millyann Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 I received a letter from an attorney that she has been retained by a collection agency regarding a balance they claim I owe. I have several points of disagreement with the amount they claim and the collection agency does not want to hear it. The collection agency threatened to sue me by a certain date, instead I got this communication. The validation notice was stapled to the letter. The letter was on official letterhead of the attorney and the validation notice looks like a copy paste stapled to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BV80 Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 @millyann The collection agency threatened to sue you by a certain date? What date? If you don't mind, could you post a redacted copy of the letter from the collection agency? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Seaward Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 They are giving you 30 days to dispute the debt before they sue. Caselaw on overshadowing is all over the map and what they have done is gray enough that I wouldn't count on it yielding any fruit. And they get a bona fide error defense to boot. I'd send a DV and see if they sue before validating. Having said that, you need to understand the most you can expect to 'win' on an FDCPA claim is $1,000. Since what you owe is 3.5x that amount, best case for you is they just agree to knock the $1,000 off your debt and go right on ahead with their lawsuit against you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Seaward Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, BV80 said: The collection agency threatened to sue you by a certain date? What date? The last paragraph said of they don't hear from OP by the date above (July 2) they will file a lawsuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millyann Posted June 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 The collection agency said they would sue me on 5/29/18 The only dunning letter I have received by the CA are in response to my validation request: Attached is one of two letters. One for $500 and another for 3048 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BV80 Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 Just now, Harry Seaward said: The last paragraph said of they don't hear from OP by the date above (July 2) they will file a lawsuit. The OP appeared to distinguish between the collection agency and the letter from the attorney. Note the following quote: Quote The collection agency threatened to sue me by a certain date, instead I got this communication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BV80 Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, millyann said: The collection agency said they would sue me on 5/29/18 The only dunning letter I have received by the CA are in response to my validation request: Attached is one of two letters. One for $500 and another for 3048 What am I missing? Where did they threaten to sue you on 5/29/18? When did you receive the letter from the attorney (not the collection agency)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millyann Posted June 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, Harry Seaward said: They are giving you 30 days to dispute the debt before they sue. Caselaw on overshadowing is all over the map and what they have done is gray enough that I wouldn't count on it yielding any fruit. And they get a bona fide error defense to boot. I'd send a DV and see if they sue before validating. Having said that, you need to understand the most you can expect to 'win' on an FDCPA claim is $1,000. Since what you owe is 3.5x that amount, best case for you is they just agree to knock the $1,000 off your debt and go right on ahead with their lawsuit against you. If they sue they can't win. The real OC is out of business and they have no way to prove the accounting of the debt that will stand up in GA Magistrate Court much less state or superior. Plus we co not owe that much. I did offer to pay the CA the amount we know we owe to settle the claim. The lawyer is not the Collection Agency, separate entities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millyann Posted June 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 Just now, BV80 said: What am I missing? Where did they threaten to sue you on 5/29/18? Via telephone on 5/25 which was recorded. I am in a one party state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millyann Posted June 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, BV80 said: When did you receive the letter from the attorney (not the collection agency)? I received it today via certified mail. 6/2/18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BV80 Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 7 minutes ago, millyann said: Via telephone on 5/25 which was recorded. I am in a one party state. Contact a consumer attorney because that phone call is your proof that they did not intend to sue on that date. In regard to the attorney's letter, I do not seen overshadowing. In terms of the FDCPA, "overshadow" means to contradict or cover up. The letter demands payment by 7/02/2018. You received it on 6/02/2018. That does not overshadow the 30 days you have to request validation. However, ask a consumer about "attorney involvement" in regard to the letter. I'm not sure what the 11th Circuit requires in regard to letters on attorney letterhead. I'll see what I can find, but a GA attorney should know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Seaward Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 9 minutes ago, millyann said: Via telephone on 5/25 which was recorded. I am in a one party state. What exactly did they say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millyann Posted June 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 10 minutes ago, BV80 said: Contact a consumer attorney because that phone call is your proof that they did intend to sue on that date. Here is something else and I may be wrong. The CA is not an assignee and have never held themself to be the owner of the debt. For them, the CA, to sue me or claim that they will is the unauthorized practice of law and a FDCPA violation as they cannot assert a claim in court they do not own. The owner of the debt they claim is another party. 7 minutes ago, Harry Seaward said: What exactly did they say? If I did not pay the full amount they claim I owe that they would file suit on 5/29. That was when I offered them what I thought was the right amount and they basically told me to FOAD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Seaward Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, millyann said: Here is something else and I may be wrong. The CA is not an assignee and have never held themself to be the owner of the debt. For them, the CA, to sue me or claim that they will is the unauthorized practice of law and a FDCPA violation as they cannot assert a claim in court they do not own. The owner of the debt they claim is another party. If I did not pay the full amount they claim I owe that they would file suit on 5/29. If that's actually what they said then it is a violation that they didn't sue on that date. However, I think you underestimate their ability to be able to win a lawsuit against you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BV80 Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 7 minutes ago, millyann said: Here is something else and I may be wrong. The CA is not an assignee and have never held themself to be the owner of the debt. For them, the CA, to sue me or claim that they will is the unauthorized practice of law and a FDCPA violation as they cannot assert a claim in court they do not own. The owner of the debt they claim is another party. If I did not pay the full amount they claim I owe that they would file suit on 5/29. That was when I offered them what I thought was the right amount and they basically told me to FOAD. Again, consult a consumer attorney. Some states allow collection agencies to sue for the creditor for whom they are collecting. Don't dwell on this. Just contact an attorney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millyann Posted June 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 12 hours ago, Harry Seaward said: \However, I think you underestimate their ability to be able to win a lawsuit against you. What do you base that comment on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clydesmom Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 1 hour ago, millyann said: What do you base that comment on? Your situation is based on a legal eviction NOT credit card debt which these sites are based on. They have your application for the unit, lease, and plenty of records. Worse for you they have the eviction. I suspect that because you were already evicted that when the property was sold your account was not one of the since you were no longer a tenant. The new property management company would not want to purchase bad debt from previous tenants. No reason to. The other problem is they have not filed suit yet so you don't know who the actual plaintiff will be until that happens. Only then can you focus on a defense that they lack standing. As for the FDCPA violation in my opinion it is vague at best. NOTHING in the federal law states that they have to sue ON that date and they have a valid defense that you sent validation which shifted the timeline. My educated guess is this yields nothing you can use. Your situation is TOO complicated here for two reasons. First: it is an eviction and involves landlord tenant law as well as collections law. They got a valid legal eviction. The judgment may have only been for the past due rent and the possession of the actual premises. It is possible that under Georgia law they are required to sue you again for the balance that is part of the eviction under state law if they want to levy or garnish wages. Second: based on your multiple posts and lack of clear details and time line I suspect you are withholding key details that would make clearer answers possible because those details would not yield the answers you want. You need an attorney to straighten this out it is way too complicated for the internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Seaward Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 2 hours ago, millyann said: What do you base that comment on? Recent experiences here. While it may not still be the original apartment complex owner/manager, someone owns the debt, and the chances of that entity having the evidence they need to win a judgment are pretty good. Especially if this eviction happened in the last 2-3 years. 1 hour ago, Clydesmom said: NOTHING in the federal law states that they have to sue ON that date False and misleading representations/threatening action they don't intend to take is a violation. If they said they were going to sue on x date, and x date comes and goes, that's a false and misleading misrepresentation. There's a significant amount of on-point caselaw. The issue for OP still remains that her max award would be $1,000 against the debt collector, but the owner of the debt could still get a $3,500 judgment against her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisthardcheese Posted June 4, 2018 Report Share Posted June 4, 2018 13 hours ago, Harry Seaward said: False and misleading representations/threatening action they don't intend to take is a violation. If they said they were going to sue on x date, and x date comes and goes, that's a false and misleading misrepresentation. There's a significant amount of on-point caselaw. The issue for OP still remains that her max award would be $1,000 against the debt collector, but the owner of the debt could still get a $3,500 judgment against her. Unless OP could get an attorney to take that case on for her, which exposes the JDB to not only the $1k to OP but court costs and attorney fees as well which would easily top the $3500 they are after and could end in her favor with a small settlement - maybe no money in her pocket but the $3500 wiped out. While I find it hard to follow all the details over several threads, perhaps OP should call a couple attorneys and see what they think. I would suggest starting with Skaar & Feagle, who are great consumer attorneys in GA, but I'm not sure how much tenant law they really do. But they will talk over the case and any potentials with you on the phone for free. There are other problems with this collectors case too, since OP has said they were not provided a list of damages or expenses within 30 days after move out as required by GA law. If they were not provided a list of costs/damages, then the OC waived their right to those costs and the JDB has no legal right to collect them as far as I can tell. Perhaps something else I would run by an attorney in addition to the FDCPA violation above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Seaward Posted June 4, 2018 Report Share Posted June 4, 2018 4 hours ago, fisthardcheese said: Unless OP could get an attorney to take that case on for her, which exposes the JDB to not only the $1k to OP but court costs and attorney fees as well which would easily top the $3500 they are after and could end in her favor with a small settlement - maybe no money in her pocket but the $3500 wiped out. This only works if the debt collector sues her. There is no leverage against the owner of the debt if they sue her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisthardcheese Posted June 4, 2018 Report Share Posted June 4, 2018 2 hours ago, Harry Seaward said: This only works if the debt collector sues her. There is no leverage against the owner of the debt if they sue her. How so? If an attorney sues or sends an ITS on her behalf and the collector settles, then the settlement will include a mutual release of liability. There would be no debt remaining after that. Why would THEY have to sue to gain a settlement leverage if there are viable violations that OP could potentially sue on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Seaward Posted June 4, 2018 Report Share Posted June 4, 2018 1 hour ago, fisthardcheese said: How so? FDCPA doesn't apply to the owner of the debt. She can only negotiate FDCPA leverage with the debt collector. If the OC sues, they can (and probably will) get the full $3,500 judgment, despite any FDCPA violations committed by the debt collector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clydesmom Posted June 4, 2018 Report Share Posted June 4, 2018 9 hours ago, fisthardcheese said: There are other problems with this collectors case too, since OP has said they were not provided a list of damages or expenses within 30 days after move out as required by GA law. Except they are not required to prove that the OP received it only that they sent it. What odds you want to put on the producing a letter with those damages listed? They went to the legal trouble to evict my guess is they also have proof they attempted to notify the OP of the damages as well. Not to mention that if the OP and her husband never left a forwarding address for that notice to be sent to then the landlord is off the hook under GA landlord tenant law. 13 minutes ago, Harry Seaward said: FDCPA doesn't apply to the owner of the debt. She can only negotiate FDCPA leverage with the debt collector. If the OC sues, they can (and probably will) get the full $3,500 judgment, despite any FDCPA violations committed by the debt collector. In addition it is not uncommon for an OC to dump the CA or attorney who committed the violations and leave them hanging on that so that they have 100% clean hands in their suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisthardcheese Posted June 4, 2018 Report Share Posted June 4, 2018 41 minutes ago, Harry Seaward said: FDCPA doesn't apply to the owner of the debt. She can only negotiate FDCPA leverage with the debt collector. If the OC sues, they can (and probably will) get the full $3,500 judgment, despite any FDCPA violations committed by the debt collector. OP said this was a JDB that bought the debt from the OC. Unless that info changed somewhere, then the FDCPA should apply to leverage the potential debt. Also, if sued, this will likely be in Magistrate court. My experience with Landlord issues in Magistrate is, just like JDBs in cred card cases, when faced with a counter claim they will likely agree to a mutual dismissal. It's a potential tactic to use, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clydesmom Posted June 4, 2018 Report Share Posted June 4, 2018 1 hour ago, fisthardcheese said: OP said this was a JDB that bought the debt from the OC. There is another thread that only mentions a CA and property companies. The property changed hands after the OP was evicted. It is not clear exactly WHO owns the account and likely will not be until a suit is actually filed. My guess is that the property company that got the eviction still owns the debt and when the complex was sold those old accounts were not part of the deal. The OP is giving out details in vague pieces which complicates matters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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