williams4

Being sued Unifund

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3 minutes ago, Goody_Ouchless said:

But this case has nothing to do with ownership or payment of a debt. Only your FDCPA claims. I think you're fine - goal, at this point, seems to be getting another bill sent to Unifund. Seems perfectly reasonable to request extensive hearings on the 22K documentation, by explaining that there is clearly a very large gap in both sides understanding of the case. (Of course that misunderstanding is only on one side, but if she's so adamant, then maybe everyone should come to your town to hash it out in person...)

 

But the one IN arbitration IS the 3K one and not the 22K one.  And the arbitrator already said he will only decide the account in this case number.  I think I am still confused on how arbitration works.  So we had our preliminary hearing and he already has deadlines for my brief, her response, my response to her brief and its closed.  The part I am confused about is can there still be a chance of discovery and stuff or is this just it.  I have my brief to explain everything in this case and that's it? Or if since we had our preliminary hearing and discovery was not discussed, there will be no discovery or anything?

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There's nothing there that says they have to prove ownership. 

Fist will know, but it seems to me that the plan should be to discuss the wrong account stuff until Unifund finally decides to stop paying. Otherwise arbiter may say "OK, it's all clear, no FDCPA violation, have a nice day." At that point Unifund may be angry/emboldened enough to chase their losses and follow to the other case.

 

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2 minutes ago, williams4 said:

But the one IN arbitration IS the 3K one and not the 22K one. 

Right - you know that, we know that, but Unifund doesn't know that. I would probably play dumb and say "I'm concerned about how adamant Unifund is, so let's get together and hash this out." Your only goal in arbitration is to cost them so much money that they give up. The sooner this gets cleared up (which it will) the better it is for Unifund. Frivolity goes out the window, because the only reason the case will get dragged out is because of their own mistakes.

 

 

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27 minutes ago, williams4 said:

I sent a letter stating this account is disputed and need validation

 

27 minutes ago, williams4 said:

If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor,

 

27 minutes ago, williams4 said:

the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector.

27 minutes ago, williams4 said:

And they only sent back some credit card statements and a letter stating Citibank is the original owner and Unifund has acquired the account. 

What did they fail to do according (b) Disputed debts?

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2 minutes ago, Brotherskeeper said:

 

 

What did they fail to do according (b) Disputed debts?

This is what I was confused about. Because I DON’T have a fdcpa violation. Our citi agreement about arbitration says all claim are subject to arbitration no matter what the theory. So even though I DON’T have a fdcpa violation I did send a validation letter asking for them to send documentation that they own (have) rights to collect on my account. (Specifically asked for bill of sale/assignment, some kind of proof) they do have rights to my account. And they did not send it. So even if I don’t have an actual fdcpa violation against them, I have a claim that I asked them to provide documentation that they have rights to collect on my account and they didn’t, so I bring it to arbitration to work out the dispute between us. 

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12 minutes ago, Goody_Ouchless said:

Right - you know that, we know that, but Unifund doesn't know that. I would probably play dumb and say "I'm concerned about how adamant Unifund is, so let's get together and hash this out." Your only goal in arbitration is to cost them so much money that they give up. The sooner this gets cleared up (which it will) the better it is for Unifund. Frivolity goes out the window, because the only reason the case will get dragged out is because of their own mistakes.

 

 

So the arbitrator gave us deadlines. By April 29 I am to provide my brief, one week later unifunds response is due and two weeks later my response is due (May 20) and it’s closed. It says arbitrator will make his decision by June 20. So even though these deadlines are set, this could change depending on how the case proceeds?  And IF unifund brings up summary judgment for the 3k in her response, is that considered written permission from the arbitrator or no?

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I reread the AAA rules (for the 2 millionth time) So I CAN add new claims but need to file under R-8 (aaa). So these date the arbitrator set can very well change? I freaked out when I saw them and thought that meant no option for discovery or anything.  I get it now.  In my head I was thinking I can't drag this out because we have a month to get everything squared away!

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Okay, this is @BV80's area, and it may be a stretch, but if Unifund is not the legal owner of or doesn't have assignment rights to collect the debt, or the amount of the debt is inaccurate, then maybe a "plausible" non-frivilous claim of a violation of :

§ 807.  False or misleading representations
A debt collector may not use any false, deceptive, or misleading representation or means in connection with the collection of any debt. Without limiting the general application of the foregoing, the following conduct is a violation of this section:

(2) The false representation of --

(A) the character, amount, or legal status of any debt; or

(B) any services rendered or compensation which may be lawfully received by any debt collector for the collection of a debt.

(5) The threat to take any action that cannot legally be taken or that is not intended to be taken.

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30 minutes ago, williams4 said:

This is what I was confused about. Because I DON’T have a fdcpa violation.

I've mentioned, it feels like a dozen time, that your FDCPA claim is for the phone calls after you sent a C&D.  @Brotherskeeper even laid it out nicely above.  Your proof would be printouts of a screenshot of your phone's call log showing the missed calls when they contacted you and a copy of the C&D letter you sent them.

If this were me, I would forget everything up to this point.  I would type up a brief on this FDCPA violation and include your proof.  That is ALL I would submit right now.  Then, I would sit back and watch the sewage show begin. :) 

When the attorney files HER brief, which will inevitably include claims for $22k, you will file an objection IMMEDIATELY (same day).  Your objection will state that as previously discussed, the account for the $22k is already involved in a separate AAA case.  Provide a copy of the AAA letter accepting that case AND the court order as evidence with your objection.  Ask that her counter claim for $22k be stricken from this case and relegated to the proper court-ordered AAA case.

At this point, the arbitrator will hopefully strike her counter claim and your case will proceed with only your FDCPA claim as the only item for the arbitrator to decide on.  It won't matter if he rules against you at this point, since an award of $0 still sticks Unifund with the final bill and maybe only then will the attorney suddenly figure out what's going on.

17 minutes ago, williams4 said:

So I CAN add new claims but need to file under R-8 (aaa)

Your arbitrator already said no new claims.  So unfortunately (or actually fortunately), that is that.  This is fine, because as stated above, this also means the attorney can not now add in the 3k counter claim.   The ONLY thing you need to do is file your brief.  After that, you need to object and cause a commotion when they try to bring in the $22k claim.  Ask for everything in your objection.  Ask for a discovery hearing.  Ask for a phone hearing for your objection.

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5 minutes ago, Brotherskeeper said:

Okay, this is @BV80's area, and it may be a stretch, but if Unifund is not the legal owner of or doesn't have assignment rights to collect the debt, or the amount of the debt is inaccurate, then maybe a "plausible" non-frivilous claim of a violation of :

§ 807.  False or misleading representations
A debt collector may not use any false, deceptive, or misleading representation or means in connection with the collection of any debt. Without limiting the general application of the foregoing, the following conduct is a violation of this section:

(2) The false representation of --

(A) the character, amount, or legal status of any debt; or

(B) any services rendered or compensation which may be lawfully received by any debt collector for the collection of a debt.

(5) The threat to take any action that cannot legally be taken or that is not intended to be taken.

They very well be the legal owner of my debt. But I don’t know that UNTIL they show me some kind of ownership (other than a letter saying unifund aquired this from citi). Is there anyway this can help right now on the 3k because they have NOT provided this (yet, this hasn’t been in court either though)  But do consumers have the right to see clear documentation of debt collectors owning a debt before they start paying this debt collector? 

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57 minutes ago, Goody_Ouchless said:

Your only goal in arbitration is to cost them so much money that they give up. 

This only works if they know they are footing the bill. Everything they have demonstrated to this point makes it clear as a bell they think OP will pick up the tab. 

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1 minute ago, Harry Seaward said:

This only works if they know they are footing the bill. Everything they have demonstrated to this point makes it clear as a bell they think OP will pick up the tab. 

This.  This is why OP's objection and response to their brief will be a very key moment.

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8 minutes ago, fisthardcheese said:

   Your arbitrator already said no new claims. 

16 minutes ago, fisthardcheese said:

I misunderstood his email. “Because no changes of claims have been filed under rule r-8, it is my intention to resolve entire claim by June 20”  So I can file under r-8 still, correct?  

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15 minutes ago, williams4 said:

They very well be the legal owner of my debt. But I don’t know that UNTIL they show me some kind of ownership (other than a letter saying unifund aquired this from citi). Is there anyway this can help right now on the 3k because they have NOT provided this (yet, this hasn’t been in court either though)  But do consumers have the right to see clear documentation of debt collectors owning a debt before they start paying this debt collector? 

This is why I asked if the $3K account was purchased by Pilot in the same pool as the $22K account: you claim that the purchase and sale agreement between Citi and Pilot doesn't allow Pilot to resell. I apologize if I'm confusing the $3K with the $22K. Consumers have the rights outlined in federal and their state consumer debt collections statutes. Once a lawsuit is filed, court rules for pleadings and discovery requests govern the documentation. In arbitration, discovery rules are less stringent to keep costs down.   

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26 minutes ago, fisthardcheese said:

This.  This is why OP's objection and response to their brief will be a very key moment.

Ok. It’s making sense now. (Pretty sure I have said that a thousand times now. Lol) So submit brief and sit back and wait for respondents response to see how I will proceed, correct?

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20 minutes ago, williams4 said:

I misunderstood his email. “Because no changes of claims have been filed under rule r-8, it is my intention to resolve entire claim by June 20”  So I can file under r-8 still, correct?  

Oh, okay.  Then in that case, file a "Motion to amend claims per Rule R-8".  I would state that "Due to claims discovered since the time of Claimant's initial Demand, Claimant requests permission under Rule R-8 to add additional claims under the federal Telephone Collection Protection Act to their Demand.  Claimant does not need additional time and can include these claims in their brief due on XXX" (whatever your due date is - and assuming you can get your TCPA claims included within that time too).

It can't hurt to try.  Also, if you can get it done in the original time frame and point out you don't need extra time, he may be more apt to allow it.

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9 minutes ago, Brotherskeeper said:

Consumers have the rights outlined in federal and their state consumer debt collections statutes.

The 3K has not been in court.   (Not arguing with you, just clarifying I am understanding what this means)  So even though I send a validation letter and it is specifically asked for some kind of proof (in a way of sale/assignment) that the debt buyer has RIGHTS to collect on my account (simply a way as a consumer to know if they are paying the right person)  they can simply send statements from my account and a letter typed out that said "we" acquired this from Citibank, correct? Because the FDCPA says they are only REQUIRED to send certain things, which they DID send Name and Address of original CC and statements.  I am in no way arguing, just making sure I am comprehending what you were saying.

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9 minutes ago, fisthardcheese said:

Claimant requests permission under Rule R-8 to add additional claims under the federal Telephone Collection Protection Act to their Demand.  

I just want to make sure I am understanding the TCPA violation. The TPCA rule that says something about “do not call list” is the rule they are violating, correct? By calling when I said no more calls. 

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On 4/10/2019 at 11:33 PM, Clydesmom said:

You have a MAJOR problem.  This is NOT an FDCPA violation.  There is no such thing as a partial cease and desist under the FDCPA.  The "all calls are inconvenient only communicate with my by mail" is an outdated statement they know can't be held against them.  Under the FDCPA they can ignore it or treat it as a full cease and desist.  Citing that as their FDCPA violation is why they are calling your claim frivolous.  

@fisthardcheese I am still uncertain the “call” thing is an fdcpa violation? I haven’t cited anything for my fdcpa claim yet. There response was just going off my filing form. 

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1 hour ago, Harry Seaward said:

This only works if they know they are footing the bill. Everything they have demonstrated to this point makes it clear as a bell they think OP will pick up the tab. 

I would argue that another bill from AAA to Unifund may trigger an accounting review that results in "WTF ARE YOU DOING???!!!"

(and if Unifund is laboring under that delusion, perhaps OP can have arbiter confirm to both parties what the final tally will look like, under terms of Consumer Minimum Standards - or AAA's equivalent verbiage.)

 

 

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49 minutes ago, williams4 said:

The 3K has not been in court.   (Not arguing with you, just clarifying I am understanding what this means)

Right. The $3K documentation (copies of Citi monthly statements, name of original creditor and Unifund as current owner) you got from Unifund was in response to your debt validation letter--not as a result of any court filings. 

49 minutes ago, williams4 said:

So even though I send a validation letter and it is specifically asked for some kind of proof (in a way of sale/assignment) that the debt buyer has RIGHTS to collect on my account (simply a way as a consumer to know if they are paying the right person)  they can simply send statements from my account and a letter typed out that said "we" acquired this from Citibank, correct? Because the FDCPA says they are only REQUIRED to send certain things, which they DID send Name and Address of original CC and statements.  I am in no way arguing, just making sure I am comprehending what you were saying.

Right. Under the FDCPA and/or Indiana consumer debt collection laws, Unifund is required to provide only what the statutes state in order to comply with the applicable laws and not expose the collector to a lawsuit by you for a violation. Unifund is free to provide more documentation to your validation request than the laws require. I doubt Unifund would think that copies of Citi monthly statements (with your name, address, account number) acquired in the sale would be viewed by you as suspect. 

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23 minutes ago, williams4 said:

@fisthardcheese I am still uncertain the “call” thing is an fdcpa violation? I haven’t cited anything for my fdcpa claim yet. There response was just going off my filing form. 

1692c

(c) Ceasing communication
If a consumer notifies a debt collector in writing that the consumer refuses to pay a debt or that the consumer wishes the debt collector to cease further communication with the consumer, the debt collector shall not communicate further with the consumer with respect to such debt, except --

(1) to advise the consumer that the debt collector's further efforts are being terminated;

(2) to notify the consumer that the debt collector or creditor may invoke specified remedies which are ordinarily invoked by such debt collector or creditor; or

(3) where applicable, to notify the consumer that the debt collector or creditor intends to invoke a specified remedy.

If such notice from the consumer is made by mail, notification shall be complete upon receipt.

 

Did you send a C&D and they continued to call you?  That would be an FDCPA violation, for the 9000 time.   You already asserted "FDCPA violation" in  your demand, so your brief should include this part of the FDCPA as what they violated.  In addition I would motion to additional claims like I stated above.

You MUST READ these statues and corresponding case laws.  The TCPA is triggered when you said stop calling and they called your CELL PHONE. A statutory $500 PER CALL is allowed to be awarded for those violations.

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2 hours ago, fisthardcheese said:

 

Did you send a C&D and they continued to call you?  That would be an FDCPA violation, for the 9000 time.   You already asserted "FDCPA violation" in  your demand, so your brief should include this part of the FDCPA as what they violated.  In addition I would motion to additional claims like I stated above.

 

For the FDCPA and TCPA claims I need more information from them to "prove" it.  When I submit my brief with the evidence I have (which won't be enough to prove until I ask for a log of their phone records of calls to me) Is is my job to say something in my brief that I need discovery time to obtain the records? Because as of right now, there isn't a time scheduled for discovery.  I am just wondering "when" discovery comes into play and if I need to request it in my brief or how I do that?

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20 minutes ago, williams4 said:

until I ask for a log of their phone records of calls to me

You don't have a call log on your cell phone? Arbitration doesn't usually allow 'invasive' discovery, so proving this is going to be difficult if you don't have your own evidence. 

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What happens when the arbiter finally realizes, as he may already have, that Unifund doesn't know where they are or what they are defending? Can they continue the proceedings, with that realization?  

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