T4Ever Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 I have been a grad student without an income for 3 years now in the state of CA. About 2 years ago, I took out a CareCredit loan of about 8K to pay for medical expenses. The account was used at 2 different medical offices, which I have been unable to pay. I started receiving threats of a lawsuit from Parker Stanbury. Out of desperation, I disputed the CareCredit account with the credit bureaus and the account was deleted. I have since received another letter from the same law firm stating that I disputed the CareCredit account, but am still obligated to pay. One of the doctors is now pursuing payment for 4K (which I don't have) with the assistance of Parker Stanbury. They included the original bill with my signature that I thought had been paid by CareCredit. They have essentially warned me that they will win if taken to court. I am now 120K in student loan debt and have no way of paying this. I have until October to dispute the validity or send payment in full. What next steps should I take in this matter, and what are my legal rights? Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Seaward Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 Are your student loans private or government backed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T4Ever Posted September 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 Thanks for the reply, Harry. Unfortunately, they are government backed. Were you thinking bankruptcy? I don't know if it would be worth it, this CareCredit account and a small credit card for 1K are pretty much all I owe aside from student loans. What do you recommend I do? If they sue me, would that be the next step if I don't respond to this letter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCRP626 Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 For the student loan have you contacted the Dept of Education or their servicer? They have numerous income contingent repayment plans. Even with bankruptcy, federal student loans are hard to discharge. https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/understand/plans https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/deferment-forbearance If you have no idea if $4,000 or $8,000 is correct, consider disputing the bill and try to get itemized records and compare the charges to the medical records. You may want to check with a legal help center, such as listed here- http://healthconsumer.org/index.php?id=partners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T4Ever Posted September 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 I have contacted them, and am getting on an income based repayment plan. Was hoping for advice about the potential lawsuit rather than my student loans... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clydesmom Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 10 hours ago, T4Ever said: I disputed the CareCredit account with the credit bureaus and the account was deleted. That is because most likely they are gearing up to sue you. Creditors have started deleting trade lines prior to suing so that consumers don't have a counter claim in court. They are not required to report only to report accurately if they do. 10 hours ago, T4Ever said: I have since received another letter from the same law firm stating that I disputed the CareCredit account, but am still obligated to pay. This is correct. Even though you disputed the debt which with a fresh debt such as yours is merely a stalling tactic vs. preserving rights, your dispute doesn't mean you don't legally owe it and are obligated to pay. 10 hours ago, T4Ever said: One of the doctors is now pursuing payment for 4K (which I don't have) with the assistance of Parker Stanbury. They included the original bill with my signature that I thought had been paid by CareCredit. You need to start with Care Credit and find out if they rejected this bill for credit coverage. If they did then you owe the provider. I have not used CareCredit but you would also need to look at the terms of use and see if there is any reason/way they can not cover a procedure and the provider has to return the funds which would have resulted in your owing the provider. 10 hours ago, T4Ever said: They have essentially warned me that they will win if taken to court. I am now 120K in student loan debt and have no way of paying this. I have until October to dispute the validity or send payment in full. Go ahead and send a DV letter. That at least buys you 30 days where if they sue before validating you might have an over shadowing counter claim. The problem is you owe more than the counter claim so they may not care. As for winning if they take you to court: pretty much. This is NOT like credit card debt. They have your signature on the financial guarantee for treatment and your medical records. You just received the care within the past year so the SOL is very much alive to sue. There are not really any affirmative defenses to receiving medical care and not paying. 10 hours ago, T4Ever said: What next steps should I take in this matter, and what are my legal rights? Send the DV letter. You have the right to defend the suit if they file it. Based on they type of debt and how recent the default is you don't have any affirmative defenses. Some medical providers have taken a hard line stance with patients who rack up thousands of dollars in medical bills and don't pay and are aggressively pursuing it in court. Tyipcally they will take any small payment but the window to negotiate that was before you defaulted not now that they have hired a law firm. Even settling for less would be possible if you had the amount to pay immediately. As a broke grad student you would have been better off applying for California Medicaid and trying to get care than to get credit when unemployed and default but that ship has sailed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCRP626 Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 Look around the California threads and maybe one of the Ca posters will pop in to assist if this goes to court. California (Health and Safety Code) has billing protections you should research. http://www.needhelppayingbills.com/html/laws_in_california_for_help_wi.html That said, Care Credit (Synchrony) does have JAMS/AAA arbitration and JAMS consumer rules state in California, the arbitration provision may not require the consumer to pay the fees and costs incurred by the opposing party if the consumer does not prevail. https://www.carecredit.com/YourTerms/April2016.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T4Ever Posted September 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 Thank you kindly for the replies and assistance. I totally agree it was an irresponsible decision to get myself in this position. Don't even get me started on my decision to go to grad school. I am really new to this entire process and had to look up what a DV letter even is. It appears you are recommending I ask them to verify my debt. Is there any information I need to include in the letter? Can I send it in regular mail? The documentation (the original bill) they already sent is not considered enough to verify the debt? Due to my status as a licensed intern in CA, I don't want to be tied to any lawsuit, but it sounds like you think they are expecting to proceed. I did research this law firm and it appears to be one of those pre-paid legal services. They don't seem to be the most reputable law firm, and I've already witnessed their sloppiness as the original letter they sent had the wrong doctor's name on the second page (they have since revised the letter and sent a new copy with the correct doctor's name). I was considering risking it by not responding and hoping it would not go beyond letters and threats, but I'm now gathering that this would be an unwise move. What steps would I need to take to prevent a lawsuit? In other words, after I request the DV (which they will probably be able to validate), what next? Should I offer 60% (or another amount) of the 4K to settle (assuming I can come up with it)? I guess that's another thing that confuses me. The doctor that is suing me was already paid by CareCredit, so it must mean that the doctor did have to return the funds. If so, I wonder why the other doctor that accepted CareCredit is not also suing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T4Ever Posted September 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 They are part of Legal Shield and do not even have an office in the city I'm located in, if it makes a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T4Ever Posted September 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 In the validation letter, am I able to request documentation on my account with CareCredit and payment history between CareCredit and the doctor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clydesmom Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 3 hours ago, T4Ever said: It appears you are recommending I ask them to verify my debt. Is there any information I need to include in the letter? Can I send it in regular mail? The documentation (the original bill) they already sent is not considered enough to verify the debt? The original bill is more than enough to satisfy the DV. It still can't hurt to stall for a little time. No fancy wording just simply that you dispute the debt and would like validation becauseS you have documentation that Care Credit paid this bill and suspect you are being double billed. That way they explain what they are billing for. 3 hours ago, T4Ever said: What steps would I need to take to prevent a lawsuit? Settle it or file bankruptcy. 3 hours ago, T4Ever said: Should I offer 60% (or another amount) of the 4K to settle (assuming I can come up with it)? It can't hurt but first make sure you can pay what you offer. 3 hours ago, T4Ever said: The doctor that is suing me was already paid by CareCredit, so it must mean that the doctor did have to return the funds. Or CareCredit ultimately did not approve the charge. Start with the physicians office and tell them that you were certain CareCredit paid the account and what payment are they seeking. Until you know what was paid and what wasn't you are shooting in the dark. 3 hours ago, T4Ever said: They are part of Legal Shield and do not even have an office in the city I'm located in, if it makes a difference. It doesn't make any difference. 2 hours ago, T4Ever said: In the validation letter, am I able to request documentation on my account with CareCredit and payment history between CareCredit and the doctor? Are you able to? Yes. Do they have to comply? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCRP626 Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 @Clydesmom what are your thoughts on medical bill auditing services? It seems like it could be useful when even an itemized list of services provided can look like a foreign language. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/03/sunday-review/the-medical-bill-mystery.html?_r=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clydesmom Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 4 minutes ago, CCRP626 said: @Clydesmom what are your thoughts on medical bill auditing services? It seems like it could be useful when even an itemized list of services provided can look like a foreign language. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/03/sunday-review/the-medical-bill-mystery.html?_r=0 Waste of money. If you cannot decipher your EOB or itemized statement from the provider then you take it to their billing department and ask them to break it down for you. Paying someone to do this for you is like paying for credit repair. While you might have to do some leg work to unravel a few codes, it is worth the time and takes little effort to break down what they stand for and what you were billed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T4Ever Posted September 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 Thank you for the reply. I am positive CareCredit paid two years ago at the time of services. The law office even sent a document showing the balance at $0 with a CareCredit payment. What happened since then, your guess is as good as mine. I will go ahead and request that information be revealed. I mentioned this law office being pre-paid because reading online it seems that the most they do is send letters. That said, they seem to refer out when further legal action is needed. I am not sure if my doctor will go that trouble or not. If I wait it out to see if they actually file a lawsuit, can I still settle and avoid court after a lawsuit is filed? Is it ever advisable to send a letter explaining my financial hardships (I am technically unemployed/in between jobs) and the unlikelihood they will be able to recover all fees? Thanks again for the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCRP626 Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 @Clydesmom it doesn't seem that cut and dry to me. How would a consumer know if the charge is reasonable, if the code is correct or if an internal audit is not biased? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clydesmom Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 11 hours ago, CCRP626 said: @Clydesmom it doesn't seem that cut and dry to me. How would a consumer know if the charge is reasonable, if the code is correct or if an internal audit is not biased? "Reasonable" is a subjective term and doesn't apply. The EOB for insurance would tell a patient what their responsibility is for the care. Absent having a capped contract through insurance the provider is allowed to charge what ever they want and the burden is on the patient to determine what the cost is before getting care, if they think it is "reasonable" and if they are willing to pay that to use that provider. How it reads on the bill once the care is received is irrelevant to whether it is "reasonable" at that point. As for coding: unless you are experienced in coding the average person isn't going to know the code. That is why you have to know what procedure you had done and ASK if this is the right code. If there is no insurance being billed as in the case of the OP then codes are completely irrelevant. Codes are only relevant when billing goes to a third party payer. NO consumer is going to get access to any company medical or otherwise's internal auditing procedures. Biased isn't even the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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