williams4

Being sued Unifund

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6 hours ago, Harry Seaward said:

Here's the bottom line. Assuming the agreement between Citi and Pilot is what you think it is, I think you have a fair chance of successfully arguing unifund bought a pile of worthless paper. But I think it's a mistake to try to wedge yourself into the Citi/Pilot agreement.

Asssuming when I get the bill of sale agreement and it does include the part about not reselling debt, I wonder if sending the consent order from cfpb to citi would help prove that cfpb did this to prevent debt buyers from reselling debts and pilot chose to resell anyway. This way I am not wedging myself into the citi/pilot agreement, but it would give a clearer picture to the arbitrator as to why this is in the citi/pilot agreement?

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In regards to combining cases, if they attempt to do this, I would strongly object and then if they respond to your objection with counter arguments I would ask for a hearing on the matter.  I would find cases where the Citi Card Agreement (either by the OC or a JDB) was used to get out of class action suits and forced into individual arbitration.  Also the card agreement itself states in very plain, clear language that all claims are to proceed on an individual basis.  This means you MUST have two different individual cases per account.

In regards to the assignment issue and consent agreement with the CFPB, I would bring up all of the arguments you have on it in arbitration (if it gets that far).  Ask for lots of discovery regarding their agreement with the CFPB and then spend a whole day laying out your argument on it. This is how you use the arbitration method to get a favorable settlement.

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On 2/21/2019 at 9:01 PM, Harry Seaward said:

AAA has no rule prohibiting joinder of claims. Citi combined two lawsuits into one AAA case despite my protests. I believe JAMS rules are also silent on the issue.

Just curious @Harry Seaward, did they just automatically combine yours or did they ask you? I just received an email from the case manager asking if the second demand for arbitration was to amend the amount on the first claim or if it was a separate claim. I of course said separate claim. Wondering if this means it will for sure be two separate claims or if they can still combine them? 

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On 3/11/2019 at 3:37 PM, williams4 said:

Wondering if this means it will for sure be two separate claims or if they can still combine them?  

AAA can do whatever they want.  And they will almost certainly combine them.  That would not stop me from submitting my strong objections, however, for the record.

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On 2/23/2019 at 8:54 PM, williams4 said:

Asssuming when I get the bill of sale agreement and it does include the part about not reselling debt, I wonder if sending the consent order from cfpb to citi would help prove that cfpb did this to prevent debt buyers from reselling debts and pilot chose to resell anyway. This way I am not wedging myself into the citi/pilot agreement, but it would give a clearer picture to the arbitrator as to why this is in the citi/pilot agreement?

Hello .  I had an informal hearing the other day and the judge decided to hear Unifunds motion for Summary Judgment but denied it and set a date for trial. At this meeting I gave the judge a copy of the Consent Order you refer to and essentially the judge and the other attorney were in agreement that the Order meant nothing to me as it was an agreement between Citibank and Pilot and it was signed by the Director of the CFPB (not a judge I guess ) I told the judge I don't completely understand but at the very least, assuming Citibank is compliant,  it calls into question the validity of the chain of assignment but any questions could clearly be resolved by seeing the Terms & Conditions of the original bill of sale and the actual Assignment Agreements. He asked the attorney if he had any proof that I made any payments on the account, even just one, and when the attorney said no the Judge told him he'll have to try to prove that I made at least one payment and show a valid assignment . I'm a little miffed that it seemed the Judge completely blew off the order and that to him and the attorney it was a meaningless stack of papers because  it clearly calls into question Pilot or any other assignee's right to resell . He went out of his way to give the jdb attorney tremendous leeway and enormous amounts of opportunity to present his garbage. (of course they seemed to know each other well I might add). Where do you stand with your use of the Consent Order in your case? (I am sorry if this was not submitted in the right place) 

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6 hours ago, ncs1969 said:

Hello .  I had an informal hearing the other day and the judge decided to hear Unifunds motion for Summary Judgment but denied it and set a date for trial. At this meeting I gave the judge a copy of the Consent Order you refer to and essentially the judge and the other attorney were in agreement that the Order meant nothing to me as it was an agreement between Citibank and Pilot and it was signed by the Director of the CFPB (not a judge I guess ) I told the judge I don't completely understand but at the very least, assuming Citibank is compliant,  it calls into question the validity of the chain of assignment but any questions could clearly be resolved by seeing the Terms & Conditions of the original bill of sale and the actual Assignment Agreements. He asked the attorney if he had any proof that I made any payments on the account, even just one, and when the attorney said no the Judge told him he'll have to try to prove that I made at least one payment and show a valid assignment . I'm a little miffed that it seemed the Judge completely blew off the order and that to him and the attorney it was a meaningless stack of papers because  it clearly calls into question Pilot or any other assignee's right to resell . He went out of his way to give the jdb attorney tremendous leeway and enormous amounts of opportunity to present his garbage. (of course they seemed to know each other well I might add). Where do you stand with your use of the Consent Order in your case? (I am sorry if this was not submitted in the right place) 

I am still at the very beginning of arbitration and it hasn't "officially" started yet.  But the CBFC consent order doesn't directly have anything to do with you.  However, CITI's CBFC consent order says that Citi has to put that the buyer cannot resell the accounts they are buying from Citi (in the agreement for the Bill of Sale).  If they did not put this in the terms and conditions (between Citi and Pilot), then Citi is in violation of a consent order from CBFC, meaning CBFC would fine Citi or whatever for being in violation. So even though there were ordered from the CBFC to put it in there, there is nothing you can do use that as an argument on your account now. You can just file a complaint with CBFC and Citi would just get in trouble from the CBFC.  BUT if they did put it in their terms and agreement (between Citi and Pilot) and Pilot sold the account, the question is does Unifund really own your debt or not, since Pilot was not allowed to sell the account.  And even if Pilot and Unifund are the same entity, this seems irrelevant since the terms and conditions between Citi and Pilot say they cannot resell the account, except to sell it back to Citi.  And there is a bill of sale after Pilot bought it.   But you would need to get the terms and agreement between Citi and Pilot to see if it's in it or not to be able to use that as an argument in your case.

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4 minutes ago, williams4 said:

And even if Pilot and Unifund are the same entity, this seems irrelevant since the terms and conditions between Citi and Pilot say they cannot resell the account, except to sell it back to Citi.

What we've seen is them being extra careful. We saw one case with what seemed like half a dozen bills of sale, but they were all just for accounting purposed within the same organization. 

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9 minutes ago, Goody_Ouchless said:

What we've seen is them being extra careful. We saw one case with what seemed like half a dozen bills of sale, but they were all just for accounting purposed within the same organization. 

Even if it's just for accounting purposes, it's a Bill of Sale so they sold the account.  And the Bill of Sale between Pilot and Distressed states Pilot is selling ALL rights without recourse to Distressed.  So  even if Pilot, Distressed Asset Portfolio and Unifund are all under the same organization, they are still each a separate LLC.  And in the terms and conditions I found online that I "think" might be the updated terms and conditions for Citi selling accounts to debt buyers (not completely sure and won't know until I have Unifund provide the actual terms) it says the debt buyer may not assign or transfer any of its rights or obligations.  And the first Bill of Sale after Pilot buys it states they are selling all their rights.

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9 hours ago, fisthardcheese said:

AAA can do whatever they want.  And they will almost certainly combine them.  That would not stop me from submitting my strong objections, however, for the record.

Do they usually combine them once the arbitrator is assigned? As of right now, the case manager told unifund they are two separate claims and they need to submit the $3050 by March 28. But I assume that could change once they get an arbitrator assigned?

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20 hours ago, ncs1969 said:

He went out of his way to give the jdb attorney tremendous leeway and enormous amounts of opportunity to present his garbage.

This is why arbitration is the best strategy over court.

12 hours ago, williams4 said:

Do they usually combine them once the arbitrator is assigned? As of right now, the case manager told unifund they are two separate claims and they need to submit the $3050 by March 28. But I assume that could change once they get an arbitrator assigned?

There is no "usual" in arbitration.  Everything is completely up to the arbitrator and will be, well, arbitrary to his whims and your ability to sway him.  The fact that the case manager is charging them double the filing fee is in your favor.  They may settle before an arbitrator is chosen to even find out if they can combine the cases.

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We are in the process of scheduling the initial arbitration conference hearing.  It might be tomorrow, haven't received confirmation yet.  But in one of the emails Unifund asked AAA if they received the exhibits they sent to them.  I have emailed AAA/Unifund twice saying I have not received any exhibits from the Respondent.   I am assuming it was there answer or counterclaim, but have no clue since I didn't receive anything.  So if it was an answer or counterclaim, I didn't get a chance to respond.  Will this effect the initial conference hearing?  What can I do if I find out at the conference hearing there was an answer or counterclaim that I didn't receive? I just want to be prepared to know what to say if something is brought up that I did not receive.  Objection? But then what will happen? I am just so confused. @fisthardcheese

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This one got so confusing, but are we seeing the first time a debt buyer is following through with arbitration? That could be a sea change.

 

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1 hour ago, Goody_Ouchless said:
 

This one got so confusing, but are we seeing the first time a debt buyer is following through with arbitration? That could be a sea change.

 

Yes. But I have 2 cases in arbitration. 1 has a court order to go to arbitration and the other does not.  They paid the one that does not have a court order (and only about $3500 ish) but have not paid the court ordered one yet (which is 22K ish) Which I am sure will be able to be combined, but has not been combined yet.   So they have paid $3050 (which will be more as arbitration proceeds) on a debt for $3500 ish.

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5 minutes ago, williams4 said:

They paid the one that does not have a court order (and only about $3500 ish) but have not paid the court ordered one yet (which is 22K ish)

Did you allege claims against Unifund on either of these cases? If only one, which one? 

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The $3500 one, yes.  The $22K that was in court I simply put FDCPA violation because that's what the "up to date info page" said to put if you didn't know. 

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26 minutes ago, Harry Seaward said:

Did you allege claims against Unifund on either of these cases? If only one, which one? 

Oh and on the $22K one from court, when I originally filed with AAA I did not pay the filing fee.  Since they closed the AAA case before my MTC was granted, AAA had me file a new claim and reference the previous claim number that was closed.  And I attached the court order as instructed by AAA. And the letters from AAA telling Unifund they owe their portion states that this case is a court ordered case.

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12 minutes ago, williams4 said:

The $3500 one, yes.

Did unifund ever contact you to settle before paying their arb fees? 

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1 minute ago, Harry Seaward said:
 

Did unifund ever contact you to settle before paying their arb fees? 

No. The only communication between me and unifund has been from the court documents and arbitration emails because we have to include all parties. Replying to the message she sent to me and aaa where she asks if aaa received the legal memo and exhibits I replied asking if these are documents  I should have received too, and if so I haven’t received anything, no response.  Which I am assuming are from the other case because the case number she was asking about has not been in court. So I don’t know what legal documents she could be referring to. And could be why she won’t answer me or send me the papers so she can play it off at the conference hearing as if she didn’t know this wasn’t that case. Just from dealing with her in the court system, she uses a lot of “I didn’t know” and “I wasn’t aware”.  She definitely knows these are two seperate cases because the case manager told her there are two cases and she needs to pay on the second one and it has a court order. But I am sure she will still play dumb at the conference hearing. 

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I am clueless on what to expect at this conference hearing.  I have read up online and was trying to figure out if it will really matter it she answered/sent a counterclaim/sent in exhibits without sending them to me.  From what I read, I would have 15 days to respond to any answer/counterclaim respondent sent in?  So if I don't find out about any of the stuff that was sent until the day of the conference hearing (even after saying multiple times I have not received anything) I am wondering if I could ask that there be another hearing hearing scheduled since I was not sent the documents and was not allowed my 15 days to respond?  Or if the answer/counterclaim is irrelevant to the conference hearing?

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I am just getting so frustrated that I am not getting a response to my emails asking about these documents, even though I "shouldn't" have to even be asking for them since anything about the case is supposed to be communicated between all parties.  I am just trying to figure out what recourse for not following the rules I can ask for.

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I wouldn't worry about it much. Mostly because it's all academic at this point. I'd let it ride until the hearing and show you tried to the the info. The arbitrator should schedule another hearing, at Unifund's cost. 

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This is the strangest case since that goofy one with the seven business loans where plaintiff agreed to arb, but then wanted defendant to front the money.

 

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13 hours ago, Goody_Ouchless said:

This one got so confusing, but are we seeing the first time a debt buyer is following through with arbitration? That could be a sea change.

 

We have seen a few times where a JDB attorney pays the filing fees because they are unaware that there will be another set of bills to come shortly after.  This is likely one of those cases.

7 hours ago, williams4 said:

I am clueless on what to expect at this conference hearing.  I have read up online and was trying to figure out if it will really matter it she answered/sent a counterclaim/sent in exhibits without sending them to me.  From what I read, I would have 15 days to respond to any answer/counterclaim respondent sent in?  So if I don't find out about any of the stuff that was sent until the day of the conference hearing (even after saying multiple times I have not received anything) I am wondering if I could ask that there be another hearing hearing scheduled since I was not sent the documents and was not allowed my 15 days to respond?  Or if the answer/counterclaim is irrelevant to the conference hearing?

Don't sweat it.  First off, in arbitration you are not required to respond to any claims since a no response is the same as a denial.  Second, this is only a conference call to set up discovery and hearing dates, and the arbitrator may ask both sides to send a statement of claims, especially if you filed something generic like "FDCPA violations".  This is the time where you will have to submit a real claim or withdraw your generic claim if you don't have anything solid to present.  When and if the other side speaks about their claims, you can tell the arbitrator that you have not received any such claims and wish to preserve your right to timely object to anything that may be in their claims once you actually see a copy of them.  The arbitrator will order them to provide a copy.  The only other thing to prepare for this call is to have some dates in mind for the final hearing.  I would look at about 3 months from now and find the best 2 or 3 days you can tell the arbitrator which work for you.

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