he_who_is_poor

CBCS letter, possibly past SOL, DV necessary?

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First, hello again, thanks for the previous help.

I received a letter from CBCS today, for a debt that I have not touched since it was defaulted on 3+ years ago.

This letter has a matching balance with what I see in Credit Karma however has no other details other than the account name and sum.

It just asks for payment, nothing on percentages along with the 30 days to validate the debt. It was sent almost a week ago.

I've been reading up about this company and from what I've gathered, they don't validate for the most part even when you send them a letter to validate. Which I read on the myths page that they're not as strictly bound to that 30 day as the consumer is if at all.

Anyway, I'm currently unsure if this account is past Kansas's SOL. It it is at least 3 years since the last payment/closed date however I get conflicting times about Kansas's SOL. The majority say 3 years however some sites say 5 for written contract. I have never spoken to CBCS as well.

I'm unsure if I should validate or not, if it goes against me.

And would you look at that:

Quote

MYTH #7 

An initial communication can validate a debt.


I was looking over some letters and noted how carefully worded it was eg. This is not...

Wow, how is it this Myth like pretty much lines up every line in the DV letters you find like the one on this NOC page.

Quote

MYTH #13

A validation letter requesting specific documentation and citing the FDCPA and FCRA will put a debt collector "on notice" that a consumer is serious and knows his rights.

 

Quote

As previously provided, signed contracts, detailed files, and collection agency licenses are not required.

The best validation letter is a simple one.  In your own words, simply state that you dispute the referenced debt and request validation.  Nothing else is required of the consumer under the FDCPA.  (See 1692g(a) and 1692g(b)).  As I previously stated, it's the collection agency's problem if it doesn't know the laws. 

So, it seems the answer is clear... write the validation for the sake of that 30 days on my behalf. I don't think they will have any problem validating this debt but then again, as I mentioned supposedly they don't respond/what is validation anyway?

Quote

*Prove the Statute of Limitations has not expired on this account


Ahh man... there I am biking 150miles a week to save for a car and BOOM. This letter hits me... God... Can't escape your past.

So, DV, wait to possibly get sued? Maybe try to settle? At least I have built up some "credit" I know, is it irony? So I guess I have some sort of a buffer but it still puts me in the red anyway.

Thanks for any help.

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1 hour ago, he_who_is_poor said:

I've been reading up about this company and from what I've gathered, they don't validate for the most part even when you send them a letter to validate. Which I read on the myths page that they're not as strictly bound to that 30 day as the consumer is if at all.

They are not legally required to answer within any time frame.  They ARE required to stop collecting until they do validate.  So if they choose to return it to the original creditor and stop contacting you about payment they are in the clear.  

1 hour ago, he_who_is_poor said:

Anyway, I'm currently unsure if this account is past Kansas's SOL. It it is at least 3 years since the last payment/closed date however I get conflicting times about Kansas's SOL. The majority say 3 years however some sites say 5 for written contract.

What kind of account is this?  If it is a loan that would fall under the written contract SOL of 5 years.  If this is a credit card account then the SOL is 3 years.   When was your last payment?

1 hour ago, he_who_is_poor said:

So, it seems the answer is clear... write the validation for the sake of that 30 days on my behalf. I don't think they will have any problem validating this debt but then again, as I mentioned supposedly they don't respond/what is validation anyway?

You should always send a validation letter to protect your rights.  As for what "validation" is the standard is so low you can trip over it.  All they are required to provide to comply with the law (regardless of what you demand in the letter) is the name/address of the original creditor and the amount they allege you owe.

1 hour ago, he_who_is_poor said:

So, DV, wait to possibly get sued? Maybe try to settle?

Depends on who the original creditor is.  Who is trying to collect and what you want to accomplish.  If it is beyond the SOL you have an affirmative defense if they do sue you.  If they can still sue then settling MIGHT be the best option depending on who the original creditor is.  There isn't enough information for us to advise more specifically as of this point.

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First I should note aside from potentially(hopefully) being past SOL, this debt is legitimate in the sense that I once had this account/failed to pay/defaulted/have not touched it since.

>They ARE required to stop collecting until they do validate.  So if they choose to return it to the original creditor and stop contacting you about payment they are in the clear.

why would they give it back? I'm wondering as well as to what level this is eg. JDB or a Discover type that will sue and win. I don't think I can pull any arbitration on this card though I'm not sure of the "provider" eg. something like synchrony.

This is a credit card. So that's great to hear about the 3Years as it is past SOL but I am concerned about seeing 5 years from other sources.

The OC is USAA I know tragic, I was mooching off the military history of my family and I ruined it.

Regarding the Validation letter I assume/saw in some examples that the main thing I would bring up is "this debt that you allege I owe is beyond SOL". The potential caveat is that I used to live in NY where I opened these accounts. However I read that it is in the state that you are "prosecuted"? That the SOL matters.

Good to hear about the garnishment protection however I would also like/prefer to avoid court at all costs only because I do not do well in that environment as I have demonstrated in the past.

Thanks for your time.

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The letter should clearly state if the account has a different current creditor than USAA. it is my understanding that USAA doesn’t sell debt, can anyone confirm? 

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19 hours ago, Debtguy393939 said:
 

The letter should clearly state if the account has a different current creditor than USAA. it is my understanding that USAA doesn’t sell debt, can anyone confirm? 

I may have said it wrong, the letter is from CBCS and says:

Creditor name: USAA, creditor account #, balance

"Your past due account(s) for the amount shown above were placed with our office for payment"

So am I actually still dealing with USAA? While it's a chunk of change, if I can still get on good terms(laughable) by talking to OC that could be something. But 3 years SOL, my credit score is F'd thankfully my fear of not having a place to live due to that has been solved in the mean time.

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Well Usaa has placed it with them for collection. Usaa still owns the account. This one is tough, if you ever want to get back in with Usaa again you will have to resolve this. They definitely blacklist you if they suffer a loss that hasn’t been resolved, sol or not. To me it would be worth it, their insurance is amazing as well as other products. Your choice though. 

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7 hours ago, Debtguy393939 said:

Well Usaa has placed it with them for collection. Usaa still owns the account. This one is tough, if you ever want to get back in with Usaa again you will have to resolve this. They definitely blacklist you if they suffer a loss that hasn’t been resolved, sol or not. To me it would be worth it, their insurance is amazing as well as other products. Your choice though. 

I know. Generally not my interest to screw people over but when your finances implode... Still overall bad decisions on my part and not understanding money/credit.

Is resolving it still a possibility do you think? I mean it's discharged/so old. I imagine I would have to pay it back in full as well/maybe payment plans. Not sure if interest factors in. I think I had a similar thing happen with Discover where I dealt with a second party but I think it went back to Discover. I paid it back in full over the course of like 2 years.

How would I approach this? Skip CBCS and talk to USAA? I have heard of double payments when you pay the OC instead of the CA.

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I can definitely answer that USAA does NOT sell their accounts. My mother ran her bank card up in the neighborhood of 17k and defaulted. She was sued and got a default judgement. She was able to work out a payment plan with USAA and as of this date, has $200 left to pay off. USAA is willing to work with you regarding payments, but as @Debtguy393939 said, you will be blacklisted until it is resolved.

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9 hours ago, Gasman4571 said:

I can definitely answer that USAA does NOT sell their accounts. My mother ran her bank card up in the neighborhood of 17k and defaulted. She was sued and got a default judgement. She was able to work out a payment plan with USAA and as of this date, has $200 left to pay off. USAA is willing to work with you regarding payments, but as @Debtguy393939 said, you will be blacklisted until it is resolved.

That sucks about the lawsuit. That is a chunk of change too right there. More than I've ever been allowed so far probably a good thing.

I take it she was in the statute of limitations?

The blacklisted thing while it sucks, is not a big deal yet. I'm also financially stuck for a while but it is good to know that I can resolve it.

The concern is if I start talking to them, does that reset the SOL clock where they could then sue me.

Which I'm still wondering do I DV I'm under the impression the answer is still yes. I'm hoping to get that letter sent out by Friday but need to make sure it's right.

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I can't help but wonder if them taking me to court is inevitable regarding SOL. How can I bring up SOL if it "supposedly isn't mine" eg. DV? I get that DV can be legitimate from my perspective in the case of "I've paid it off already or this isn't mine" but there is also the "can you collect on this debt".

I want to avoid court but I guess I have SOL as a defense and if I'm sued out of state then I guess I'm the other SOL.

I'll pick out a good DV and get it written/mailed. Having a 9-5 it's problematic to send mail, will try for lunch or come in late.

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On 8/1/2018 at 12:34 AM, he_who_is_poor said:

I may have said it wrong, the letter is from CBCS and says:

Creditor name: USAA, creditor account #, balance

"Your past due account(s) for the amount shown above were placed with our office for payment"

So am I actually still dealing with USAA? While it's a chunk of change, if I can still get on good terms(laughable) by talking to OC that could be something. But 3 years SOL, my credit score is F'd thankfully my fear of not having a place to live due to that has been solved in the mean time.

Check your credit report.  If  USAA has a TL, an account that has been sold would show one of the following:  "sold", "transferred", or "purchased by another lender".

If it doesn't show one of those and/or if USAA is still updating each month, USAA still owns it. 

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3 hours ago, BV80 said:

Check your credit report.  If  USAA has a TL, an account that has been sold would show one of the following:  "sold", "transferred", or "purchased by another lender".

If it doesn't show one of those and/or if USAA is still updating each month, USAA still owns it. 

I think the letter from CBCS is telling me that USAA owns it. So far on my credit reports(from sites like credit karama/credit wise/etc...) all I've got for USAA is that this debt was charged off as bad debt.

 

Is the point you're making that I should expect to deal with USAA rather than CBCS or the legitimacy of CBCS's involvement with USAA? The balance is also exact from last reported.

It is a bit of money and I don't have it at this time if they expected payment in full. Regarding the "black listing" paying them back in full overtime would be interesting as long as it didn't reset the SOL where I could be suable.

Which I'm still unsure about that some sites say 5 years and many say 3. Some users here say 3.

There is also the possibility of being sued out of state which would suck as I don't live there/can't make it back. That's where this account was active.

Thanks

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1 hour ago, he_who_is_poor said:

Is the point you're making that I should expect to deal with USAA rather than CBCS or the legitimacy of CBCS's involvement with USAA? The balance is also exact from last reported.

You asked if you were actually dealing with USAA.   I thought you might be implying that the debt was sold to a debt buyer.

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8 hours ago, BV80 said:

You asked if you were actually dealing with USAA.   I thought you might be implying that the debt was sold to a debt buyer.

Well I'm not entirely sure. Others have said "USAA does not sell its debt"

This letter says briefly:

"Your past due account(s) for the amount shown above were placed with our office for payment.

So I'm not sure if this is like Discover where they hire someone to go after you but you pay the second party and it goes back to Discover.

Even if this debt is valid, SOL would just protect me from a judgment but won't stop their attempts to collects on it right?

The statement "If you notify this office in writing in 30 days after receiving this notice that you dispute the validity of this debt, or any portion of it, this office will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment and mail you a copy of such verification or judgment "

I'm just curious what stops them from sending me some "judgment" that may not be real. I know this sounds like a conspiracy question. I would hopefully be able to disprove it provided I can find it online/the court info.

I know hopefully that has not/will not happen. And then I have to tread/go about this lightly. How do you bring up past SOL if you're validating the debt. Or is that part of my debt validation letter to say "You can't collect on this debt." I don't think that's true.

edit: I do want to add, paying this back is something I would consider if I can convince them not to sue me(this kind of agreement I entered when dealing with Discover(prior to finding out forums to get help from like here) so paying in chunks eg. monthly. I think the type of agreement I was in was if I failed to make a payment I was automatically sued or something I don't know, it's not great but assuming a stable life and not too big of payments doable.

I'm gonna go find some DV samples.

edit: is it really this simple? quoted from willingtocope

Quote

 "I request validation of this debt" with a copy of their letter sent CMRRR is sufficient.

 

I mean I'm cool with that, I don't introduce anything that could hurt myself other than a letter coming from my address but they already have that.

This one(external link) seems kind of extreme about "defamation of character and such" but I like that it mentions "Prove that you are within SOL"

Quote

Proof that the Statute of Limitations has not expired on this account

Thanks

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So this is my current thought process, I am the reader's guinea pig.

  • SOL from NY will probably be applied/considered if not 5 year KS SOL, so my 3years+ from last account date won't help me there
  • DV can hopefully buy me a little bit of time, but can draw attention to myself
  • While it would not be impossible to pay the amount in full(means taking out more credit, not sure actually if I have it, not all my accounts are zeroed at this time)
    • probably best to setup a payment plan
  • Do I talk to CBCS or USAA? I imagine CBCS unless I can talk to USAA and have them "take it back"

I'm still researching. The DV letter people said it's as simple as "prove this debt" but the samples I look at do that listing of "prove these things/provide" which I'm told they don't have to... so I'm not sure.

I think my plan will be:

  • Send DV letter(after deciding on which one) CMRRR
  • Talk to USAA(after receiving validation letter?) to verify from their end that it's assigned to this CA(not sure what good this will do)
  • If/when CBCS responds, work out payment plan

I think this one of those cases where you're fighting the OC not a JDB in the event of a lawsuit and I can do the slow payback of monthly payments(though it would be like a car payment or something in amount)

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On 8/6/2018 at 8:12 PM, he_who_is_poor said:

This one(external link) seems kind of extreme about "defamation of character and such" but I like that it mentions "Prove that you are within SOL" 

Debt collectors are not required to provide detailed documentation to validate a debt.  They also don't have to prove that they have the right to collect or that the debt is within the SOL. 

If the debt were outside the SOL, they might have to include a statement in the collection letter that they can't sue you for it.

This provision is not intended to give a debtor a detailed accounting of debt to be collected. Instead, "[c]onsistent with the legislative history, verification is only intended to eliminate the problem of debt collectors dunning the wrong person or attempting to collect debts which the consumer has already paid." Maynard v. Cannon, 401 F. App’x 389, 396 (10th Cir. 2010) (see Chaudry v. Gallerizzo, 174 F.3d 394, 406 (4th Cir. 1999)).

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5 minutes ago, BV80 said:
 

If the debt were outside the SOL, they might have to include a statement that they can't sue you for it.

This is an interesting point. I've seen that Midland does it(mention the "we can't sue you") though I don't really understand. The amount is low(relatively) just over $700 for that debt. These cards all defaulted about the same time when I became jobless. So it's curious why that account isn't suable. All originating from NY and receiving communications in MO/KS.

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8 minutes ago, he_who_is_poor said:

This is an interesting point. I've seen that Midland does it(mention the "we can't sue you") though I don't really understand. The amount is low just over $700 for that debt. These cards all defaulted about the same time when I became jobless. So it's curious why that account isn't suable. All originating from NY and receiving communications in MO/KS.

In which state were you living when the account went into default?

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I would just say ignore it and try not to stress. I may be in the minority, but since everyone stopped violating, the only thing a DV request does is tell them that they found the right person at an actual address. Trying to "scare" them with talk of arbitration or SOL has no effect since it's probably not even read by a person with any authority, if it's even read by a person.

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1 minute ago, BV80 said:

In which state were you living when the account went into default?

NY, which has an SOL I believe of 6 years, so I assume I don't have SOL argument on my side.

I think I know what I have to do: DV > Payment Plan = no lawsuit?

As from what I've read here, dealing with OC is harder than JDB in court and the sum if split up, I could afford and the benefit(of not being blacklisted) is a plus. Though my credit is destroyed and I can't seem to budge it at this time. the defaulted cards are only 20% of the total debt(other is student loans). Not related but if PFD were a thing/possible maybe it would help, thankfully credit score is not a huge issue for me at this time, I was able to secure a place to live. Sorry rambling.

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17 minutes ago, Goody_Ouchless said:

I would just say ignore it and try not to stress. I may be in the minority, but since everyone stopped violating, the only thing a DV request does is tell them that they found the right person at an actual address. Trying to "scare" them with talk of arbitration or SOL has no effect since it's probably not even read by a person with any authority, if it's even read by a person.

This is something on my mind too. I don't deny the "paying back, not blacklisted and not sued" as positive things. However there is also no return on my behalf regarding credit score, I just lose money.

I think I can afford to do the DV > Set up payment plan, though delaying it for a bit like a month or two could help.

However since it's dealing with OC and the issue of incurring the debt from out of state, and trying to avoid court/garnishment in general... I could just eat the bullet/pay.

 

edit: I've also read on forums(possibly here) that CBCS (often?) doesn't respond/validate so yeah. I don't know. Maybe it's a basis/defense at least if I have that checkbox checked of having sent... but what if it wasn't "the right address?"

Crap there's also:

Quote

That information is the verification, and if that information was in the letter they initially sent you, they've met their obligation.

Being the initial info of amount/creditor and the 30 days stuff(which I have all of this info) so maybe a DV isn't even necessary/would do anything.

I could/will have double activity on this account. The original by USAA saying account is charged off, then something from CBCS saying it's being collected on/in collections hmm.

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Well, after much reading, it seems that what they sent me is already enough for validation eg. named the OC, creditor account number(last 4), exact amount owed.

I will still send the DV, maybe buys me time. I'll most likely confirm with USAA if they did in fact hire CBCS to collect on it.

Then I'll work out a payment plan hopefully to avoid the whole lawsuit thing. I'm not sure if they'd even give me the chance initially without going straight into a lawsuit.

I'm not really concerned on the reporting at this stage as my credit is still destroyed, although I wonder if I would get two reports on it(the charge off, then collection) which actually when I think about it, that's how other accounts worked.

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44 minutes ago, he_who_is_poor said:

Well, after much reading, it seems that what they sent me is already enough for validation eg. named the OC, creditor account number(last 4), exact amount owed.

I will still send the DV, maybe buys me time. I'll most likely confirm with USAA if they did in fact hire CBCS to collect on it.

Then I'll work out a payment plan hopefully to avoid the whole lawsuit thing. I'm not sure if they'd even give me the chance initially without going straight into a lawsuit.

I'm not really concerned on the reporting at this stage as my credit is still destroyed, although I wonder if I would get two reports on it(the charge off, then collection) which actually when I think about it, that's how other accounts worked.

No matter what information is provided in the initial communication, it cannot validate a debt.   If you send a DV and they want to continue collection efforts, they have to validate.

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3 minutes ago, BV80 said:

No matter what information is provided in the initial communication, it cannot validate a debt.   If you send a DV and they want to continue collection efforts, they have to validate.

Alright. I'll post whatever happens. I'm still not free, fear of losing job etc... oh well.

Thanks

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