GDayMateAZ

Attempt to collect out of SOL Cr Card Debt - Arizona

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Yesterday, I've a voice message requiring my an attention to "very serious matter".

Oh, here we go again. I decided to go ahead and called them back.

Attorney: Nelson, Cruz and Associates (Dallas, TX)
Client: Hovot Management LLC (Collection Agency)
Creditor: MERVYN'S [Charge Card]
File No: 2016-xxxx
Current Balance: $875.58

I live in Arizona. According my old credit reports (TU, Experian and Equifax), I made the last payment in December 2008.
I am not sure if I have on paper these old 2008 "OK", past-due Mervyn's statements and subsequent collection letters. 
This Collection Account was removed from all my Credit Reports at the End of 2015.

They claimed, that the last payment was made in 2012, after they changed it to 2011.
Looks like, I have a deal with an attempt to re-age an old debt that was long out of SOL.

Nelson & Cruz offered me a settlement 50% with a formal settlement letter.
I've sent them back Cease and Desist letter stating that under ARS 12-548 (Arizona 6 years SOL for Credit cards) expired after 2014
and FCRA 7 years for Debt Reporting expired after 2015.

Exchange was thru email, which I provided them to accelerate communications.

At this point, I am posting this as FYI about various tricky collection techniques to refresh old debts trapping consumers into debt's acknowledgment and making small payments
which would reset SOL.   

P.S. Neither Hovot Management LLC nor Nelson Cruz registered as Collectors with AZ Dept of Financial Institutions.

Also, Google does not show any "Hovot Management LLC" at all.

 

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1 hour ago, GDayMateAZ said:

Attorney: Nelson, Cruz and Associates (Dallas, TX)

I Googled this "firm" and they are NOT attorneys.  They are nothing more than a debt collection agency and if they represented in ANY way they are lawyers you have an FDCPA violation.

This is nothing more than a bottom feeding company that preys on the gullible through fear and intimidation.  MOST of their tactics are illegal and my guess is if you tried to sue them that boiler room operation would disappear faster than a snowball in Miami in August.

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Thank you, Clydesmom.

The next week, I (maybe) will contact "my" FDCPA attorney with a question: if I have a FDCPA case against them for an attempt to collect time-barred debt.

 

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17 minutes ago, GDayMateAZ said:

Thank you, Clydesmom.

The next week, I (maybe) will contact "my" FDCPA attorney with a question: if I have a FDCPA case against them for an attempt to collect time-barred debt.

 

It isn't a violation to collect on a time barred debt.  It is if they did what you stated in the first post.

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On 12/2/2016 at 4:10 PM, Clydesmom said:

It isn't a violation to collect on a time barred debt.  It is if they did what you stated in the first post.

They last week, already after receiving my first C&D notice, they left the same message again on my voice mail, requesting me "contact their office regarding VERY IMPORTANT MATTER". So, I've sent them my second C&D notice. At this time, everything is quiet.

 

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Nelson & Cruz called today again. That guy was screaming without any pause that I must pay. Before hanging up I told him nice some words in Russian which most probably were recorded but without consent.

I already know from this Forum that talking with Debt Collectors on the phone does not make any sense and can only hike up a blood pressure.

"My" FDCPA Lawyer cannot do anything at this point. BTW, her email address is no longer valid.

I am replying to Nelson and Cruz with my third C&D Letter.

Because, as of today, Nelson and Cruz are not licensed as Debt Collectors with Arizona Department of Financial Institutions, I am filing a formal complaint with this AZ Department.

http://www.azdfi.gov/Consumers/Licensees/licenses.asp?list=CA&name=Collection Agencies 

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If they are calling after a C&D and  demanding payment, then you've got a nice FDCPA violation...

Did you send the C&Ds via CMRRR? If not, I would send them a letter referencing the other 2 prior letters. Let them know you filed a complaint with AZDFI and that civil money penalties are far greater than what they allege you owe...

I would sue them ASAP - here is the info. They are organized in Delaware.

 

 

 

 

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I received a suspicious notification from "Nelson, Cruz & Associates" attempting to collect on a non existing debt.  They sent a physical letter to my residence on 06/20/2017 attempting to extort $999.36 for an "outstanding balance unpaid to HSBC HOUSEHOLD BANK".  Like any well informed consumer, I understand that when an allegation like this is presented, you have a right to know: contact info for the original debtor and proof of money owed.  Unbeknownst to this fraudulent entity, I know very well who my creditors are and have always been.  I contacted HSBC Bank myself and they confirmed (as I knew they would) that they have no record of my SSN, name, DOB, account etc.  They also informed me that they do NOT outsource their collections, but instead have a collections department in house.  It was also mentioned that notices from "collections agency" usually reference the original account # for the money owed, as well as complete contact information for the original debtor.  When I spoke to a rep from Nelson, Cruz & Associates, he did not provide any of this information so I could substantiate the claim myself.  Instead,  he tried to negotiate down the debt and commit me to paying it immediately over the phone.  I immediately hung up on him and reported Nelson, Cruz & Associates to the Credit Bureau, Attorney General of Texas, BBB and the Federal Trade Commission.  I attempted to file a police report in Dallas, TX but was unsuccessful as I live in VA.  The only advice I can provide is DON'T pay them a cent.  Contact the State and Federal authorities and place a lock on your SSN because they posses personal information that they are using nefariously.      

 

Update:  Nelson, Cruz and Associates responded to my complaint on the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau website:

"Nelson Cruz & Associates welcome customer complaints in order to do correct research on collectors calls for training and compliance purposes. To address this call that was pulled based on the complaint the collector Randy Ackles did follow companies protocol and standard operating procedures. The debt in question was forwarded to Nelson Cruz & Associates by Hovot Management LLC. Hovot is a debt buying which places collection to Nelson Cruz & Associates. During the call it was explained to consumer that debt had been sold to Hovot Management and they who where collecting for an the original creditor on this account does appear to be HSBC. The consumer has refused and all information verified did match that of consumer. Nelson Cruz & Associates made an attempt to collect and since we where unsuccessful we have since closed this account in our collection department and return to Hovot Management for further review. There was no attempts made to scam or defraud consumer during this call. There was only attempt made to resolve this matter through settlement of outstanding balance of debt. We are no scam but work in an area in which people do not always agree when it comes to paying debt. But again we have closed the account on our end."

If the debt was legitimate, why would they be so hasty to close the account?  My guess is they KNOW I'm onto their fraudulent scheme and I'm not a schmuck.  

nelson cruz and associates.jpg

HSBC Confirmation.jpg

nelson cruz and associates complaints 3.jpg

nelson cruz and associates complaints 2.jpg

nelson cruz and associates complaints 1.jpg

BBB complaint.jpg

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1 hour ago, BaherS said:

 I attempted to file a police report in Dallas, TX but was unsuccessful as I live in VA.

 Contact a consumer rights lawyer to see about suing both Nelson Cruz and Hovot.

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2 hours ago, BaherS said:

If the debt was legitimate, why would they be so hasty to close the account?  

Because the debt is beyond the SOL for suing you and for reporting.  Once you refused to pay they are required to cease collections under the FDCPA.  ALL they can do is what they did:  send you a letter stating "please pay us" and if you refuse they have no other options.

15 minutes ago, Harry Seaward said:

 Contact a consumer rights lawyer to see about suing both Nelson Cruz and Hovot.

Suing for what?  They sent a letter saying "will you pay this?"  and when the consumer refused closed the account.  It isn't a violation.  If they continue collection activities it would be.  While HSBC may no longer have the records it is that old it doesn't mean they weren't transferred in the sale.  If this entity goes away I would let it go.  Based on their repsonse to the CFPB they seem to know the laws and what they are doing.  They are just collecting on accounts that give them no leverage.

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@BaherS

@Harry Seaward

I agree with @Clydesmom.   So far, the debt collector appears to have done nothing wrong.  Simply sending a letter to the wrong person is not, in and of itself, a violation.

I would send a letter stating that I dispute the debt, it's not my debt, and I refuse to pay.  If the law firm attempts to collect again, then definitely get a consumer attorney as @Harry Seaward advised.

To the OP, it should be noted that banks sell accounts to other banks.  Perhaps, at one time, you had a credit card account with another bank that was sold to HSBC.

 

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4 hours ago, Clydesmom said:

Suing for what? 

 

1 hour ago, BV80 said:

  So far, the debt collector appears to have done nothing wrong. 

They lied about the "client", either in the letter or in the phone call.

Given the number of nearly identical complaints, I'm convinced properly conducted discovery would be a goldmine revealing this whole thing as an obvious scam to steal money from ignorant and/or vulnerable people.  For example, I'm guessing they tried to avoid pulling this scam on anyone with names like "Aaron Goodman" and "Sarah Berkowitz".

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10 minutes ago, Harry Seaward said:

 

They lied about the "client", either in the letter or in the phone call.

Given the number of nearly identical complaints, I'm convinced properly conducted discovery would be a goldmine revealing this whole thing as an obvious scam to steal money from ignorant and/or vulnerable people.  For example, I'm guessing they tried to avoid pulling this scam on anyone with names like "Aaron Goodman" and "Sarah Berkowitz".

I see your point, but what if HSBC is a "client" but the law firm just has the wrong consumer?

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6 minutes ago, BV80 said:

I see your point, but what if HSBC is a "client" but the law firm just has the wrong consumer?

Considering the nature and volume of complaints, I doubt this is a case of simple mistake.

As we've seen countless times in recent years, legitimate debt collectors don't often resort to intimidation and abuse. They simply provide documents proving the debt and if the consumer still refuses to pay, they just move forward with a lawsuit. 'Nothing personal but we want our money.'

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6 minutes ago, Harry Seaward said:

Considering the nature and volume of complaints, I doubt this is a case of simple mistake.

As we've seen countless times in recent years, legitimate debt collectors don't often resort to intimidation and abuse. They simply provide documents proving the debt and if the consumer still refuses to pay, they just move forward with a lawsuit. 'Nothing personal but we want our money.'

Well, I still contend that the debt collector has done nothing wrong SO FAR, unless the OP can show otherwise.   But, as you suggested, the OP should contact a consumer attorney.  It couldn't hurt.

 

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13 minutes ago, BV80 said:

Well, I still contend that the debt collector has done nothing wrong SO FAR, unless the OP can show otherwise.   But, as you suggested, the OP should contact a consumer attorney.  It couldn't hurt.

 

I disagree.  In the Cruz collection letter they said the "client" was HSBC with no reference whatsoever to Hovot Management.  The 'least sophisticated' interpretation from the collection letter is that Cruz is asserting that HSBC is the client of Cruz on this debt.  And I was mistaken when earlier I said "phone call".  It was in fact a written response to OP's complaint in which Cruz now says their client is Hovot, and that it "appears" (strange language for a legitimate debt collector) that HSBC is actually the original creditor.  There never was any debt with HSBC.  That's significant.

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28 minutes ago, Harry Seaward said:

I disagree.  In the Cruz collection letter they said the "client" was HSBC with no reference whatsoever to Hovot Management.  The 'least sophisticated' interpretation from the collection letter is that Cruz is asserting that HSBC is the client of Cruz on this debt.  And I was mistaken when earlier I said "phone call".  It was in fact a written response to OP's complaint in which Cruz now says their client is Hovot, and that it "appears" (strange language for a legitimate debt collector) that HSBC is actually the original creditor.  There never was any debt with HSBC.  That's significant.

I understand now.   I missed where the debt was transferred to Hovot.  My mistake.

Good catch, Harry!  In fact, it doesn't matter if the OP ever had an account with HSBC.   Even if the account in question was opened with HSBC, that bank is not the "client".

Note that the FDCPA's definition of "consumer" is as follows:

1692a(3):

The term “consumer” means any natural person obligated or allegedly obligated to pay any debt.

Even if the OP did not open the account in question, the law firm has alleged that the OP owes the debt.

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IMG_1372.thumb.PNG.b7f5cad1ea432104e957b709588d381c.PNGI did fail to mention I also called HSBC and provided my SSN for complete verification of my identity.  They told me the same thing over the phone, no record whatsoever, which I knew to be true.  I only provided in this forum what I could prove in writing.

I reject the opinion that they did nothing wrong, I also reject that they made a simple error.  There is a dubious pattern of behavior from this"company" that anyone can uncover with a simple internet search.  I am an informed consumer.  I know who my debtors are, I know what I owe.  I simply posted this as a warning for those that may be more naive.  I do believe "companies" such as NCA prey on the elderly, immigrants or simply unseasoned consumers.  They wagered, due to the amount of time they claimed lapsed since the "debt" was due, that I would be forgetful.  Not the case.  They messed with the wrong person.  I would LOVE to see it hit my credit, which it never has and never will bc it's a scam.  

This is my experience.  Take it for what you will, but beware.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Precisely the conclusion you all came to! They intentionally use confusing language to scam the consumer.  Everything they said to me didn't add up, I'm just satisfied I have it all in writing.

It's very brazen that they attempted to scam me via USPS though.  That is what astounded me.

When I originally spoke to a rep at NCA - Randy Ackles - he refused to give me contact information for the creditor to verify the initial debt.  Just didn't smell right at all!

As judge Judy would say, "if it doesn't make sense, it isn't true."

 

 

 

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On 7/25/2017 at 4:34 PM, Harry Seaward said:

I disagree.  In the Cruz collection letter they said the "client" was HSBC with no reference whatsoever to Hovot Management.  The 'least sophisticated' interpretation from the collection letter is that Cruz is asserting that HSBC is the client of Cruz on this debt.  And I was mistaken when earlier I said "phone call".  It was in fact a written response to OP's complaint in which Cruz now says their client is Hovot, and that it "appears" (strange language for a legitimate debt collector) that HSBC is actually the original creditor.  There never was any debt with HSBC.  That's significant.

I can't like this response enough.  Precisely! Thank you for your attention to detail.

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