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Az Piano Lady 14

Bk and IRS

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Hi All,  Wondering if a BK 7 will wipe away a tax liability from a 1099C??/  I had a large debt forgiven and they have said they will 100 me this year.

 

My tax guy said I will owe over 10,000.  Guess I don't have that amount handy.  Also have a judgment and trying to decide on BK.  It would make it easier if it would also wipe out the tax liability.

 

Who made the law a pension plan you can't draw on for 15 years should count in your income.  Plain stupid.

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I don't really know how the IRS will rule on this, but my guess is:

 

1.  If you declare BK 7 BEFORE the 1099c is issued, the debt and the "found" income goes away.  No taxes.

 

2.  If you declare BK 7 AFTER the 1099c is issued, you have already received the "found" income and therefore owe taxes on it.  Taxes do not go away in a BK 7.

 

Is it possible you can qualify for insolvency?  IRS Form 982?

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I would discuss this with a BK attorney. Once the tax is assessed, it has to be 3 years old before BK can be used so after 1099C is probably not the way to go.

Also, the IRS could counter and say that because the debt was forgiven before the BK, the BK rules do not apply and you owe the taxes. This is not something I would want to be a test case on.

If you don't mind my asking, what in the world is the amount of debt and what was it on? To have a $10,000 tax on a debt would put you in the minimum of a 25% - 28% bracket making the about $35K - $40K at least. In fact, because of the amount, I would get a 2nd opinion on the taxes first. Especially if you used someone like Jackson Hewitt or HR Block. Try to find a CPA and enrolled agent to look at this. It could be that the tax included you current income in the equation which means the total extra is only about $6000 rather than $10000.

Look into a payment place. Generally for debts under $25000 and proposals for 36 months, the IRS accepts them as a rule of thumb. That would work out to about $300/month including interest and fees.

Finally, whatever you do FILE YOUR TAXES, even if you cannot pay. The IRS will work with you (they really are the most inefficient debt collector in the world considering the power they have and amount that goes uncollected) if you file your taxes. If you don't, it will make things much much worse.

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This is a debt from a HELOC    The loan was not from the first    but from a bank where I had had excelllent credit that offered me a loan.  I was somewhat surprised but took it.  Then in 2009 they wanted to give me more money, which was ironic as I had just lost my high paying job.  so fast forward to now they want to forgive the debt , and 1099 the forgiveness.  Hence the tax stuff

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If they have not forgiven the debt yet and the clock has not run out, you might need to consider doing a BK to avoid the taxes before the debt is forgiven. That would also wipe out the judgement. I would ask the HELOC bank first if they would mind you going that route since they are admitting they will never see the money again anyways.

Before doing the BK though, I would get a 2nd tax opinion. Odds are, your current prepared might not want to do the work to show you are insolvent (and if you lost the house, odds are you are insolvent) which could wipe out part or all of the tax debt. You should also ask your current prepared to show you on 2014 forms what this would look like to see if they even did a form 985. If not, definitely get a 2nd opinion. Be a shame to file BK if you don't really owe any taxes.

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I did ask my tax preparer to compare to this year.  I am insolvent, but my husband is not because of his retirement  amount. I am wondering if I take 75% of the debt and he takes 25% if that will matter. Also  I was just throwing out 10,000. He acually said it would be more like 35,000.  I got the debt forgiveness letter a couple months ago, and they will be releasing their lien with the county recorder.

 

So I have not gotten the 1099C yet but it will be for 130,000. My tax guy said added to our income will result in that amount owed.

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The problem is, BK will not help you now because of the rules when it comes to income taxes. It would have helped you last year but now that the debt is forgiven, you have to wait for the 1099C. The issue is, the tax will not be assessed until 15 April 2016 and then the IRS is BK proof for 3 years after that. Also, with $35K, it is harder to get a payment plan and OICs rarely get approved regardless of what they say on the radio/TV.

Your best bet will be to sell off everything you can now and save as aggressively as you can to come up with an amount that will at least bring the debt below $25k. From there, you will have an easier time doing a payment plan for the rest. Don't bother with a BK because it will not help you.

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Is a forgiven debt the same as a cancelled debt??  And the example in the insolvency worksheet showed that married couples can divide  the debt into a %.   I am insolvant and my name is on all our possessions and purchases. 

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I would have to see the definitions. However, I believe for this discussion they are one and the same.

The form is Form 982, not 985. I do not see a divide out for spouses in said form so I do not think that is viable. You might be able to reduce the tax by doing married filing separately but check with a CPA (and again, I would use a CPA, not the kid at JH or HRB).

One other thing is that this was a 2nd mortgage. Was it on your personal residence? Did you get foreclosed on? Did the total of the 2nd mortgage plus the 1st mortgage equal less than the original purchase price? If the answers are yes, yes, and no, you might not owe any taxes under the line 1e rules for personal residences.

I am not an expert however and for the amount we are talking here, you really should see a decent tax CPA.

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This is a second on my personal residence.  I have never missed a pmt or even been late on my first.  The purchase price was 200.000. I put 10.000 down. So 190.000.  The second owed is 130.000.  I now owe 130.000  on my 1st.

 

I have an appt with a BK atty tommorrow.  My tax guy is really good and have used him for many years.  He said they can cancel the debt but it can be discharged in BK unless both parties agree to the cancellation. I will find out tomorrow if I can file chap 7.  I did the means test and it looks good , but as you advised see an atty.  Thanks

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That is your best option. For $35,000, I would not take the advice of internet users. I could be wrong about how this would work and since this is the IRS, who knows.

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I cannot believe how much paperwork there is . I had not seen my life insurance policies in 13 years. I told my hubby after getting and finding all this paperwork we are ready to make a will!!!!!   This on the plus side

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Never thought I would be happy to file BK but  it wipes out the Midland judgment and also the case i did win so they can't come after me again. SOL won't expire for 16 months due to the litigation. So that's included as well as the Heloc debt.   In my brave new world no credit allowed!!!!

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