being sent to you in response to a notice sent to me on July 11 2014. Be advised that this is not a refusal to pay, but a notice sent pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, 15 USC 1692g Sec. 809 (B) that your claim is disputed and validation is requested.

This is NOT a request for “verification” or proof of my mailing address, but a request for VALIDATION made pursuant to the above named Title and Section. I respectfully request that your offices provide me with competent evidence that I have any legal obligation to pay you.

Please provide me with the following:


What the money you say I owe is for;
Explain and show me how you calculated what you say I owe;
Provide me with copies of any papers that show I agreed to pay what you say I owe;
Provide a verification or copy of any judgment if applicable;
Identify the original creditor;
Prove the Statute of Limitations has not expired on this account
Show me that you are licensed to collect in my state
Provide me with your license numbers and Registered Agent

At this time I will also inform you that if your offices have reported invalidated information to any of the 3 major Credit Bureau’s (Equifax, Experian or TransUnion) this action might constitute fraud under both Federal and State Laws. Due to this fact, if any negative mark is found on any of my credit reports by your company or the company that you represent I will not hesitate in bringing legal action against you for the following:

Violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act
Violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act
Defamation of Character
If your offices are able to provide the proper documentation as requested in the following Declaration, I will require at least 30 days to investigate this information and during such time all collection activity must cease and desist.

Also during this validation period, if any action is taken which could be considered detrimental to any of my credit reports, I will consult with my legal counsel for suit. This includes  listing any information to a credit reporting repository that could be inaccurate or invalidated or verifying an account as accurate when in fact there is no provided proof that it is.

If your offices fail to respond to this validation request within 30 days from the date of your receipt, all references to this account must be deleted and completely removed from my credit file and a copy of such deletion request shall be sent to me immediately.

I would also like to request, in writing, that no telephone contact be made by your offices to my home or to my place of employment. If your offices attempt telephone communication with me, including but not limited to computer generated calls and calls or correspondence sent to or with any third parties, it will be considered harassment and I will have no choice but to file suit. All future communications with me MUST be done in writing and sent to the address noted in this letter by USPS.

It would be advisable that you assure that your records are in order before taking any legal action. Those records would include 100% proof of standing and any witnesses that will appear in person at trial to prove any claims made.

I also reserve my right to invoke arbitration if available at any time.
 

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@BeachesandBeer

 

Just to make sure, did the first letter you receive contain the 30-day validation notice?

 

The reason they sent you the response was because you referenced your CR.   When disputing an entry on a CR, you have to give a specific reason for a dispute such as an incorrect balance or incorrect date of last payment.   That's what they meant by "additional information".

 

Also, they're not required to validate within 30 days.  The 30 days only applies to the amount of time consumers have to request validation after receiving the first letter from a debt collector.

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Yes 30 day notice was on the back of the letter which I complied with.

 

Yes you are right they don't have 30 days to respond.......what I meant was they can't try to collect until they validate.

 

I guess they don't know how to read because my letter is clear......

 

 

At this time I will also inform you that if your offices have reported invalidated information to any of the 3 major Credit Bureau’s (Equifax, Experian or TransUnion) this action might constitute fraud under both Federal and State Laws. Due to this fact, if any negative mark is found on any of my credit reports by your company or the company that you represent I will not hesitate in bringing legal action against you for the following:

 

It states if.........I thought it was clear enough.......maybe not.

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@BeachesandBeer

 

At this time I will also inform you that if your offices have reported invalidated information to any of the 3 major Credit Bureau’s (Equifax, Experian or TransUnion) this action might constitute fraud under both Federal and State Laws. Due to this fact, if any negative mark is found on any of my credit reports by your company or the company that you represent I will not hesitate in bringing legal action against you for the following:

 

 

If they make a new entry before validating, that's a violation.   If they had already reported on your CR prior to receiving your request, they didn't do anything wrong.  If they updated an existing entry before validating, you might have a claim.   However, it would not be considered fraud unless that's in your state laws.   Otherwise, it would merely be a violation of the FDCPA. 

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@BeachesandBeer

 

No your letter is not clear.  My guess is you used that God awful one that is on this site and all over the internet.  Did you send a letter demanding a laundry list of junk like this:

  • What the money you say I owe is for;
  • Explain and show me how you calculated what you say I owe;
  • Provide me with copies of any papers that show I agreed to pay what you say I owe;
  • Provide a verification or copy of any judgment if applicable;
  • Identify the original creditor;
  • Prove the Statute of Limitations has not expired on this account;
  • Show me that you are licensed to collect in my state; and
  • Provide me with your license numbers and Registered Agent.

Their response is probably spot on if you sent this list along with all that double talk and baseless threats.  The ONLY thing they have to provide in validation with you is the amount, name and address of the original creditor.  Regardless of the laundry list in your letter if they gave you those 3 things they can still collect. 

 

Unless they already have a judgment they do not have to provide any documents at all to you.

 

That letter you sent either gets ignored or the response you got.  You would have been much better of sending a one sentence letter stating "I dispute this debt please validate."  

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@Clydesmom See post 11 above I posted the letter and yea it's that one with a few lines added at the end.

 

If you look here.......

 

http://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/rules/rulemaking-regulatory-reform-proceedings/fair-debt-collection-practices-act-text

 


Sec 809 5b says.....

 

 

(B) If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector.

 

You are saying them stating in a letter that I owed Citi x amount of money and now I owe them is the definition of verification from the above?

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You are saying them stating in a letter that I owed Citi x amount of money and now I owe them is the definition of verification from the above?

 

@BeachesandBeer

 

Yep it sure is.  The threshold for validation/verification with you is so low you can trip over it.  The second problem is the courts are divided on whether reporting a trade line is collection activity.  Until someone pursues it all the way to the top and SCOTUS issues a defining opinion you take your chances on pursuing that angle.

 

If you are trying to scare Midland that letter didn't do it.  If they are going to pursue you they will regardless of any letter you send them.  

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If it's past SOL, I would send MCM a letter telling them they must remove the entry for their failure to validate. I had 2 accounts w/ MCM in which after sending them DV they said it was insufficient info and needed me to provide them more info so they can investigate. I waited until 30 days of their receipt had elapsed and told them they needed to delete the entries because their continued reporting after failing to validate was a violation. They really didn't have to but they sent me letters confirming they would delete the entries. 

 

Maybe I lucked out but I like to share my experience because with a little firm tone they seem to just cave in. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I think I may try what you did Is8720......Midland did not validate and has resumed collections by sending another letter offering settlement amounts. I am going to send a letter CMRRR saying they did not properly validate and resumed collections which is 1 violation and ask them to remove any and all entries for me.

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