he_who_is_poor

PRA lawsuit, served, 2 weeks court date can I do anything?

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Boom!

Judge: Do you still owe this debt? (After seeing others asked same question, head down nodding in agreement)

Me: I deny, request arbitration.

Moved to March vs. end of January

 

Waiting to talk to attorney.

Attorney talk:

What is the actual argument? Do you need more statements? I can get 12 months of statements. Also brought up that I tried to pay a few weeks ago. This part kind of sucks (they do have my bank account info).

 

I stuttered a little bit thinking what are my arguments but I used the "unsure of amount" and "ownership" (not a buying contract) and mentioned that I had invested time into it already used the word Jams haha... Also printed out copy of the card agreement where I referenced the arbitration component.

He again iterated "trying to figure out what to do to get to a resolution" but I just said pretty much "I don't know what else to say I will continue with filing MTC".

I did say that I hadn't filed it yet not sure if that was bad. 

But ...

No garnishment, got myself two more months of time.

So thank you all for getting this far.

 

It will be funny if the arbitration stuff costs me more time/money in the long run.

Today is a good day, caught the bus back, sun is shining, took a couple pictures of the "city scape".

The funny thing is I don't have the date 100%. I was so anxious/scared when I was in there. The room was old looking and lots of wood. The attorneys were mostly older dudes with white hair.

It was funny this tall fit blonde girl walks in there and she turns out to be the judge haha.

This is my manic sleep deprived state but wow. I hope I did the right things.

The dude(attorney) was nice but he had an agenda like everyone else.

 

This was a good experience.

Quite a few people had the gavel slammed so to speak (default stamp) I'm assuming due to not showing up.

 

Damn. 5 words. "I deny. I request arbitration".

 

I almost didn't catch the bus (failure defeatist mindset) but still tried and I got on. I only wish I could keep this optimistic mindset.

 

 

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Ahh man can't get over it.

 

One by one people accepting it, eating it, first guy to say "Deny request arbitration" done. Walked out into hall.

 

Edit: yeah now the question is what is my argument? I could have sworn he mentioned half the cost. Unless I read that somewhere.

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You don't need an "argument".  That is what I was saying to you in my last post.  The attorney was trying to fool you into agreeing (not denying) and tripping you up into admiting and paying them.  The only "argument" is that they put arb into your agreement and you want to use it.  Done.  Now you need to work on and file the MTC.

Who cares if you called to ask about a payment before.  That would be considered a settlement inquiry, and in no way admits the debt or can be used in court anyway.  Forget all that.  All you need now is to get the court to grant your MTC and then watch PRA drop this and/or settle for $0.

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1 hour ago, fisthardcheese said:

The only "argument" is that they put arb into your agreement and you want to use it.  Done. 

By "they" are you saying that this is in the original card agreement with PayPal or they as in PRA. I think it's the former.

What do you think will happen next? I saw from previous posts/possibly other threads/sites that the attorney will try to contact me to settle before the MTC.

It happened so fast, I said the "deny, request arbitration" and before I knew it, it was stamped and set for March. But I don't know what actually happened, though the judge said to talk to the attorney.

Getting the court to grant my MTC. So I go back to the same place I filed my answer and file the MTC or send the MTC to JAMs? I can refer to other posts.

Regarding that template that you provided, the parts that were referring to cases, is pretty much all of that reference/applies to any instance? These are like the proofs/former cases.

I read through the arbitration part in the contract (the paypal credit card) and it seems to only be concerned about suing between PayPal and Myself. Though it briefly mentions the court/small claims. But again I think it's about them saying I can't sue them (through court?)

From the agreement:

Quote

if the dispute or claim arises from or relates to your Account. However, we will not require you to arbitrate: (1) any individual case in small claims court or your state’s equivalent court, so long as it remains an individual case in that court; or (2) any claim by us that only involves our effort to collect money you owe us. However, if you respond to a collection lawsuit by claiming that we engaged in any wrongdoing, we may require you to arbitrate.

Quote

If you or we elect to arbitrate a claim, the electing party must notify the other party in writing. This notice can be given after the beginning of a lawsuit and can be given in papers filed in the lawsuit

 

I don't get how those sentences apply to PRA.

I mean hey this is great where I'm at right now. I had no clue and I would have just accepted it. I kinda felt bad, but I guess this is what you get for educating yourself/asking others for help. This other guy before me just took it/accepted it. 

I also in the back of my mind feel guilty, but also they have no problem destroying my credit/getting garnishment where I could be homeless (true for my case, no parents to fall back on/savings)

I did the same with Discover before, but I didn't get to the court part I did the stipulated payments over several months paid it back in full.

These numbers are small too, not to me but like it sounded like the ones before me were businesses and they were in the thousands/tens of thousands, one guy said bankruptcy.

Should I be concerned that they have my routing/account numbers to my primary bank account?

Anyway I have a lot of reading to do, if the time frame/deadline is March I should have it filed by February (latest) though I should be proactive and get it done in January or what? Gotta go read again. Many threads similar to mine.

thanks again

edit: sorry I know I am really verbose.

@Harry Seaward answered this in the first post.

Quote

 PRA has to pay your fees as well as their own, and there is no small claims exception.

 

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Again,  you are over complicating this in your mind.

Your preliminary hearing you had today was simply a scheduling hearing like I previously said.  Anyone who showed up and denied the allegations were going to get a new court date set.  The judge said to talk to the attorney because they have a system to badger and scare people into a settlement which then clears the court docket making less work for the judge and the court staff.  That isn't your concern.  Your only concern is to get the MTC granted by the court on or before your next court date.

You must adapt the MTC I posted to the facts of your case.  In your case, you haven't sent a letter asking for arb, so eliminate #2 and renumber the rest.  No one here is going to do the work word-for-word for you, so you need to read the MTC and find similar language in your agreement for section number 4.  You do not need to use all of the subsections, only enough to convey that your agreement allows for arbitration.  It can even be one sentence.

PRA has stated that they bought your paypal account.  Therefore, they are now the holder of this card agreement.  Any time you read "paypal" in the card agreement, it now applies and should be replaced with "PRA" in your mind.  When they buy a contract, they "step into the shoes" of the OC.

Type up your own MTC and post it here with personal info redacted and we will give you suggestions on it.  Once you have a good copy ready to file, you take it to the court and file it just like you did with the answer.  You also bring 2 other copies and ask the court to stamp them. Keep one yourself and mail one to the PRA attorney.

After that, you wait to see how they respond.  PRA may file an opposition to your MTC.  If they do, post it and we can help you file a response to that.  If they don't, the court could just grant your MTC or they may sit on it until your next court date at which time you simply ask the judge to hear your pending motion to compel before getting into any merits of the case.

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3 hours ago, fisthardcheese said:

You don't need an "argument".  That is what I was saying to you in my last post.  The attorney was trying to fool you into agreeing (not denying) and tripping you up into admiting and paying them.  The only "argument" is that they put arb into your agreement and you want to use it.  Done.  Now you need to work on and file the MTC.

I've been thinking about this stage, lately. Might it help if we came up with a standard "speech" to give the lawyer in the hall?

Something like: "Are you new at this? My right to arbitration is guaranteed by your contract, state and federal law. It is a matter of public record that your client will not arbitrate and will instruct your office to dismiss the case. In the interest of everybody's time and effort, would you like to just dismiss today?"

Sometimes I wonder if these lawyers aren't lying, so much as being naive. We had mediation with a kid, once, and he seemed so "gung-ho" about saving Western Civilization -  he saw a Midland lawsuit as last line of defense before every person and company on Earth would simply stop paying their bills. On the flip side, I know a retired collections attorney who said he advised colleagues to fold and move on as soon as someone mentioned arbitration. Every second they spend on it is wasted.

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19 minutes ago, Goody_Ouchless said:

I've been thinking about this stage, lately. Might it help if we came up with a standard "speech" to give the lawyer in the hall?

Something like: "Are you new at this? My right to arbitration is guaranteed by your contract, state and federal law. It is a matter of public record that your client will not arbitrate and will instruct your office to dismiss the case. In the interest of everybody's time and effort, would you like to just dismiss today?"

Sometimes I wonder if these lawyers aren't lying, so much as being naive. We had mediation with a kid, once, and he seemed so "gung-ho" about saving Western Civilization -  he saw a Midland lawsuit as last line of defense before every person and company on Earth would simply stop paying their bills. On the flip side, I know a retired collections attorney who said he advised colleagues to fold and move on as soon as someone mentioned arbitration. Every second they spend on it is wasted.

I think that is too strong, IMO.  I would never tip my hat that I know their client will fold.  Also, keep in mind this is prior to the MTC being granted, which is when the power shifts.  Until then they still have a slight upper hand.  I would just play dumb, but continue to insist that I want arbitration.  Once the MTC is granted, that's when I flip the switch and start my power play on them and ask why they are being naive. :)

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10 hours ago, fisthardcheese said:

Your only concern is to get the MTC granted by the court on or before your next court date.

This means having a good reason as to why a motion to compel an arbitration is necessary to the judge's eyes.

I could feel the attorney's frustration saying "But what is there to argue/contest?" saying "resolution" a couple of times.

But I am wondering, as you said "there is no argument" so my reason to arbitrate is the fact that I can since it's in the contract, but what am I arbitrating? The merits of the case.

Good point about them buying the contract and now I should treat them as PayPal regarding the agreement. So the part about them paying the fees, yeah I see it.

Quote

only enough to convey that your agreement allows for arbitration

I understand. Sorry about the "please spoon feed me the answers" moment. I at least have time now so I will be able to go obsess some more and scour the forums to come up with a draft for the MTC.

Quote

Once you have a good copy ready to file, you take it to the court and file it just like you did with the answer.  You also bring 2 other copies and ask the court to stamp them. Keep one yourself and mail one to the PRA attorney.

...ask the judge to hear your pending motion to compel before getting into any merits of the case.

Yeah the attorney said he could get 12 months of statements. I'm still not sure what my arguments are (what is to be arbitrated). But I get the point of making this a hassle/not worth it to PRA's eyes to dismiss it.

Quote

this is prior to the MTC being granted, which is when the power shifts.  Until then they still have a slight upper hand.

Okay I should get this done as soon as possible right? Despite having till March. I'm not sure if doing this quickly before the PRA attorney has a chance to come up with something to counter/dispel my MTC claim.

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7 minutes ago, he_who_is_poor said:

This means having a good reason as to why a motion to compel an arbitration is necessary to the judge's eyes.

It's not a matter of whether or not the judge thinks it's necessary.

It's in the agreement, and the Federal Arbitration Act says if a valid agreement to arbitrate exists and the issue (claim) is arbitrable, then the court shall refer the matter to arbitration.

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17 minutes ago, BV80 said:

It's not a matter of whether or not the judge thinks it's necessary.

It's in the agreement, and the Federal Arbitration Act says if a valid agreement to arbitrate exists and the issue (claim) is arbitrable, then the court shall refer the matter to arbitration.

Okay I understand. I mean is the aim that this won't proceed farther than the granting/bluff. When it comes time to an actual arbitration what is to be contested/arbitrated.

Yeah the agreement does say neither court/nor jury will settle the arbitration.

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4 hours ago, he_who_is_poor said:

Okay I understand. I mean is the aim that this won't proceed farther than the granting/bluff. When it comes time to an actual arbitration what is to be contested/arbitrated.

Yeah the agreement does say neither court/nor jury will settle the arbitration.

You need to read more about arbitration.  Read the numerous threads here where others have used the MTC method in court.

I've said it at least twice in this very thread now....  Your only "argument" is that you want this case moved to private arbitration per the card agreement.  Period.  That's all the judge is concerned with.  Arbitration is a completely different entity that court.  AFTER the court grants your MTC, then you file a case in arbitration.  Ideally, you will file what is essentially a "lawsuit", but in arbitration AGAINST the JDB.  You file claims against them as if you are the one suing them.  It is up to THEM to bring up the debt.  Until they file a counter claim in arbitration, anything they allege about a debt is moot (after a granted MTC).  Do you see how this flips the roles?

Everything about the alleged debt should be dealt with ONLY in arbitration.  Therefore, you need to stop attempting to litigate the debt matter and ONLY start dealing with the MTC.

All of your questions are answered in the sample MTC I posted.  Your "arguments" for why you want arbitration are right there in that sample.  You want it because 1. The contract allows it. 2. it is your right. 3. The supreme court of the USA says that it is your right if it is in your contract and you want it.  Case closed.

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26 minutes ago, fisthardcheese said:
 

You need to read more about arbitration.  Read the numerous threads here where others have used the MTC method in court.

I've said it at least twice in this very thread now....  Your only "argument" is that you want this case moved to private arbitration per the card agreement.  Period.  That's all the judge is concerned with.  Arbitration is a completely different entity that court.  AFTER the court grants your MTC, then you file a case in arbitration.  Ideally, you will file what is essentially a "lawsuit", but in arbitration AGAINST the JDB.  You file claims against them as if you are the one suing them.  It is up to THEM to bring up the debt.  Until they file a counter claim in arbitration, anything they allege about a debt is moot (after a granted MTC).  Do you see how this flips the roles?

Everything about the alleged debt should be dealt with ONLY in arbitration.  Therefore, you need to stop attempting to litigate the debt matter and ONLY start dealing with the MTC.

All of your questions are answered in the sample MTC I posted.  Your "arguments" for why you want arbitration are right there in that sample.  You want it because 1. The contract allows it. 2. it is your right. 3. The supreme court of the USA says that it is your right if it is in your contract and you want it.  Case closed.

Okay. I will return with a draft of the MTC that I come up with then. Thanks for further re-iterating. I've got time on my side at this point to go read up on the MTC method. Sounds pretty straight forward.

edit: the part about good faith/bad faith does that matter? I don't know if I have a bias if I'm just requesting this because I'm allowed to according to the contract/supreme court. This is regarding "treat PayPal as PRA" and in the card agreement it says they will pay for the arbitration fees but I think there is a part about "if you're acting in good faith"

^ I realize this is after the MTC is awarded and currently my focus is to get the MTC by writing/filing one with the court. Which all they're concerned about is that it's in the contract, I'm allowed to use it by right.

Quote

Upon your request, we will normally pay all the fees the administrator or arbitrator charges, if we believe you are acting in good faith. We will always pay these arbitration costs, as well as your legal fees and costs, to the extent required under applicable law or in order for this Provision to be enforced.

 

Quote

I've said it at least twice in this very thread now....

Yeah I'm a brick, sorry(meaningless to say) I will do my own part now. I think I understand it all at this point. I'll work on the MTC and get it filed this month.

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16 hours ago, he_who_is_poor said:

 

Okay. I will return with a draft of the MTC that I come up with then. Thanks for further re-iterating. I've got time on my side at this point to go read up on the MTC method. Sounds pretty straight forward.

edit: the part about good faith/bad faith does that matter? I don't know if I have a bias if I'm just requesting this because I'm allowed to according to the contract/supreme court. This is regarding "treat PayPal as PRA" and in the card agreement it says they will pay for the arbitration fees but I think there is a part about "if you're acting in good faith"

^ I realize this is after the MTC is awarded and currently my focus is to get the MTC by writing/filing one with the court. Which all they're concerned about is that it's in the contract, I'm allowed to use it by right.

 

Yeah I'm a brick, sorry(meaningless to say) I will do my own part now. I think I understand it all at this point. I'll work on the MTC and get it filed this month.

Just do it.  Don't overthink it.  But even presidents, generals and CEOs have "overthought" situations.

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I'm finally getting my draft done, no excuses. When the "threat" is removed (moved back a couple months) you kind of lose a sense of urgency.

I should note, my attempt to prevent my initial un-stamped (not filed) answer ended up still getting mailed to the attorney (oops). edit: actually I received it today, weird on 1/18

I've modified the template provided by @fisthardcheese though upon closer inspection this sentence partially concerns me but I'm pretty sure again "Can arbitrate, no argument"

Quote

...MOST DISPUTES BETWEEN YOU AND US WILL BE SUBJECT TO INDIVIDUAL ARBITRATION.

Key word being MOST, and then there was something else about "If neither AAA nor JAMs will settle this matter... court"

Actually the line after that I think is what is to be used:

Quote

Upon demand, and except as otherwise provided below, you and we must arbitrate individually

I'm not sure if I should remove these questionable words (not a good idea?) words being "most" and "except otherwise" but I think the except otherwise regards the "class action against us" I don't know.

Not sure if I can truncate sentences or not. A closer look at this statement has me concerned, like I don't understand this statement:

Quote

YOU AGREE NOT TO PARTICIPATE IN A CLASS, REPRESENTATIVE OR PRIVATE ATTORNEY GENERAL ACTION AGAINST US IN COURT OR ARBITRATION.

Another thing is:

Quote

However, we will not require you to arbitrate: (1) any individual case in small claims court or your state’s equivalent court, so long as it remains an individual case in that court; or (2) any claim by us that only involves our effort to collect money you owe us. However, if you respond to a collection lawsuit by claiming that we engaged in any wrongdoing, we may require you to arbitrate.

This is an "individual" small claims right? 

At any rate, draft below, thanks for any help. I'm not sure how many of the sample cases to include but the ATT one is mentioned both by here and debtorboards.

Link to the agreement, can't seem to find one from 2015, arbitration part is in page 5/6

Quote

MOTION TO COMPEL PRIVATE/CONTRACTUAL ARBITRATION AND TO STAY PROCEEDINGS PENDING ARBITRATION

 

NOW COMES Defendant, appearing Pro Se for its Motion to Compel Private Contractual Arbitration and as grounds thereto states the following:

 

1)      That on Nov 20, 2017, Plaintiff filed its Complaint against Defendant.

 

2)      Defendant moves this court to compel binding Private Arbitration based on the terms and conditions of the Credit Card Agreement (see Exhibit A, attached).

 

 

3)      The parties are bound by the Credit Card Agreement. The Arbitration Agreement states among other things:

a)       UPON DEMAND, AND EXCEPT AS OTHERWISE PROVIDED BELOW, YOU AND WE MUST ARBITRATE INDIVIDUALLY ANY DISPUTE OR CLAIM BETWEEN YOU, ANY JOINT CARDHOLDER AND/OR ANY ADDITIONAL CARDHOLDER, ON THE ONE HAND; (this is not the full statement)

b- NEITHER A COURT NOR A JURY WILL RESOLVE ANY SUCH DISPUTE 

c)       THIS PROVISION IS GOVERNED BY THE FEDERAL ARBITRATION ACT

 

4)      The Federal Arbitration Act (FAA) 9 USC, Section 2 provides:

Validity, irrevocability, and enforcement of agreements to arbitrate

A written provision in any maritime transaction or a contract evidencing a transaction involving commerce to settle by arbitration a controversy thereafter arising out of such contract or transaction, or the refusal to perform the whole or any part thereof, or an agreement in writing to submit to arbitration an existing controversy arising out of such a contract, transaction, or refusal, shall be valid, irrevocable, and enforceable, save upon such grounds as exist at law or in equity for the revocation of any contract.

(July 30, 1947, ch. 392, 61 Stat. 670.)

 

5)      The Supreme Court Ruling, decided in April 27, 2011, AT&T MOBILITY LLC v. VINCENT CONCEPCION et ux.

We have described this provision as reflecting both a “liberal federal policy favoring arbitration,” Moses H. Cone supra, at 24, and the “fundamental principle that arbitration is a matter of contract,” Rent-A-Center, West, Inc. v.Jackson , 561 U. S. ____ , ____ (2010) (slip op., at 3). In line with these principles, courts must place arbitration agreements on an equal footing with other contracts, Buckeye Check Cashing, Inc. v. Cardegna 546 U. S. 440443 (2006) , and enforce them according to their terms, Volt Information Sciences, Inc. v. Board of Trustees of Leland Stanford Junior Univ. 489 U. S. 468478 (1989) .

 

6)      The defendant elects arbitration to settle this dispute.

 

WHEREFORE, Defendant moves his Honorable Court to compel private contractual arbitration to pursuant to the Card Member Agreement and to stay proceedings pending contractual arbitration.
 

Respectfully submitted this day , 2018

 

My Name, Defendant, pro se

 

Full statement (partially mentioned above)

Quote

Upon demand, and except as otherwise provided below, you and we must arbitrate individually any dispute or claim between you, any joint cardholder and/or any additional cardholder, on the one hand; and us, our affiliates, agents and/or PayPal, Inc., on the other hand, if the dispute or claim arises from or relates to your Account. However, we will not require you to arbitrate: (1) any individual case in small claims court or your state’s equivalent court, so long as it remains an individual case in that court; or (2) any claim by us that only involves our effort to collect money you owe us. However, if you respond to a collection lawsuit by claiming that we engaged in any wrongdoing, we may require you to arbitrate.

 

I'm not sure when to say the part about "settle for $0 dismissal with prejudice" (or is it without prejudice)

 

Sources for the FAA and AT&T Concepcion, Cornell got dem links

FAA Section 2

AT&T v. VINCENT CONCEPCION

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Ahh man, kind of sucks how far away the court date is. Does it matter if I file this now or then? Don't I have to wait for the court to hopefully grant the MTC?

Well, I'll scour the forums again, fisthard already said what to do. I'll just compare against other people's MTCs and then submit it by this month probably next week.

What doesn't suck is I'm not out close to $900 or worse, the $1000+ with garnishment so it's a good outcome regardless.

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You are over thinking it.  This motion is fine, with just one change I suggest below.  I would finish out the sentence you quoted and not leave it as just a partial sentence.  The contract makes it clear that arbitration is a valid course of action.  File this as soon as you can and just wait for them to file their opposition and see what it says.  Then you can move from there.

 

MOTION TO COMPEL PRIVATE/CONTRACTUAL ARBITRATION AND TO STAY PROCEEDINGS PENDING ARBITRATION

 

NOW COMES Defendant, appearing Pro Se for its Motion to Compel Private Contractual Arbitration and as grounds thereto states the following:

 

1)      That on Nov 20, 2017, Plaintiff filed its Complaint against Defendant.

 

2)      Defendant moves this court to compel binding Private Arbitration based on the terms and conditions of the Credit Card Agreement (see Exhibit A, attached).

 

 

3)      The parties are bound by the Credit Card Agreement. The Arbitration Agreement states among other things:

a)       UPON DEMAND, AND EXCEPT AS OTHERWISE PROVIDED BELOW, YOU AND WE MUST ARBITRATE INDIVIDUALLY ANY DISPUTE OR CLAIM BETWEEN YOU, ANY JOINT CARDHOLDER AND/OR ANY ADDITIONAL CARDHOLDER, ON THE ONE HAND; (this is not the full statement)  and us, our affiliates, agents and/or PayPal, Inc., on the other hand, if the dispute or claim arises from or relates to your Account.

b- NEITHER A COURT NOR A JURY WILL RESOLVE ANY SUCH DISPUTE 

c)       THIS PROVISION IS GOVERNED BY THE FEDERAL ARBITRATION ACT

 

4)      The Federal Arbitration Act (FAA) 9 USC, Section 2 provides:

Validity, irrevocability, and enforcement of agreements to arbitrate

A written provision in any maritime transaction or a contract evidencing a transaction involving commerce to settle by arbitration a controversy thereafter arising out of such contract or transaction, or the refusal to perform the whole or any part thereof, or an agreement in writing to submit to arbitration an existing controversy arising out of such a contract, transaction, or refusal, shall be valid, irrevocable, and enforceable, save upon such grounds as exist at law or in equity for the revocation of any contract.

(July 30, 1947, ch. 392, 61 Stat. 670.)

 

5)      The Supreme Court Ruling, decided in April 27, 2011, AT&T MOBILITY LLC v. VINCENT CONCEPCION et ux.

We have described this provision as reflecting both a “liberal federal policy favoring arbitration,” Moses H. Cone supra, at 24, and the “fundamental principle that arbitration is a matter of contract,” Rent-A-Center, West, Inc. v.Jackson , 561 U. S. ____ , ____ (2010) (slip op., at 3). In line with these principles, courts must place arbitration agreements on an equal footing with other contracts, Buckeye Check Cashing, Inc. v. Cardegna 546 U. S. 440443 (2006) , and enforce them according to their terms, Volt Information Sciences, Inc. v. Board of Trustees of Leland Stanford Junior Univ. 489 U. S. 468478 (1989) .

 

6)      The defendant elects arbitration to settle this dispute.

 

WHEREFORE, Defendant moves his Honorable Court to compel private contractual arbitration to pursuant to the Card Member Agreement and to stay proceedings pending contractual arbitration.
 

Respectfully submitted this day , 2018

 

My Name, Defendant, pro se

 

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4 hours ago, fisthardcheese said:

You are over thinking it.  This motion is fine, with just one change I suggest below.  I would finish out the sentence you quoted and not leave it as just a partial sentence.  The contract makes it clear that arbitration is a valid course of action.  File this as soon as you can and just wait for them to file their opposition and see what it says.  Then you can move from there.

Thanks a lot. I will get it filed this Monday/Tuesday (which ever day I'm off first).

I don't need to start JAMs right away or wait for the opposition first then file for JAMs?

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21 hours ago, fisthardcheese said:

I don't do anything with JAMS until the court grants the MTC.

Okay got it. I will get this filed and mailed out beginning of this week then. Thanks a lot for your time and help so far.

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Well today has been a real cluster F of a day.

I don't know how I missed the fact that I needed the header piece (the plaintiff vs. defendant). I'm also not sure if I should have had a certificate of service (signed) on the last page. I would laugh if I threw all of this progress away because of today(mistakes in formatting making it invalid). Though to be fair to myself somewhat, even before I had to stay up to get this filed/mailed out, with a clear mind, I did not consider needing the header/certificate of service.

I also am not sure if I was supposed to include a copy of the credit card agreement (I did)

Luckily they had computers and printers available so I was able to recreate a header and get it filed. It is an ordeal for me to get here so I was like "No way am I coming back here"

Anyway I don't know. I created the header but left the bottom part blank. As I figured tbe second page with the MTC header would have been redundant.

I also don't know if I was supposed to sign it?

The examples I looked at didn't have it just typed name.

I also don't know if the fact that my name is different matters though it is a legal name.

The name I used is the same one used in the answer.

I'm also unsure if I should be concerned that the source for the card agreement is now a 404 page.

Ugh... I almost lost my temper on the lady though she was right. I don't know what was going through my mind. How did I completely miss that like duh who is this against?

Every time I go on the bus down town, I just forget how lucky/sheltered my life is despite my own mental short comings.

 

edit: at the very least, I will document my entire experience and somebody else can learn from it.

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9 hours ago, he_who_is_poor said:

Well today has been a real cluster F of a day.

I don't know how I missed the fact that I needed the header piece (the plaintiff vs. defendant). I'm also not sure if I should have had a certificate of service (signed) on the last page. I would laugh if I threw all of this progress away because of today(mistakes in formatting making it invalid). Though to be fair to myself somewhat, even before I had to stay up to get this filed/mailed out, with a clear mind, I did not consider needing the header/certificate of service.

I also am not sure if I was supposed to include a copy of the credit card agreement (I did)

Luckily they had computers and printers available so I was able to recreate a header and get it filed. It is an ordeal for me to get here so I was like "No way am I coming back here"

Anyway I don't know. I created the header but left the bottom part blank. As I figured tbe second page with the MTC header would have been redundant.

I also don't know if I was supposed to sign it?

The examples I looked at didn't have it just typed name.

I also don't know if the fact that my name is different matters though it is a legal name.

The name I used is the same one used in the answer.

I'm also unsure if I should be concerned that the source for the card agreement is now a 404 page.

Ugh... I almost lost my temper on the lady though she was right. I don't know what was going through my mind. How did I completely miss that like duh who is this against?

Every time I go on the bus down town, I just forget how lucky/sheltered my life is despite my own mental short comings.

 

edit: at the very least, I will document my entire experience and somebody else can learn from it.

You must always know your court rulers for formatting and filing motions.  That is 101 when you deal with court.  Yes, you probably should have a certificate of service.  If you did not include one, you should probably at least send the PRA copy to the attorney certified so you have proof you served them a copy.

The sample I provided refered to "Exhibit A" as the card agreement, so it needed to be submitted with the MTC as Exhibit A.

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1 hour ago, fisthardcheese said:

You must always know your court rulers for formatting and filing motions.  That is 101 when you deal with court.  Yes, you probably should have a certificate of service.  If you did not include one, you should probably at least send the PRA copy to the attorney certified so you have proof you served them a copy.

The sample I provided refered to "Exhibit A" as the card agreement, so it needed to be submitted with the MTC as Exhibit A.

Yeah, I guess when I searched for MTC templates, I didn't see the header's attached to them. Was under the impression the headers were only for the answers. But it makes sense, without that, there is no context.

I'm also not sure if it was bad that in the MTC I did not address PRA directly in it.

I did send it CMRRR, but literally the first page, is just the header block itself plaintiff vs. defendant with parenthesis dividers and then nothing under it, but stapled to this is the 2-page MTC and the credit card agreement itself. I did change the "Exhibit A" to say "Attached, Pg. 5/6"

Useless could have thought: At the time when she told me (helping me) that I needed this header thing, I was agitated like "I came all this way..." and I was lucky to find a computer and a printer but all I did was type the header, as I had the original lawsuit copy. Did not have the certificate of service in mind either.

Yeah if I just nailed my own coffin I guess that's on me for being negligent. I don't know I honestly don't know how I spaced out on that. Not the lack of sleep. Maybe work. I had some good news. Thought the MTC was thoroughly looked into.

At any rate, thanks for the help. It'll suck if I lose by default because of the formatting, but that's on me.

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It is unlikely to lose due to formatting.  Courts will generally cut a pro-se slack on things like this.  It is just wise to be careful and do things right next time.  What matters most is the content of your motion and how you will respond when PRA eventually files their opposition.  You just have to wait and see how they respond now.

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@fisthardcheese

Sorry if it's not cool to directly ping you. I was going to quote you above "how they respond" I'm not sure if by responding to this thread and since you responded in the past if you would have gotten pinged anyway.

I see, I have 15 days to respond to this.

Alright I have an update.

Got this big package from PRA. I'm wondering what the hell is in here. It's like a magazine the way the papers are stacked (thickness/rigidity).

I'm pretty sure I know what's in here. It's a good thing I have savings/tax return... I'm probably about to get opened up like a can.

Two bad things in a row wow. I thought today was a good day. I mean it is, I grew personally.

Okay. I'm going to eat my treat first, then open this envelope of sadness.

"Plaintiff's pretrial questionaire"

This packet is no joke half an inch thick.

It has what appears to be every single record on my credit card. Not every, looks like a couple pages but it's pretty damn accurate/correct.

I'm not sure what points to address, is my coffin sealed?

Interrogatories

"First request for production of documents"

This is probably the point where I'm like "Hmm should I have just settled the $800"

"Exhibit A" haha

This is intense:

Admit that you... Admit that you... Admit that you...

Well what happens now. I'll shift my obsession about this maybe this is a godsend from my current mental sadness from another event.

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