About to move for arbitration next week... want to be prepared

[NewBeginning16]

Hi All! New here. I have one baddie on my reports.  It's a medical collection. I don't owe this because it should have been paid by Medi-Cal (yes, I am handling this with them, too). I have had a major health issue in the last year and a half after being healthy the majority of my life.  I am new to all of this.

Anyway, I am in California, so there are laws concerning bills like this and when they can be reported (150 days or longer, depending on the situation). The hospital and collection agency have both violated that law and a bunch of others. I am handling them both in different forums. They refuse to delete the collection and were partially responsible for it being there when it shouldn't have been. The NY Attorney General started something with the CRAs that went nationwide that requires them to wait a minimum of 180 days after the last date of delinquency for medical debt to be reported. They are quite aware of it and although I have sent them everything but a letter from God showing that I don't owe this and that it shouldn't have been on my credit in the first place, it remains on my reports and it's actually caused me to be denied credit. 

I already sent the MOV request letters out CMRRR and the 15 day deadlines are this weekend. So far, I have received some BS letter from TU telling me they are putting a 90 day fraud alert on my file (that I didn't ask for - I am a victim of identity theft and had one already). I have yet to hear anything from the other two. 

I've done a lot of reading, but I do have a few questions so I am properly prepared to proceed. 

I know for sure I am covered with arbitration with Experian. But I want to be sure I am covered with the other two. Since I have been denied credit, is requesting my reports from the other 2 enough to cover myself to be able to initiate arbitration? Or to be sure should I sign up with TU and EQ for their products? TIA!

[Clydesmom]

13 hours ago, NewBeginning16 said:

Since I have been denied credit, is requesting my reports from the other 2 enough to cover myself to be able to initiate arbitration?

No,

13 hours ago, NewBeginning16 said:

Or to be sure should I sign up with TU and EQ for their products? TIA!

It won't apply retro-actively to actions from the past.  It will cover anything going forward from the point you sign up.  You would need to sign up and pay for the service then start the process all over.

13 hours ago, NewBeginning16 said:

The NY Attorney General started something with the CRAs that went nationwide that requires them to wait a minimum of 180 days after the last date of delinquency for medical debt to be reported.

If they reported prior to this law taking effect then they are not in violation of it.  That law didn't go into effect all at once and are being phased in across the country.   It may not be in full effect in California yet.

 

 

[BV80]

15 hours ago, NewBeginning16 said:

The NY Attorney General started something with the CRAs that went nationwide that requires them to wait a minimum of 180 days after the last date of delinquency for medical debt to be reported. They are quite aware of it and although I have sent them everything but a letter from God showing that I don't owe this and that it shouldn't have been on my credit in the first place, it remains on my reports and it's actually caused me to be denied credit. 

Where has it been announced that the agreement between the NY A.G. and credit reporting agencies has gone nationwide?

[Clydesmom]

3 hours ago, BV80 said:

Where has it been announced that the agreement between the NY A.G. and credit reporting agencies has gone nationwide?

Here is one article I found that discusses it:  Medical Debt and Credit Score but mostly what the OP is referring to is the FICO 9 scoring model which most creditors still do not use.

[NewBeginning16]

I wasn't referring to the FICO scoring at all. I was referring to how they are not supposed to report a medical debt for 180 days from the DOFD. I have attached the agreement so you can read it in its entirety. The part I am referring to is on page 13. 

Also, California has its own laws pertaining to this and the CRAs are ultimately responsible for insuring what is on the report is accurate. I sent in proof that it shouldn't have been on my report in the first place. 

I would think the CRAs would be hard pressed to argue that they knew what they should have done but didn't do it because of what state it happened in. 

I will contact the NY AGs office to clarify the nationwide roll out. I know I've read it somewhere, but I see that's not enough. 

 

CRA Agreement Fully Executed 3.8.15 (1).pdf

[BV80]

40 minutes ago, NewBeginning16 said:

I will contact the NY AGs office to clarify the nationwide roll out. I know I've read it somewhere, but I see that's not enough. 

You've provided the NY agreement.   Here's a news article that lists the states who have their own agreements with the CRAs.

http://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2015/05/20/31-state-deal-should-make-credit-report-errors-easier-to-fix

[NewBeginning16]

The fact that I provided evidence that it shouldn't be on my report and they left it on is enough, no? One of them (I can't remember who at this point) told me they weren't reinvestigating anything further (after I did give new information supporting that it shouldn't be on my reports). 

I was already using Experian.com before doing all of this, so I should be good there, correct?

Once I join TransUnion.com and Equifax.com, do I need to do the MOVs again, or the whole dispute chain?

 

 

[fisthardcheese]

If California law is on your side and you have proof the debt is either reporting incorrectly or should not be there at all, have you tried to speak with some consumer attorneys about this first?  That would be much easier on you than going with arbitration on the 3 CRAs.  They have recently become very stubborn regarding arbitration.  Equifax is completely ignoring all arb filings and forcing consumers to file a motion to compel arbitration in federal court while Experian is fighting with AAA to claim that the consumer's claims are not subject to arbitration and/or the arb agreement does not apply to them.  It is not as easy as it once was to get them into arb in the first place.

I would talk to at least 2 (or more) attorneys who do regular FCRA work or who know the California laws you speak of.

[NewBeginning16]

3 hours ago, fisthardcheese said:

If California law is on your side and you have proof the debt is either reporting incorrectly or should not be there at all, have you tried to speak with some consumer attorneys about this first?  That would be much easier on you than going with arbitration on the 3 CRAs.  They have recently become very stubborn regarding arbitration.  Equifax is completely ignoring all arb filings and forcing consumers to file a motion to compel arbitration in federal court while Experian is fighting with AAA to claim that the consumer's claims are not subject to arbitration and/or the arb agreement does not apply to them.  It is not as easy as it once was to get them into arb in the first place.

I would talk to at least 2 (or more) attorneys who do regular FCRA work or who know the California laws you speak of.

Hi! Thanks so much for chiming in!

Yes, I have spoken to several and none want my case. I can't see why. I have both the hospital and the collection agency dead to rights (they have violated California law as clear as Baccarat crystal and I have proof in black and white).  I have the collection agency on a bunch of FDCPA, FCRA and California Civil Code violations, too. I feel I have all 3 CRAs as well, but it's been said here that I only can begin arb with Experian since I've been using their website for months. I haven't received an answer about how to proceed with TU and EQ yet since it's been said here that I have to start using their products and then begin again. 

I may have found the right people concerning the hospital to have it deleted, but after all they have put me through, I am suing the living you know what out of them even after. I'm not letting the CRAs out of this no matter what because if they had done their job (agreement or not), this never would have hit my credit. 

I do have a friend who has passed the bar who can assist me, I just thought that it was manageable with taking the CRAs to arb and the other 2 to court. I'm not new to all of the legal parts. I'm just swimming into a part of the pool I've never been in before. lol

 

 

[NewBeginning16]

I'm ready to proceed against Experian. I just received their no information, boilerplate response to my MOV in the mail today (on day 15, lol). 

Any advice before I initiate arbitration?

 

Have a safe, enjoyable long weekend. 

 

Thank you to all in the Armed Forces for their service. Especially to those who gave the ultimate sacrifice while doing so. 

[fisthardcheese]

My advice would be to read the AAA rules.  You will likely have the streamlined rules apply, so I would read those as well as the consumer supplemental rules.    Note that in arbitration, anything not objected to is considered waived.  I never waive any rights and object to everything the other side does that does not conform to the rules, or that is out of the bounds of the arbitration. There will be many of those, so keep an eye out.

Your first fight is likely to come when Experian claims that your contract you are using with arbitration does not apply, or that if it does apply, your FCRA claims are not among the arbitratable subject matters.  Be prepared for those arguments.

[NewBeginning16]

On 5/29/2016 at 4:26 AM, fisthardcheese said:

My advice would be to read the AAA rules.  You will likely have the streamlined rules apply, so I would read those as well as the consumer supplemental rules.    Note that in arbitration, anything not objected to is considered waived.  I never waive any rights and object to everything the other side does that does not conform to the rules, or that is out of the bounds of the arbitration. There will be many of those, so keep an eye out.

Your first fight is likely to come when Experian claims that your contract you are using with arbitration does not apply, or that if it does apply, your FCRA claims are not among the arbitratable subject matters.  Be prepared for those arguments.

Thanks, FHC! 

Don't I have to send a Demand Letter to their General Counsel first per their arb agreement?

[fisthardcheese]

On 6/2/2016 at 3:06 AM, NewBeginning16 said:

Thanks, FHC! 

Don't I have to send a Demand Letter to their General Counsel first per their arb agreement?

Those clauses that say you must notify them first and/or give them 30 days to respond before you file are designed to stall, frustrate you and get all of the information or evidence you may have up front without first paying the arbitration fees.  I used to abide by them and do everything by the book.  Once someone pointed out the design of those clauses, and I saw that this is exactly what they were doing (stalling, trying to frustrate me and trying to gather the information and evidence I have before starting arb), I have since started completely ignoring those notices.  I send the notice in the same envelope as my AAA demand forms and on the same day that I email the files to AAA to file the case.  You may chose to notice them per the contract or do it my way, it is completely up to you.

[NewBeginning16]

1 hour ago, fisthardcheese said:

Those clauses that say you must notify them first and/or give them 30 days to respond before you file are designed to stall, frustrate you and get all of the information or evidence you may have up front without first paying the arbitration fees.  I used to abide by them and do everything by the book.  Once someone pointed out the design of those clauses, and I saw that this is exactly what they were doing (stalling, trying to frustrate me and trying to gather the information and evidence I have before starting arb), I have since started completely ignoring those notices.  I send the notice in the same envelope as my AAA demand forms and on the same day that I email the files to AAA to file the case.  You may chose to notice them per the contract or do it my way, it is completely up to you.

Thank you again. 

I know I've seen a sample letter/notice around here somewhere. Any suggestions? I don't want to give them anymore than I need to. 

[BV80]

On 5/27/2016 at 2:35 AM, NewBeginning16 said:

Yes, I have spoken to several and none want my case. I can't see why. I have both the hospital and the collection agency dead to rights (they have violated California law as clear as Baccarat crystal and I have proof in black and white).  I have the collection agency on a bunch of FDCPA, FCRA and California Civil Code violations, too. I feel I have all 3 CRAs as well, but it's been said here that I only can begin arb with Experian since I've been using their website for months. I haven't received an answer about how to proceed with TU and EQ yet since it's been said here that I have to start using their products and then begin again. 

If you don't mind, could you specify which laws they violated and how?

[NewBeginning16]

1 hour ago, BV80 said:

If you don't mind, could you specify which laws they violated and how?

Which one? The hospital, the collection agency or EQ, EXP and TU? I explained some in my original post. If you mean the CRAs, are you asking about what violations other than not answering the MOV request? Just to recap for the responses to my MOV request:

EQ sent nothing.

EXP sent their generic response that didn't have anything about the collection account that I requested. 

TU sent a notice informing me that they placed another temp 90 day fraud alert on my reports, which I didn't ask for. 

 

I've only had one person tell me that I can't proceed with EQ and TU due to not being signed up with them yet and what parts of the process I have to redo.  Are there any other responses to that (not that I don't believe the person, I just like to hear all views on a subject)?

[BV80]

@NewBeginning16

Well, what about the hospital and collection agency?  What laws have they violated and how?

[NewBeginning16]

Hospital: Violated AB774 (California law) by reporting the debt to their collection agency. I was not covered at the time and let them know that. I have letters from the collection agency stating that I did tell them in the hospital. They (and/or their collection agency) are unable to report the debt for 150 days just for that alone.  I also attempted several times to inform them that I should have been covered and attempted to negotiate something with them to handle that until my insurance reviewed everything and paid. They refused to at first, then when I escalated it, flat out ignored me (I sent a letter to their President and CEO CMRRR). That is also a violation spelled out in AB774; that if the patient is attempting to negotiate a settlement, that the debt can not be reported. Hospitals are required by law to adhere to AB774 or they can lose their licensing. The hospital also overcharged me (people who are not insured can only be charged a certain amount); they also charged me 4 to 7 times for things they only did once.  

 

Collection agency: Reported the debt as in default the SAME MONTH I WAS IN THE HOSPITAL. The hospital doesn't even generate a bill for at least 4 weeks and it was during the holidays. As I stated above, AB774 is not only for the hospital, but it specifically mentions their collection agency as well. The CA also has reported different things on the different CRAs. They called me once after their received my complaint to the California Attorney General. In their letter to the AG, however, they wove a tapestry of lies, claiming that they sent me dunning letters (which they are in fact notorious for NOT doing) and called me numerous times. They're going to have one hell of a time proving that since I've had the same phone number for many years and there isn't a record from any phone company that is going to show that they called me more than that one time. I am glad that all of their lies are in solid black and white. During that phone call, he refused to state that he was a debt collector and demanding payment without even listening to anything I had to say ( I recorded the phone call). They verified it several times and lied about contacting the hospital because I spoke to their billing department and they straight out told me that they never contacted them, let alone during the dates between my dispute and they day it came back verified. 

I think that covers it. I'll edit this if I re-read it and find that I missed anything. 

ETA: I've been using Credit Karma since before all of this started. Aren't the reports supplied by TU and EQ? Doesn't that cover me for arbitration? I just checked my reports on it and it says the VantageScore 3.0 provided on Jun 04, 2016 by TransUnion. It says the same for Equifax. 

I forgot to mention that the collection agency has my DOFD as the same month as when I received the services. 

Edited June 15, 2016 by NewBeginning16

[Clydesmom]

7 hours ago, NewBeginning16 said:

 

ETA: I've been using Credit Karma since before all of this started. Aren't the reports supplied by TU and EQ? Doesn't that cover me for arbitration? I just checked my reports on it and it says the VantageScore 3.0 provided on Jun 04, 2016 by TransUnion. It says the same for Equifax. 

 

No, Credit Karma is merely an avenue for the credit card and loan people to push their products on you. Using that site in no way obligates the bureaus to arbitrate with you.  You should know that if consumer attorneys have turned you down either you don't have a case or don't have sufficient damages to sue despite your anger and what you believe is proof.

[BV80]

@NewBeginning16

From what I've read "AB" means "Assembly Bill".  You need the actual code.  I believe you're referring to the Hospital Fair Pricing Policies in the Health and Safety Code section 127425.

 

[NewBeginning16]

1 hour ago, Clydesmom said:

No, Credit Karma is merely an avenue for the credit card and loan people to push their products on you. Using that site in no way obligates the bureaus to arbitrate with you.  You should know that if consumer attorneys have turned you down either you don't have a case or don't have sufficient damages to sue despite your anger and what you believe is proof.

I had a legal issue many years ago and called numerous attorneys. No one would take the case. Some said I had no case, others told me what I found out later to be untrue. Thinking I was sunk, I summoned the strength to dial just ONE more number. He answered the phone, listened to me, then told me to come in with my paperwork and speak to him as soon as I could. I took him the paperwork I had and then right in front of me at that first meeting after we talked, he called the other attorney and had him stuttering. He settled that case with ONE phone call and proceeded to represent me for the next 10 years. Many times people can not admit that something is over their head and attempt to make it seem as if it is you that is the problem. If he was still practicing law, I am sure he would have sewn this up by now. 

I'm rather happy that they declined to take my case. Neither asked to meet me in person and neither saw my entire file. It's like a mechanic telling you that there is nothing wrong with your car while only looking under the hood. 

@BV80 The code is  California Health & Safety Code § 127400. I've been referring to it as AB774 for so long that I never use the code. Thanks for pointing that out! I've been dehydrated for the last 2 days and literally just returned from getting an IV at urgent care, so I will be more clear headed now. 

[NewBeginning16]

Update: the hospital is in deep doo doo. They might lose their licensing over this (and other things, of course). I have about 10 more days to wait until the agency dealing with them has to get back to me to see exactly what is going to happen. 

 I am going to file against the CA. I have them cold in black and white. I just want this off my reports ASAP and I don't care how it happens or who initiates it. I have the feeling that they will only delete it once they know their backs are up against the wall. I like waiting until I know I have at least double the amount in violations than what the amount of the debt is so it makes negotiations easier. 

EQ didn't answer because the letter was never delivered. I went to the post office about it yesterday. I am signing up with TU and EQ  online and then doing the MOVs over anyway.

I am initiating arb against EXP this week. I'll spend the rest of the week preparing like you told me to, @BV80

[fisthardcheese]

On 6/15/2016 at 6:48 PM, NewBeginning16 said:

Update: the hospital is in deep doo doo. They might lose their licensing over this (and other things, of course). I have about 10 more days to wait until the agency dealing with them has to get back to me to see exactly what is going to happen. 

 I am going to file against the CA. I have them cold in black and white. I just want this off my reports ASAP and I don't care how it happens or who initiates it. I have the feeling that they will only delete it once they know their backs are up against the wall. I like waiting until I know I have at least double the amount in violations than what the amount of the debt is so it makes negotiations easier. 

EQ didn't answer because the letter was never delivered. I went to the post office about it yesterday. I am signing up with TU and EQ  online and then doing the MOVs over anyway.

I am initiating arb against EXP this week. I'll spend the rest of the week preparing like you told me to, @BV80

Just a note so you know what to expect.  All 3 CRAs have very recently started fighting arbitration claims.  Experian will fight by saying that your arbitration clause does not apply and that their new agreement carves out an exception for FCRA claims.  (However, their agreement specifically says FCRA claims regarding items in your credit reports are not subject to arbitration, it says nothing about the MOV requirement that the FCRA says they must comply with).  Equifax will just completely ignore everything with arbitration and force you to file a federal MTC.  I just had to file a MTC on them in federal court last week due to their complete ignoring of my letters and AAA letters.

Do you have an attorney helping you?  If so, they may deal with the FCRA issues as well for you.